Sounding the horn for crossings?

[Alarmkid23]

mods note - split from this thread

i absolutely HATE the 755s with a passion for their HORRIBLE Horn tones! they sound AWFULL on the ears at ANY distance, and will as a result take Decibel recordings at Darsham in Suffolk and will need Both tones sounded (Low then Hi tone for 1.5 seconds each tone with a slight pause in between on the Ipswich bound platform Before Pulling away ( if anyone on this forum drives 755s on east suffolk line from lowerstoft-ipswich let me know as i can then give you a estimate of our arrival time as we NEED the recordings done to feed back to stadler)

i will be taking Decibel Readings next saturday but My time of arrival at darsham TBC.

 

[transportphoto]

i absolutely HATE the 755s with a passion for their HORRIBLE Horn tones! they sound AWFULL on the ears at ANY distance, and will as a result take Decibel recordings at Darsham in Suffolk and will need Both tones sounded (Low then Hi tone for 1.5 seconds each tone with a slight pause in between on the Ipswich bound platform Before Pulling away ( if anyone on this forum drives 755s on east suffolk line from lowerstoft-ipswich let me know as i can then give you a estimate of our arrival time as we NEED the recordings done to feed back to stadler)

You’ve got me curious - is this pre-arranged work you doing with Stadler, or is this a noise complaint or similar?

If it’s not routine for the horn to be sounded before pulling away from any given station, the likelihood of a driver sounding the horn just to allow you to take a meter reading is quite low.

I dare suggest that the purpose of a train horn is to be noticeable against other notices to give due warning of the approaching train. If it serves this purpose, does it need to sound good?

 

[dk1]

i absolutely HATE the 755s with a passion for their HORRIBLE Horn tones!

That is so funny lol

It doesn’t have to be 1.5 seconds for each tone when departing the likes of Darsham up or Melton down. Many confuse it with the 3 second rule (all low tone) that has to be done at (W) boards. I just give a blast on any tone and within the last month was agreed to be correct by my driver manager accompanying me.

You’ve got me curious - is this pre-arranged work you doing with Stadler, or is this a noise complaint or similar?

Me too!! I’m doing testing work with Stadler on Monday so will enquire.

 

[py_megapixel]

I've just looked up an online video of the class 755 horns and they perhaps sounds a bit squeakier than others, but I don't really see what's wrong with them? I thought the point of the horn was to make a loud noise, and they seem to do that perfectly well...

 

[dk1]

I've just looked up an online video of the class 755 horns and they perhaps sounds a bit squeakier than others, but I don't really see what's wrong with them? I thought the point of the horn was to make a loud noise, and they seem to do that perfectly well...

They do sound like a strangled seagull tbh.

 

[Mowgli]

That is so funny lol

It doesn’t have to be 1.5 seconds for each tone when departing the likes of Darsham up or Melton down. Many confuse it with the 3 second rule (all low tone) that has to be done at (W) boards. I just give a blast on any tone and within the last month was agreed to be correct by my driver manager accompanying me.


Me too!! I’m doing testing work with Stadler on Monday so will enquire.

I have learnt something from you there dk1 - I thought it was 3 seconds like at a whistle board. Glad to be corrected, you have made my day, the less I sound that bloody horn the better!

 

[dk1]

I have learnt something from you there dk1 - I thought it was 3 seconds like at a whistle board. Glad to be corrected, you have made my day, the less I sound that bloody horn the better!

Well to be honest I wasn’t sure and have never done it at such locations but was happy to be proven correct. Glad I’ve made somebody happy today

Thought that might be the case, cheers

No problem

 

[XAM2175]

You’ve got me curious - is this pre-arranged work you doing with Stadler, or is this a noise complaint or similar?

Me too!! I’m doing testing work with Stadler on Monday so will enquire.

Given that they appear to be on here asking for a driver to sound the horn for them, I'm inclined to say that it's unofficial.

 

[Alarmkid23]

That is so funny lol

It doesn’t have to be 1.5 seconds for each tone when departing the likes of Darsham up or Melton down. Many confuse it with the 3 second rule (all low tone) that has to be done at (W) boards. I just give a blast on any tone and within the last month was agreed to be correct by my driver manager accompanying me.


