Southeastern - Timetable change

[JonathanH]

Ah I forgot about the NR strikes... thanks for clarifying, that explains that then

The first train via Maidstone West connecting from St Pancras gives a 90 minute earlier arrival from London.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It's a superbly designed station for interchanges. The old station was a total nightmare. Operationally it's a lot better too

Would have been better if it had a middle level to make interchanges easier, rather than going all the way down on a cramped escalator or stair way then crossing the concourse with hordes of criss crossing travellers and back up said stairway/escalators again.

 

[Box]

Would have been better if it had a middle level to make interchanges easier, rather than going all the way down on a cramped escalator or stair way then crossing the concourse with hordes of criss crossing travellers and back up said stairway/escalators again.

Absolutely this, superbly designed for interchange it is not.

 

[hkstudent]

Talking about interchange, despite SER effort in suggesting London Bridge as interchange, Lewisham is more often popped up on journey planner due to shorter change time and more frequent eastbound change opportunity.

Have seen couple of times, people running up the stairs on platform 4 and run further 3 cars to the end of a 8-car train due to stopping position in Lewisham is too in front. Quite often people miss that by seconds as platform 2 trains being held at Lewisham Vale Junction despite it's all green in the next few blocks.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Absolutely this, superbly designed for interchange it is not.

I agree, what they should’ve done is at least build a footbridge in addition, with lifts too, it might make interchanges quicker.

 

[JonathanH]

I agree, what they should’ve done is at least build a footbridge in addition, with lifts too, it might make interchanges quicker.

The amount of space on the platforms at London Bridge used for the existing escalators and staircases doesn't leave much room for additional footbridges, given space is also needed for passengers to wait on the platforms.

 

[hkstudent]

The amount of space on the platforms at London Bridge used for the existing escalators and staircases doesn't leave much room for additional footbridges, given space is also needed for passengers to wait on the platforms.

Even 2 sets of escalators are not enough for interchange flow. Not to mention platform 1 only get 1 set

 

[NorthKent1989]

Talking about interchange, despite SER effort in suggesting London Bridge as interchange, Lewisham is more often popped up on journey planner due to shorter change time and more frequent eastbound change opportunity.

Have seen couple of times, people running up the stairs on platform 4 and run further 3 cars to the end of a 8-car train due to stopping position in Lewisham is too in front. Quite often people miss that by seconds as platform 2 trains being held at Lewisham Vale Junction despite it's all green in the next few blocks.

I’ve had the same thing, and this makes changing for Charing Cross trains more awkward, I save that for London Bridge but I do see hordes of Charing X bound passengers cramming down the tunnels at Lewisham station.

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The amount of space on the platforms at London Bridge used for the existing escalators and staircases doesn't leave much room for additional footbridges, given space is also needed for passengers to wait on the platforms.

The platforms at London Bridge aren’t exactly the biggest either

 

[Edsmith]

Even 2 sets of escalators are not enough for interchange flow. Not to mention platform 1 only get 1 set

How much usage does platform 1 get?

 

[ComUtoR]

Quite often people miss that by seconds as platform 2 trains being held at Lewisham Vale Junction despite it's all green in the next few blocks.

Why are trains being held at Lewisham Vale is the blocks are all green ?

This has sorta been resolved in the new timetable so that frustration should be reduced.

 

[frodshamfella]

Have some family who are really unamused with no off peak Bexleyheath - Charing X service. First time ever had a situation like this.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Have some family who are really unamused with no off peak Bexleyheath - Charing X service. First time ever had a situation like this.

It’s a really poor timetable, it’s like Southeastern have given up on running a decent railway, by using Lewisham Junction and the Elizabeth line as excuses to decimate rail services at a time when there is an expected population growth

 

[hkstudent]

How much usage does platform 1 get?

Much more for now as Bexleyheath Line and North Kent Line are only served by Cannon Street services and hence more interchange and origin flows, instead of spread by Charing Cross and Waterloo East.

 

[frodshamfella]

It’s a really poor timetable, it’s like Southeastern have given up on running a decent railway, by using Lewisham Junction and the Elizabeth line as excuses to decimate rail services at a time when there is an expected population growth

I'm sure many will be unhappy, its the opposite to what it was peak to CS and the main service to CX where people want to go.

 

[hkstudent]

It’s a really poor timetable, it’s like Southeastern have given up on running a decent railway, by using Lewisham Junction and the Elizabeth line as excuses to decimate rail services at a time when there is an expected population growth

It's rather unfair to TfL buses as well, as pushing too much passengers for connecting to Elizabeth Line services. There's just not enough drivers to add services.

 

[Class 466]

Much more for now as Bexleyheath Line and North Kent Line are only served by Cannon Street services and hence more interchange and origin flows, instead of spread by Charing Cross and Waterloo East.

The Bexleyheath line still has its popular Victoria services (which it stood to lose at one stage).

 

[frodshamfella]

The Bexleyheath line still has its popular Victoria services (which it stood to lose at one stage).

It does take longer to reach the West End that way. If its popular why would it go ?

 

[ComUtoR]

It does take longer to reach the West End that way. If its popular why would it go ?

