South Wales Metro - Future

[Rhydgaled]

I agree as the basic instinct in me suggests the Coryton branch is ideal for tram-train beyond its end as well as at the other end (down the bay). Don't need a loo for those shorter journeys. The city line as far as Radyr makes sense for tram-train as well.

Precisely; sending trains/tram-trains without toilets all the way to the heads of the valleys seems a bit off to me but trams Coryton-Radyr (extended to Taffs Well at one or both ends of the journey to get the 398s to and from their depot) and down to Cardiff Bay should be fine.

I don't have an issue with machen-caerphilly being done the tram train standards if it means it happens. I don't personally think they'd be the natural fit for the marches stoppers.

My concern with the tram-train standards is the lack of toilets (and seats, if they're anything like the 'make nearly everyone stand, we'll get more pax. in that way' design of the Manchester Metrolink M5000 trams).

Regarding the provision of through trains between Ebbw Vale / Abertillery / Caerphilly and the Marches, my gut feeling was that a large proportion of the passengers using the Marches stoppers would want Cardiff; so it seems we are in agreement on that point. I only suggested it because it seems unlikely that Newport station would be able to handle 4tph from Ebbw Vale / Abertillery / Caerphilly needing to turn back, so it's more that I'm trying to find somewhere to run those services through to rather than any suggestion that passengers from Caerleon would be particularly interested in having through trains to Caerphilly or Ebbw Vale. Similarly, I guess a Hereford-Gloucester service, avoiding Newport via the east side of the Maindee triangle, would not be a particularly attractive option for a second Marches stopper each hour (the first being Hereford-Cardiff), the preference being for more trains to Cardiff? In which case, what do you do with a possible 4tph arriving in Newport from the Ebbw Vale direction?

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Precisely; sending trains/tram-trains without toilets all the way to the heads of the valleys seems a bit off to me but trams Coryton-Radyr (extended to Taffs Well at one or both ends of the journey to get the 398s to and from their depot) and down to Cardiff Bay should be fine.


My concern with the tram-train standards is the lack of toilets (and seats, if they're anything like the 'make nearly everyone stand, we'll get more pax. in that way' design of the Manchester Metrolink M5000 trams).

Regarding the provision of through trains between Ebbw Vale / Abertillery / Caerphilly and the Marches, my gut feeling was that a large proportion of the passengers using the Marches stoppers would want Cardiff; so it seems we are in agreement on that point. I only suggested it because it seems unlikely that Newport station would be able to handle 4tph from Ebbw Vale / Abertillery / Caerphilly needing to turn back, so it's more that I'm trying to find somewhere to run those services through to rather than any suggestion that passengers from Caerleon would be particularly interested in having through trains to Caerphilly or Ebbw Vale. Similarly, I guess a Hereford-Gloucester service, avoiding Newport via the east side of the Maindee triangle, would not be a particularly attractive option for a second Marches stopper each hour (the first being Hereford-Cardiff), the preference being for more trains to Cardiff? In which case, what do you do with a possible 4tph arriving in Newport from the Ebbw Vale direction?

I thought it was 4 tph on the line rather than to Newport? With two going to Cardiff or have they upped this?

The Ebbw Vale line to Newport makes sense, given they are known as the "Newport Valleys" but attaching these to the Cheltenham's as suggested above seems as pointless as the way they join Cheltenham to Maesteg (and I say this as someone who sometimes commutes Chepstow to Bridgend). Operationally it makes some sense, but the current plan of the Ebbw Vale - Cardiff trains running through to Maesteg makes the most sense as both branches are low speed and single for a long part of the route, meaning delays are kept to lines that are expected to have them, rather than a line such as Gloucester to Newport which needs to be operationally sound incase of diversions around the tunnel.

With regards to the tram trains, it is a trade off I guess. The money likely wouldn't have been there for a Rhymney style service to all three rail heads and they wanted rid of diesel all together on those lines anyways, so the rolling stock is what best will cope with the infrastructure. I do have ideas for this but I don't want to stray too far off topic. Will journey times change at all with the 398s in service?

Is there a speculative thread relating to such matters yet? I can't find one and feel that a new thread will not take what I think on the matter of Newport to Ebbw Vale and the trams as useful unless adding to a conversation so will keep it on the DL for now.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I thought it was 4 tph on the line rather than to Newport? With two going to Cardiff or have they upped this?

Sorry; perhaps I should have explained that better. I was assuming 2tph Caerphilly-Machen-Newport in addition to Ebbw Vale / Abertillery services. Thus you are correct that there is no plan for 4tph between Llanhilleth (etc.) and Newport. However add in 2tph from Machen, as I did, and it is potentially still 4tph terminating at Newport.

With regards to the tram trains, it is a trade off I guess. The money likely wouldn't have been there for a Rhymney style service to all three rail heads and they wanted rid of diesel all together on those lines anyways, so the rolling stock is what best will cope with the infrastructure. I do have ideas for this but I don't want to stray too far off topic. Will journey times change at all with the 398s in service?

Has the relative cost of a class 398 compared to a 756 or 231 been published anywhere? As far as I'm aware, the expected Metro infrastructure on Treherebert, Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil (TAM) routes is equally able to support class 756 and class 398 units (there have been suggestions that the 756s will enter service on the TAM lines first since the progress with electrification there is ahead of that on Rhymney).

 

[Mr. Angry]

Build an new platform at Newport.