Southeastern Hastings to Charing Cross via East Croydon?

[GodAtum]

What’s the reason these are diverted via Croydon, on their website there’s no mention of any engineering works?

Maldonado curious how many of their drivers sign this route?

 

[30907]

NRE tells me there's work between Sevenoaks and Tonbridge.

 

[NSE]

It’s a fairly frequent diversion for this service and happens a couple of times a year. This is one of the reasons SE drivers operate some of the SN services to Tonbridge from Redhill as it allows them to keep up route knowledge. From Redhill northwards I don’t know, I presume either cab rides with Southern drivers to keep up knowledge or Southern drivers taking them to London Bridge and handing back over for the Charing Cross stretch. Shame, I find it quite a useful service.

 

[Dibbo4025]

It’s a fairly frequent diversion for this service and happens a couple of times a year. This is one of the reasons SE drivers operate some of the SN services to Tonbridge from Redhill as it allows them to keep up route knowledge. From Redhill northwards I don’t know, I presume either cab rides with Southern drivers to keep up knowledge or Southern drivers taking them to London Bridge and handing back over for the Charing Cross stretch. Shame, I find it quite a useful service.

There's route learning paths in the wrt for SE to keep up/learn the route Redhill-London Bridge, 5Y77-80 - definitely ran at least Wednesday last week

 

[Peregrine 4903]

These diversions happen when the line is blocked between Tonbridge and Sevenoaks. And sometimes they also happen if the lines is blocked north of Sevenoaks as its a quicker route than sending the trains via Bat and Ball.

This year, they have happened a lot more than a couple of times, there at least 6 weekends that I know of they have happened.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

It makes a change anyway.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Its fantastic that route knowledge is maintained to permit this. Too many operators just don't bother to use diversionary routes enough and just abandon their passengers to buses.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Its fantastic that route knowledge is maintained to permit this. Too many operators just don't bother to use diversionary routes enough and just abandon their passengers to buses.

There are WTT ecs paths from London Bridge to Tonbridge via Redhill that allow Southeastern to maintain the route knowledge.

Southeastern drivers even have route knowledge of London Bridge Central which could allow them to terminate there if ever the line to London Charing Cross is blocked as well. Although, its not a diversion I've seen for a long while.

 

[Horizon22]

It's a fairly regular route, must happen say 3-4 times a year (and more if there's a good chunk of work). The normal diversion route if Grove Park - Elmstead Woods is blocked is to go via Beckenham Junction, but this then is the backup operation. As have been stated there have been 5Yxx trips running normally in the middle of the day (1000-1500) or so to maintain route knowledge. There have also been cab rides before on Southern services, but not sure how much Covid has prevented that from happening in recent times. It's also nice that they call at East Croydon and Redhill (not all of them stop at the latter) as it gives people additional options.

Obviously pathing is a slight issue because Charing X - Tunbridge Wells terminators don't do it and instead terminate at Sevenoaks for the shuttle bus (with Hildenborough of course) to Tonbridge.

As an aside Ramsgate / Dover services are diverted via Otford / Maidstone East and rejoin at Ashford when the same section of the line is blocked.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It's a fairly regular route, must happen say 3-4 times a year (and more if there's a good chunk of work). The normal diversion route if Grove Park - Elmstead Woods is blocked is to go via Beckenham Junction, but this then is the backup operation. As have been stated there have been 5Yxx trips running normally in the middle of the day (1000-1500) or so to maintain route knowledge. There have also been cab rides before on Southern services, but not sure how much Covid has prevented that from happening in recent times. It's also nice that they call at East Croydon and Redhill (not all of them stop at the latter) as it gives people additional options.

Obviously pathing is a slight issue because Charing X - Tunbridge Wells terminators don't do it and instead terminate at Sevenoaks for the shuttle bus (with Hildenborough of course) to Tonbridge.

As an aside Ramsgate / Dover services are diverted via Otford / Maidstone East and rejoin at Ashford when the same section of the line is blocked.

By far the hardest diversion along with Thameslink via Herne Hill to path/timetable on South East is Southeastern via Redhill. And this Sunday in particular was awful as there was a 2 track possession between East Croydon and Purley.

 

[JonathanH]

It's also nice that they call at East Croydon and Redhill (not all of them stop at the latter) as it gives people additional options.