Route rationalisation at Lewisham. It crosses the junction so it causes delays. The other idea is to run the Vic's via Sidcup so there isn't a conflict.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I think a lot has been made of Lewisham Junction, I’d rather wait at Lewisham or the viaduct for a couple of minutes and get my direct route to the West End than changing at London Bridge, which is often overcrowded now they’ve rationalised the lines.

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It's rather unfair to TfL buses as well, as pushing too much passengers for connecting to Elizabeth Line services. There's just not enough drivers to add services.

TfL are rubbing their hands with glee I would imagine, more money and revenue for them! Especially post covid, but as for passengers I have noticed the 53/453 routes being a lot busier lately, I only get the 53 as a last resort but it’s pretty rammed by Blackheath and then there’s the mass exodus at Deptford to change there for the 453.

I do feel that SE see the Elizabeth line as a magic bullet for all a their problems but the Elizabeth line is pretty at capacity most mornings

 

[NSE]

It does take longer to reach the West End that way. If its popular why would it go ?

Because many popular routes have been shelved as operational reasons often mean it’s easier. A junction like Lewisham can be a hot bed for delays so it’d be no surprise to see services ‘simplified’ to avoid the chance for delays. I guess this tends to happen more in urban/metro areas where there are many ‘easy’ changes. Such as arriving from Bexleyheath and switching across at Lewisham for a Victoria service that’s arriving from Sidcup. Sometimes this is offset by increasing the frequencies so the average journey can now be made more times through the hour, even if the the addition of a change makes the service five/ten minutes longer.

Of course all this works/makes sense in theory.

 

[cle]

Are there frequency increases then, to benefit/leverage this optimization of routes?

 

[PGAT]

Are there frequency increases then, to benefit/leverage this optimization of routes?

Off-peak, I don't think so but I do know there are peaks from Blackfriars to Dartford via Sidcup

 

[hkstudent]

Are there frequency increases then, to benefit/leverage this optimization of routes?

No, actually has frequency reduction at the same time

 

[NorthKent1989]

Are there frequency increases then, to benefit/leverage this optimization of routes?

No there haven’t been, some stations are seeing as little as 2tph, the Greenwich line with its 23 min gaps between trains despite being 4tph is effectively 2tph with its very uneven gaps

 

[Peregrine 4903]

This forum is the only place I've heard people complain about London Bridge Station.

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No, actually has frequency reduction at the same time

Where are the frequency reductions?

Because there aren't any.

 

[NorthKent1989]

This forum is the only place I've heard people complain about London Bridge Station.

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Where are the frequency reductions?

Because there aren't any.

Plenty people do complain about it, and it’s warranted, there aren’t enough lifts or escalators to different platforms.

There are frequency reductions actually, pre covid the Woolwich line had 8tph, 4tph Cannon Street rounders, 2tph Luton to Rainham, 2tph Charing Cross to Dartford.

The Bexleyheath had 6tph as did the Sidcup line, those frequencies haven’t returned and Albany Park as I said earlier is down to 2tph, large and uneven gaps on the Greenwich line has passengers waiting 23 for a train in the largest gap and 7 minutes for the shorter gap.

For an area that has population growth increase it’s a very short sighted reduction.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Plenty people do complain about it, and it’s warranted, there aren’t enough lifts or escalators to different platforms.

There are frequency reductions actually, pre covid the Woolwich line had 8tph, 4tph Cannon Street rounders, 2tph Luton to Rainham, 2tph Charing Cross to Dartford.

The Bexleyheath had 6tph as did the Sidcup line, those frequencies haven’t returned and Albany Park as I said earlier is down to 2tph, large and uneven gaps on the Greenwich line has passengers waiting 23 for a train in the largest gap and 7 minutes for the shorter gap.

For an area that has population growth increase it’s a very short sighted reduction.

But everywhere has frequency reductions since pre covid. Based off the May timetable it's the same level of service.

That's the dft not Southeastern that are driving frequency reductions. Will likely only get worse as well.

 

[PGAT]

There are frequency reductions actually, pre covid the Woolwich line had 8tph, 4tph Cannon Street rounders, 2tph Luton to Rainham, 2tph Charing Cross to Dartford.

The Bexleyheath had 6tph as did the Sidcup line, those frequencies haven’t returned and Albany Park as I said earlier is down to 2tph, large and uneven gaps on the Greenwich line has passengers waiting 23 for a train in the largest gap and 7 minutes for the shorter gap.

Yeah, but that’s pre-covid, of course there are reductions but that’s not what this topic is about.

 

[Bikeman78]

I’ve had the same thing, and this makes changing for Charing Cross trains more awkward, I save that for London Bridge but I do see hordes of Charing X bound passengers cramming down the tunnels at Lewisham station.

I've got a good idea, they could run direct trains to Charing Cross from each route, Oh wait...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Route rationalisation at Lewisham. It crosses the junction so it causes delays. The other idea is to run the Vic's via Sidcup so there isn't a conflict.

Having commuted from Blackheath to Victoria for many years; these services were often the first to be cancelled during disruption.

Much to my annoyance as London Bridge is of no use to me