Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[Fincra5]

Don't give them ideas - there's longitudinal seating coming from Reading on EL and class 700s, really designed for commuter travel with basic interiors, now go as far to East Anglia or the Sussex coast with uncomfortable ironing boards. All which would have been inconceivable in the past.

If Southeastern gets something similar to class 701s with toilets & normal seating then these would be OK for metro/short distance like Orpington etc.

Other than the tip up seats where the Wheelchair and Bike spaces are, there's no Longitudinal seating on a Class 700... And that does fine for the busy Core section.

 

[LUYMun]

Nowhere does TfL state they would use longitudinal seating if they were to hypothetically take over the metro services

Throughout TFL's Metroisation strategic case document, it implies that longitudinal seats in new stock would be the case if further networks are taken over, including highlighting and comparing against examples of "metro-style trains" that already makes use of such seats.

Page 27:
3.4 National Rail rolling stock in south London is not tailored to provide an urban metro service
3.4.2 Table 5 illustrates this by comparing the characteristics and performance of current rolling-stock (e.g. Class 377 trains used on Southern services) against metro-style trains (e.g. S Stock trains). This shows that metro-style trains offer significant benefits over current rolling stock, as the carriages have a much higher overall capacity, and more and wider doors.

Page 59:
Rolling stock design
[...]
- More free-flowing train interior layout

Page 61:
7.7 Rolling stock design
Introducing metro-like rolling stock (like the Elizabeth line’s Class 345) has a big impact on performance and journey times [...] Additionally, the design of the train itself (the number of doors, the standback space around the doors, the time it takes doors to open and close and the height of the step to the platform) makes a big difference to dwell times. Saving seconds from dwell times at every station quickly adds up to better performance for all-stations services.

 

[778]

Throughout TFL's Metroisation strategic case document, it implies that longitudinal seats in new stock would be the case if further networks are taken over, including highlighting and comparing against examples of "metro-style trains" that already makes use of such seats.

Hopefully the metro replacement fleet will be ordered before TFL take over so it will be too late for them to introduce longitudinal seating.

 

[hwl]

Throughout TFL's Metroisation strategic case document, it implies that longitudinal seats in new stock would be the case if further networks are taken over, including highlighting and comparing against examples of "metro-style trains" that already makes use of such seats.

TfL (off record) now admit they got a lot wrong in their thinking that went into the metroisation plan and hadn't actually done very detailed level assessment on understanding of passenger flows and lengths of journey times.
The 701s have shown a good all round compromise in terms of seating, boarding speed and standing capacity.

Hopefully the metro replacement fleet will be ordered before TFL take over so it will be too late for them to introduce longitudinal seating.

TfL aren't planning to take over.
a) It would take lots of investment (and they have no funding for it)
b) the cost of splitting SE metro and long distance increases overall costs for both - which is a bit of a non starter given the need for efficient expenditure.

 

[Mikey C]

Throughout TFL's Metroisation strategic case document, it implies that longitudinal seats in new stock would be the case if further networks are taken over, including highlighting and comparing against examples of "metro-style trains" that already makes use of such seats.

The 377s in the comparison (even the 377/6s) aren't metro trains anyway, but outer suburban ones that happen to be all Southern has left to operate its "metro" routes after the 455s left without replacement. A more relevant comparison would be 378 vs 376, seeing that the Overground 378s were developed from the Southeastern 376s. The 701s, 700s, 717s etc are all modern high capacity metro trains without sideways seating.

 

[MPW]

TfL (off record) now admit they got a lot wrong in their thinking that went into the metroisation plan and hadn't actually done very detailed level assessment on understanding of passenger flows and lengths of journey times.
The 701s have shown a good all round compromise in terms of seating, boarding speed and standing capacity.


TfL aren't planning to take over.
a) It would take lots of investment (and they have no funding for it)
b) the cost of splitting SE metro and long distance increases overall costs for both - which is a bit of a non starter given the need for efficient expenditure.

Interesting... are you able to share more info about this 'hindsight'?

 

[Busman]

TfL (off record) now admit they got a lot wrong in their thinking that went into the metroisation plan and hadn't actually done very detailed level assessment on understanding of passenger flows and lengths of journey times.
The 701s have shown a good all round compromise in terms of seating, boarding speed and standing capacity.


TfL aren't planning to take over.
a) It would take lots of investment (and they have no funding for it)
b) the cost of splitting SE metro and long distance increases overall costs for both - which is a bit of a non starter given the need for efficient expenditure.

Best news I've heard for ages.

And yes, despite the ongoing issues of getting the 701s on the track, they are a perfect example of having space and preferable seating.

Keep longitudinal seating to the tube, it's has no place on the national rail network.

Other than the tip up seats where the Wheelchair and Bike spaces are, there's no Longitudinal seating on a Class 700... And that does fine for the busy Core section.

Absolutely!