Southampton Central - Brighton - Imperial Wharf (valid route?)

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Starshina

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Hi all,

Please bear with me for any errors, this is my first time tackling the routing guide.

I've got a Season Ticket for Southampton Central to Imperial Wharf. Sometimes I want to go elsewhere in the South East and want to make those journeys as cheap as possible. I know I can get off at intermediate stations Winchester, Basingstoke, Woking and Clapham Junction haven't posed a problem, but are there other routes that a traveller can use?

Southampton Central is its own routing point. Imperial Wharf has four but Southampton-Watford Junction is more expensive and fails the fare check, Southampton-Willesden Junction would involve doubling back so wouldn't be valid and there's no scheduled service from Hayes & Harlington to Imperial Wharf so the only valid routing point for Imperial Wharf in the Southampton direction is Clapham Junction.

Valid routes from Southampton to Clapham Junction are CW+LB (via Brighton or Lewes), LP (via Ford and Horsham), PD (via Havant and Guildford) and SW (via Winchester and Basingstoke).

So I thought I could travel from Southampton Central to Brighton on my season ticket but thought I would check with the ticket office first and was told that wasn't valid, having to buy a Southampton Central to Brighton return. Was that right and why?
 
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Quakkerillo

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Looking at the routeing guide, I also come to the conclusion that it would be valid via Brighton. Leaving the station is another thing, as that'll depend on the programming of the gateline and potentially staff awareness of the routeing guide for this if southampton-london tickets aren't programmed in to be accepted.

The information on having to buys Southampton-Brighton most certainly is wrong, as there's even a direct train from Southampton to Clapham Junction run by Southern via Ford and Horsham, so you'd be covered until Ford at least, but the employee apparently also didn't think of that / accept that.
 

Starshina

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The information on having to buys Southampton-Brighton most certainly is wrong, as there's even a direct train from Southampton to Clapham Junction run by Southern via Ford and Horsham, so you'd be covered until Ford at least, but the employee apparently also didn't think of that / accept that.
Thanks for that, this was on a Sunday when that Southampton - Clapham Junction via Ford and Horsham service doesn't run but when I asked for a Barnham to Brighton return the ticket guy wouldn't sell me it.
 

fergusjbend

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Thanks for that, this was on a Sunday when that Southampton - Clapham Junction via Ford and Horsham service doesn't run but when I asked for a Barnham to Brighton return the ticket guy wouldn't sell me it.

Perhaps he was playing the Trumpington Variation, according to which you would be in Nidd!
 

kieron

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So I thought I could travel from Southampton Central to Brighton on my season ticket but thought I would check with the ticket office first and was told that wasn't valid, having to buy a Southampton Central to Brighton return. Was that right and why?
To calculate the permitted routes, you need to either compare fares on a list which is based on the way fares were arranged in 1996, or look it up on a web page related to this list. In either case, the result is "there are no fares you can use between Southampton Central and Imperial Wharf". The National Routeing Guide in Detail document says:
To look up a journey in the Routeing Guide, an origin and destination routeing point
are needed. If a journey does not have an origin routeing point and a destination
routeing point, its permitted route is (1) the shortest route served by a regular
passenger service or (2) a route no more then 3 miles longer or (3) any other route
permitted by an easement.​
Checking what routes these are is quite fiddly, but a third party web site states that only the route via Basingstoke, Wimbledon and Clapham Junction would be allowed under rules (1) and (2), and I do not know of any extra routes allowed under rule (3).

If you had had a season ticket between Southampton and Kensington Olympia, however, things would have been different*.

Using either method above, Southampton-Clapham Junction and Southampton-Willesden Junction are valid routeing points. Southampton-Willesden Junction does not require you to double back, as it has valid routes via Acton Central in addition to those via Imperial Wharf.

Southampton-Southall has some fares above the through fare, and some below it, which example 4 in "National Routeing Guide in Detail" document suggests makes it invalid. The above web page says both Southall and Hayes & Harlington are "a group member that cannot be reached without passing another member of the group", whatever that means.

Southampton-Clapham Junction has mapped routes via Brighton on maps CW+LB. That's for a different ticket, however. A Southampton-Imperial Wharf ticket may not be valid any further towards Brighton than St. Denys.

By the way, I don't see where the problem is with being in Nidd. It doesn't look that bad to me, even if the rail service is a bit lacking these days.

* If you would like one of these, there should be no charge for changing your ticket over to a Southampton-Kensington Olympia one at a booking office.
 
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Starshina

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To calculate the permitted routes, you need to either compare fares on a list which is based on the way fares were arranged in 1996, or look it up on a web page related to this list. In either case, the result is "there are no fares you can use between Southampton Central and Imperial Wharf".

If you had had a season ticket between Southampton and Kensington Olympia, however, things would have been different*.

Using either method above, Southampton-Clapham Junction and Southampton-Willesden Junction are valid routeing points. Southampton-Willesden Junction does not require you to double back, as it has valid routes via Acton Central in addition to those via Imperial Wharf.

Southampton-Clapham Junction has mapped routes via Brighton on maps CW+LB. That's for a different ticket, however. A Southampton-Imperial Wharf ticket may not be valid any further towards Brighton than St. Denys.

* If you would like one of these, there should be no charge for changing your ticket over to a Southampton-Kensington Olympia one at a booking office.

It would be tricky to have Imperial Wharf on that 1996 fares list as it only opened in 2009. So are you saying that a Southampton - Kensington Olympia season ticket would be valid via Brighton?
 

yorkie

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It would be tricky to have Imperial Wharf on that 1996 fares list as it only opened in 2009. So are you saying that a Southampton - Kensington Olympia season ticket would be valid via Brighton?
It's open to interpretation, but the only sensible interpretation is that if a ticket to Clapham Jn is valid via Brighton then a ticket a short distance beyond Clapham Jn should also be. However you cannot be sure that everyone who inspects such a ticket will share this sensible view.
 

kieron

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It would be tricky to have Imperial Wharf on that 1996 fares list as it only opened in 2009. So are you saying that a Southampton - Kensington Olympia season ticket would be valid via Brighton?
The 1996 fares list was only uploaded last year, so it would have been easy enough to include it then. It does appear to only include fares between stations which were open in 1996, though. The "Routeing Point Calculator" page is something else though - it has "NFM64" fares for Southampton-Kirkstall Forge, and that only opened today.

A "not via London" Southampton-Kensington Olympia ticket is valid via Brighton, and would also be valid on a variety of routes via Basingstoke, Horsham or Guildford.

You should be able to get an itinerary that way on a journey planner.
 
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