Some potential Cross-Country Routes

[RobShipway]

Of course the fact that both previously semi fast services are stopping every station to West Worthing bar one means that the semi fast paths are now available.


Unless someone orders ñew stock to replace the 313s those services are gone for good. I often use a peak Brighton to Southampton service it's full but I wouldn't describe it as overcrowded. What's putting people off the cross country service is the use of semi derelict, short formed trains of 165/6 stock.

As JonathanH has explained above there is not the paths out of Brighton either westbound or northbound for any XC service to be installed. Anyway, why would you want to go west to then be travelling northwards to the Midlands? This would take longer than travelling through London and you would not get many passengers. One of the reasons why the XC services was cancelled from Brighton, was not just that the paths where needed for Thameslink services, it was also down to the fact that there was not enough patronage demand for the services. This has been discussed many times in these forums over the years since XC cancelled the services from Brighton.

 

[paul1609]

As JonathanH has explained above there is not the paths out of Brighton either westbound or northbound for any XC service to be installed. Anyway, why would you want to go west to then be travelling northwards to the Midlands? This would take longer than travelling through London and you would not get many passengers. One of the reasons why the XC services was cancelled from Brighton, was not just that the paths where needed for Thameslink services, it was also down to the fact that there was not enough patronage demand for the services. This has been discussed many times in these forums over the years since XC cancelled the services from Brighton.

It wasn't me that was arguing for intercity services from Brighton. I'm just pointing out that it's no longer true that there's no paths.

 

[JonathanH]

It wasn't me that was arguing for intercity services from Brighton. I'm just pointing out that it's no longer true that there's no paths.

I dont think anything has changed. The trains now essentially use both the 'West Worthing' path and the semi-fast path, rather than separate trains running.

 

[paul1609]

I dont think anything has changed. The trains now essentially use both the 'West Worthing' path and the semi-fast path, rather than separate trains running.

that means there's only 4tph between Hove and Arundel Junction now off peak.
The GWR trains/ charter/freight path is free all the way to Southampton.
There's extra free paths at Havant due to the Portsmouth direct reductions. There's extra free paths at Southampton to Reading because of xc reductions.

 

[317 forever]

I opened this thread expecting to see Liverpool & Brighton…... Always seems to come around even after a few months without mention.

Or even, a service from New Brighton to Brighton via Liverpool Central, Chester, Crewe, Atherstone, Watford Junction, Kensington Olympia and East Croydon using dual-voltage electrical multiple-units.

This is just the routing rather than specific stops.

 

[6Gman]

Or even, a service from New Brighton to Brighton via Liverpool Central, Chester, Crewe, Atherstone, Watford Junction, Kensington Olympia and East Croydon using dual-voltage electrical multiple-units.

This is just the routing rather than specific stops.

And, better still, that would allow the forum to debate the merits of how to electrify Chester to Crewe !

Again.

 

[Bevan Price]

My ideal network would require much more extensive electrification, and a unified rail passenger operator. Each line involved would retain at least one train per hour, but with some changes of destination from hour to hour.

So, for example for trains though Birmingham:
Manchester - Birmingham hourly, then in alternate hours to Reading/Bournemouth or Bristol / Plymouth.
Liverpool - Birmingham hourly, then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
(Those Liverpool services would call only at Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford & Wolverhampton before Birmingham)

York - Leeds - Sheffield - Birmingham hourly then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
That combination would give 2 tph from Birmingham to both Bournemouth & Plymouth
(Between Birmingham & Bristol, they would call only at Cheltenham & Bristol Parkway)

Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby = Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford semi-fast. 1 tph
Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Cardiff - Swansea semi-fast, 1 tph

Birmingham - Bristol stopping train, calling at University, Bromsgove and all stations via Gloucester. At least 1 tph, maybe 2 tph at Peaks.
Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford stopping train, 1 tph (as now), but possibly extended to Newport & Cardiff.
(Great Malvern) - Worcester - Bristol - Weston Super Mare stopping train, all stations via Gloucester 1 tph

Birmingham - Leicester - Peterborough hourly, then in alternate hours to Norwich & Yarmouth or Cambridge.
(East of Peterborough, these would alternate with Liverpool/Manchester services.)

Liverpool - Birmingham stopping service, hourly, calling at South Parkway & all stations to Wolverhamton, plus Galton Bridge.
Manchester - Birmingham stopping service, hourly, calling all stations via Stoke to Wolverhamton, plus Galton Bridge.

It is assumed that it would be after 2030/2035 before such changes could be adopted and new stock would be required. All trains would be at least 5 or 7 coaches, preferably without wasting space on underused 1st Class.

 

[leytongabriel]

My ideal network would require much more extensive electrification, and a unified rail passenger operator. Each line involved would retain at least one train per hour, but with some changes of destination from hour to hour.

So, for example for trains though Birmingham:
Manchester - Birmingham hourly, then in alternate hours to Reading/Bournemouth or Bristol / Plymouth.
Liverpool - Birmingham hourly, then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
(Those Liverpool services would call only at Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford & Wolverhampton before Birmingham)

York - Leeds - Sheffield - Birmingham hourly then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham then as above to Bournemouth or Plymouth.
That combination would give 2 tph from Birmingham to both Bournemouth & Plymouth
(Between Birmingham & Bristol, they would call only at Cheltenham & Bristol Parkway)

Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby = Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford semi-fast. 1 tph
Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Cardiff - Swansea semi-fast, 1 tph

Birmingham - Bristol stopping train, calling at University, Bromsgove and all stations via Gloucester. At least 1 tph, maybe 2 tph at Peaks.
Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford stopping train, 1 tph (as now), but possibly extended to Newport & Cardiff.
(Great Malvern) - Worcester - Bristol - Weston Super Mare stopping train, all stations via Gloucester 1 tph

Birmingham - Leicester - Peterborough hourly, then in alternate hours to Norwich & Yarmouth or Cambridge.
(East of Peterborough, these would alternate with Liverpool/Manchester services.)

Liverpool - Birmingham stopping service, hourly, calling at South Parkway & all stations to Wolverhamton, plus Galton Bridge.
Manchester - Birmingham stopping service, hourly, calling all stations via Stoke to Wolverhamton, plus Galton Bridge.

It is assumed that it would be after 2030/2035 before such changes could be adopted and new stock would be required. All trains would be at least 5 or 7 coaches, preferably without wasting space on underused 1st Class.

Wouldn't that 2tph to both Bournmouth and Plymouth be a bit generous?

 

[JonathanH]

Wouldn't that 2tph to both Bournmouth and Plymouth be a bit generous?

Not to mention impractical.