Me too!! I’m doing testing work with Stadler on Monday so will enquire.

its just so we can get back to stadler as train horns should not exceed 97db (i think flirts must be 130-140Db on low tone as we had a issue at a foot crossing near wroxham (tunstead) as we heard a stadlers low tone and thought is the train near only to find out it was at Bears grove crossing and not near tunstead (7 mins past after the horn tone for bears grove bridleway crossing, the train finally passed the crossing we were at which was the Tunstead side of wroxham,yet the horn was audable for bears grove about 4 miles down the track)

Well to be honest I wasn’t sure and have never done it at such locations but was happy to be proven correct. Glad I’ve made somebody happy today



No problem

why is there a stop whistle before proceeding at Darsham (Ipswich bound platform) when the crossing is a ABCL and has Half barriers so I'm curios into why there is a need for the whistle before proceeding? the stop board is needed for the style of crossing and short activation time (it activates as a train passes over dual treadles part way along the platform, you can see the treadles from on the Lowestoft bound platform on the Ipswich platforms), But WHY sound horn as well? its a bit odd for a AHB (ABCL) to have a Whistle before proceeding instruction as it has LOUD audible alarms

 

[dk1]

why is there a stop whistle before proceeding at Darsham (Ipswich bound platform) when the crossing is a ABCL and has Half barriers so I'm curios into why there is a need for the whistle before proceeding? the stop board is needed for the style of crossing and short activation time (it activates as a train passes over dual treadles part way along the platform, you can see the treadles from on the Lowestoft bound platform on the Ipswich platforms), But WHY sound horn as well? its a bit odd for a AHB (ABCL) to have a Whistle before proceeding instruction as it has LOUD audible alarms

I can only assume with Darsham (up) & Melton (down) it’s because the crossing is only triggered after the train has arrived into the station. It was the same at Woodbridge (down) until the platform stop marker was extended for 3-car class 170s in the early 2000s.

Darsham is actually an AHB (the only one on the East Suffolk Line) and Melton an AOCL+B.

 

[Alarmkid23]

I can only assume with Darsham (up) & Melton (down) it’s because the crossing is only triggered after the train has arrived into the station. It was the same at Woodbridge (down) until the platform stop marker was extended for 3-car class 170s in the early 2000s.

Darsham is actually an AHB (the only one on the East Suffolk Line) and Melton an AOCL+B.

i always knew it as a ABCL as it has the flashing white light to tell drivers when its clear to pass over the crossing i never knew it was a AHB are you sure its AHB and not ABCL though? also is there a reason why the whistle is needed as its a half barrier crossing?

 

[dk1]

i always knew it as a ABCL as it has the flashing white light to tell drivers when its clear to pass over the crossing i never knew it was a AHB are you sure its AHB and not ABCL though? also is there a reason why the whistle is needed as its a half barrier crossing?

I’m 250% sure it’s an AHB. It used to have a small flashing light on the wall before the white/red indicators were installed. No idea why it has to have a whistle board. It’s always been like that.

These things date back to the 1980s when RETB was installed & the line rationalised. Darsham may well have been even earlier than that.

 

[Alarmkid23]

Oh i see in my opinion why it has a Whistle board. its in case someone decides misuse the crossing on foot, As years ago if I'm lead to believe the Lowestoft train pulled in just before the Lowestoft train pulled in? its so odd having the white and red light indicators for a AHB, according to railsigns.com it states this about darsham Level crossing, Darsham level crossing on the East Suffolk Line (Eastern Region) was converted to "Automatic Half Barrier" (AHB) type in November 1967. All trains in the Up direction were required to stop at a stop board on the station platform, whereupon the driver would operate a plunger to activate the crossing sequence. Since this level crossing was not of the open type, an alternative form of advance warning board with a square yellow face [16.16] was installed on the approach to the stop board. i wonder why its not still plunger operated now as the A12 is much busier now than back in 1967.

 

[dk1]

They tried at Wymondham to get the driver to operate a plunger when resignalling occurred around 10 years ago but it was rejected by the TOC/unions.

Woodbridge (down) was operated by a plunger from 2000 until that route was resignalled in 2011/12.

The whistle board was abolished leaving Woodbridge (down). I know there were many complaints from the adjacent theatre here.

You only have to observe that there are no flashing red/white lights approaching Darsham from the Ipswich direction to know it’s an AHB crossing.

 

[Alarmkid23]

but why is there flashing red/white lights in the up direction though? a oddity of the rail networks. i think i see why the horn is needed. In case in the rarest of cases someone on foot decides to risk it and cross in front of the train. what's your opinion on the whistle before proceeding at darsham as a driver, Do you agree with my theory regarding the Whistle before proceeding at darsham (Up direction)?