No Redhill stops by Southeastern on Saturdays for the last few possessions. Southeastern are stopping today though.

 

[steamybrian]

Showing my age but before Redhill- Tonbridge line was electrified in 1993..
I remember the old Hastings DEMUs being diverted from Tonbridge via Redhill to London Bridge, Waterloo East and Charing Cross. Was on some very fast runs up to 85mph on the straight track between Tonbridge and Redhill

 

[Peregrine 4903]

No Redhill stops by Southeastern on Saturdays for the last few possessions. Southeastern are stopping today though.

Yeah they only call at Redhill on Sunday.

And sometimes they run non-stop between London Bridge and Tonbridge, but they will normally call at East Croydon.

 

[Bikeman78]

They are booked to use platforms 4 and 5 at London Bridge however none have done so in reality. They seem to be crossing to and from the Central side just outside London Bridge.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

They are booked to use platforms 4 and 5 at London Bridge however none have done so in reality. They seem to be crossing to and from the Central side just outside London Bridge.

That's because Southeastern drivers don't have route knowledge of the Bricklayers Arms flyover.

 

[Horizon22]

No Redhill stops by Southeastern on Saturdays for the last few possessions. Southeastern are stopping today though.

That's not true as I stopped at Redhill yesterday on the down! Edit: interesting RTT does not show this train stopping, although the doors were definitely opened and people got on & off...

 

[JonathanH]

That's not true as I stopped at Redhill yesterday on the down!

Maybe, but there were no scheduled stops and haven't been when diversions have run this year.

1Y32 1130 London Charing Cross to Hastings shows using platform 3 at Redhill - everything else went through on the main lines.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...6/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=SE

 

[Horizon22]

Maybe, but there were no scheduled stops and haven't been when diversions have run this year.

1Y32 1130 London Charing Cross to Hastings shows using platform 3 at Redhill - everything else went through on the main lines.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...6/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=SE

That was indeed the train I was on - the only reason I can presume is because Thameslink was having a fair bit of disruption at the time, so maybe it was a special stop order. My return journey didn't stop.

 

[Bikeman78]

That's because Southeastern drivers don't have route knowledge of the Bricklayers Arms flyover.

Oh dear, no one told the planners then. Genuinely surprised given that they must sign just about everything else in the area. There are numerous possible routes from New Cross Gate to London Bridge along the slow lines. Presumably they sign all possible combinations of that or they could get stuck very easily. Likewise I hope they sign the fast and slow lines around Windmill Bridge Junction or they could get stuck there too.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I was wondering whether I can count the up Sussex to Up Charing Cross crossover as something new. Plenty of trains in the old days headed over (Caterham and Tattenham Corner off peak normally), but I reckon the formation is new so I can count the crossover. That said I was hoping to use platform 5 so it was a minor disappointment that we didn’t.

 

[Steve Bray]

Having seen that trains were running from Redhill directly to Hastings today, and as the forecast was good, I decided to take a day trip from Dorking to Rye (also having seen a repeat of Michael Portillo's programmes this week when he visited Rye). It was so nice not to have an extra change at Tonbridge en route.

On my way back, I caught the 1631 ex Hastings to Redhill where I was able to cross to Platform 1 to catch the 1743 GWR service to Dorking (not an advertised connection), thus taking just under 90 minutes to travel from Hastings to Dorking.

Talking of speedy journey times, I noticed that 46 minute journeys were possible between London Bridge and Dorking Deepdene today (with a change at Redhill) by using the SE service from LBG to RDH and onto DPD by GWR. These were the fastest advertised journeys I've seen for a while. During the week with regular timetable in operation, the fastest journeys between Dorking and London (only by a couple of minutes), tend to be those changing at Redhill as opposed to the direct Dorking Dawdlers provided by SR and SWR

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Oh dear, no one told the planners then. Genuinely surprised given that they must sign just about everything else in the area. There are numerous possible routes from New Cross Gate to London Bridge along the slow lines. Presumably they sign all possible combinations of that or they could get stuck very easily. Likewise I hope they sign the fast and slow lines around Windmill Bridge Junction or they could get stuck there too.

Southeastern drivers sign the slows and fast lines around Windmill Bridge Junction.

 

[GodAtum]

It's funny seeing everyone confused at East Croydon trying to go to London Bridge. The best place to sit seems to be at the end of each 4-car as people think it's 1st class as in the Southern 377s.