 

[dk1]

but why is there flashing red/white lights in the up direction though? a oddity of the rail networks. i think i see why the horn is needed. In case in the rarest of cases someone on foot decides to risk it and cross in front of the train. what's your opinion on the whistle before proceeding at darsham as a driver, Do you agree with my theory regarding the Whistle before proceeding at darsham (Up direction)?

It’s not something I’ve ever thought about in almost 25 years driving the route. An instruction to do something is just that. We may not like certain things but it’s part of the job & we do as we are told.

 

[Alarmkid23]

It’s not something I’ve ever thought about in almost 25 years driving the route. An instruction to do something is just that. We may not like certain things but it’s part of the job & we do as we are told.

do you drive the line to cromer? as we will be on 2S12 09:45 service to sherringham (only going as far as Cromer as on college trip)

 

[dk1]

do you drive the line to cromer? as we will be on 2S12 09:45 service to sherringham (only going as far as Cromer as on college trip)

Yes, done two of those today.

 

[Timpg]

but why is there flashing red/white lights in the up direction though? a oddity of the rail networks. i think i see why the horn is needed. In case in the rarest of cases someone on foot decides to risk it and cross in front of the train. what's your opinion on the whistle before proceeding at darsham as a driver, Do you agree with my theory regarding the Whistle before proceeding at darsham (Up direction)?

I personally think the whistle instruction should be removed.
The crossing is now covered via claxton alarms, road lights and barriers.
In my experience, it causes more harm than good, to those passengers who are unfamiliar with the departure process.
I’m often trying to alert people, particularly the elderly before I sound my horn, potentially giving them a heart attack as they walk past the front of my train.
It’s not ideal!!

 

[skyhigh]

its just so we can get back to stadler

Who is 'we'?

 

[Alarmkid23]

Who is 'we'?

Me and dad (il record using phone)

 

[L401CJF]

Me and dad (il record using phone)

Presumably if you're complaining about noise to Stadler, you will be using a good quality decibel meter?

 

[Alarmkid23]

Presumably if you're complaining about noise to Stadler, you will be using a good quality decibel meter?

Yep DB pro on phone

 

[skyhigh]

its just so we can get back to stadler as train horns should not exceed 97db

What's your source for that? From a cursory look I can see a different (higher) figure.

Yep DB pro on phone

That is in no way a "good quality decibel meter". It's not calibrated for a start. You might get a very rough idea but nothing more than that. For noise complaints you'd need a professional measurement (and I suspect Stadler will have made their own measurements against the specification during type testing of the units).

If I'm honest I don't think Stadler will be interested and will probably direct you to Greater Anglia. If you wanted to pursue a noise complaint you'd need to go via your local council but there's no guarantee they would do anything much about it if they've had no other complaints from local residents and GA/Network Rail can defend their position on safety grounds.

 

[class 9]

It doesn’t have to be 1.5 seconds for each tone when departing the likes of Darsham up or Melton down. Many confuse it with the 3 second rule (all low tone) that has to be done at (W) boards. I just give a blast on any tone and within the last month was agreed to be correct by my driver manager accompanying me.

Nothing in the rulebook about a 3 second rule, is it a company instruction?

 

[Llanigraham]

Yep DB pro on phone

Which is a highly inaccurate cell phone app that will prove nothing.
I've seen just how inaccurate compared to a professional, calibrated Motor Sport noise test meter!

 

[778]

What was the decibel level of horns from 50s and 60s built trains? I think it was not until the 80s when horns were required to be over 120 decibels.

On heritage railways horns are almost always sounded at crossings and in tunnels.

 

[Pigeon]

The thing that gets me is this "low tone only" thing they do these days. It's completely wrong, because it makes it not sound like a train. The two-tone train hooter is a highly distinctive sound, but it needs both the tones to be so. With only one tone it sounds more like a road vehicle somewhere out of sight. And it's neither less loud nor of significantly less duration than hooting both tones, so the excuse about not disturbing people doesn't wash.

In any case, if they really did care about not disturbing people they would get rid of those appalling shrieking sirens they install at the level crossing itself. They are loud even from within the train, they are much worse from outside, and they go on and on making that terrible noise for a very long time. And there is invariably at least one house right next to the crossing, inhabited by gibbering wrecks who have been driven insane by the racket until they ended up shoving knitting needles into their ears as the only way to get a bit of relief. It always amazes me that they keep on working, and people haven't squirted builders' expanding polyurethane foam into the things to shut them up.

 

[Pete_uk]

Goodness, those units do have funny horns

 

[RichJF]

Those horns are VERY similar to SNCF style horns. If you search in Youtube 'Klaxons train' you'll get tones from SNCF locos/units that sound like the Flirts.