Southern Timetable Change 2018

[FOH]

I queried with GTR the reasoning behind the removal of NXG fasts. I was told having a stop so close to a major London station on the fast lines would destroy ultimate line capacity.

 

[mmh]

A timetable that forces changes at Norwood Junction is ridiculous, it's completely unsuited with its narrow passageways, steep and narrow stairs and narrow fast up London platform.

Scrapping all of New Cross Gate's fast line services just a few weeks into having a few Peterborough "preview" stop there feels like a double kick. "Here's what you could have won". Why on earth would you do that?

My experience is there's a reasonable amount of use of the NXG-Horsham fast line service to East Croydon and Gatwick. It gives a one change service from the north of the east London line to both. Now most of that flow will be forced onto well over capacity London Overground trains which can't be lengthened and increase interchange at Norwood, while leaving the recently rebuilt fast line platforms at NXG unused.

They may as well not have bothered and just closed the NXG fast platforms. It's a shambles.

I've been wondering more about this and checking other changes in the timtable. It's even worse than I realised. On top of forcing changes at Norwood Junction to reach East Croydon / Gatwick, Norwood to East Croydon goes from 6tph to 4tph in the new timetable, and those 4 are timed xx:02, xx:06, xx:32, xx:36 so effectively 2tph!

Are there actually any winners from this new timetable?

 

[USBT]

On top of forcing changes at Norwood Junction to reach East Croydon / Gatwick, Norwood to East Croydon goes from 6tph to 4tph in the new timetable, and those 4 are timed xx:02, xx:06, xx:32, xx:36 so effectively 2tph!

Are there actually any winners from this new timetable?

West Croydon (and stations back to Epsom). They get a 2tph all day semi fast to London Bridge, running fast between Norwood Junction and LBG.

 

[Tunnel Bore]

That's what makes the new timetable so disappointing when it was intended to offer "improvements". Here was an opportunity to accelerate the current service, and instead it has been decelerated.

Quite right. The trumpeting of improvements is galling when so many people are having their commute made worse. The station PA announcing the changes is talking about improvements and it makes my blood boil. My commute is Balcombe to Victoria. All direct trains gone (as expected from consultation) but the TL trains are down to from 2 kph to 1 tph which was not in the consultation. The morning peak trains don't stop Gatwick which forces a change to a packed train at East Croydon. The off peak increase to 2 kph is of no use to me.

 

[Argyle_mikey]

First post here, but a long time lurker. Railway enthusiast since I was a kid. I commute daily from Rye to The City using the Marshlink and the Javelins from Ashford. Season ticket cost £7188.

There’s quite a bit of bad feeling down here about the timetable changes. See here :
http://www.ryenews.org.uk/news/southerns-new-timetable

The 0706/1800 Rye shuttle that many of us use is invariably the first to be cancelled when there’s any 171 problems on our line or Uckfield. These are pretty regular. It was also one of the first to be pulled on strike days - despite the fact the line is not DOO. Now the time of the shuttles are changing, but to commuters further detriment - we will hit a 6 coach train at Ashford, assuming the shuttle runs in the first place. We’ve also lost the through train to Brighton. Overcrowding at weekends on the two coach 171’s is appalling - but there has been no response to our suggestions that Soutgern pull a couple of four coach units from (quiet at weekends) Uckfield Line to provide some relief.

I responded to the consultation. Everything regular users suggest seems to be ignored. Even the spare unit released by the changes is going to be stored at Selhurst - so it can presumably be used for Uckfield.

Sorry for the downbeat tone of my first post. Just another whingeing commuter who doesn’t understand the realities of running a railway ? Maybe. But IMHO, Marshlink and its loyal commuters surely deserve a much needed boost sooner rather than later.

To any naysayers out there - come and try the line and let me know your impressions. We’re a friendly bunch, the Southern staff are invariably good people - we just need something back.

Mike

 

[emil]

First post here, but a long time lurker. Railway enthusiast since I was a kid. I commute daily from Rye to The City using the Marshlink and the Javelins from Ashford. Season ticket cost £7188.

There’s quite a bit of bad feeling down here about the timetable changes. See here :
http://www.ryenews.org.uk/news/southerns-new-timetable

The 0706/1800 Rye shuttle that many of us use is invariably the first to be cancelled when there’s any 171 problems on our line or Uckfield. These are pretty regular. It was also one of the first to be pulled on strike days - despite the fact the line is not DOO. Now the time of the shuttles are changing, but to commuters further detriment - we will hit a 6 coach train at Ashford, assuming the shuttle runs in the first place. We’ve also lost the through train to Brighton. Overcrowding at weekends on the two coach 171’s is appalling - but there has been no response to our suggestions that Soutgern pull a couple of four coach units from (quiet at weekends) Uckfield Line to provide some relief.

I responded to the consultation. Everything regular users suggest seems to be ignored. Even the spare unit released by the changes is going to be stored at Selhurst - so it can presumably be used for Uckfield.

Sorry for the downbeat tone of my first post. Just another whingeing commuter who doesn’t understand the realities of running a railway ? Maybe. But IMHO, Marshlink and its loyal commuters surely deserve a much needed boost sooner rather than later.

To any naysayers out there - come and try the line and let me know your impressions. We’re a friendly bunch, the Southern staff are invariably good people - we just need something back.

Mike

Maybe this action group should set up a community rail partnership for the Marshes line.
Perhaps even arrange for Hastings diesel could be hired in.

 

[Bishopstone]

My commute is Balcombe to Victoria. All direct trains gone (as expected from consultation) but the TL trains are down to from 2 kph to 1 tph which was not in the consultation. The morning peak trains don't stop Gatwick which forces a change to a packed train at East Croydon. The off peak increase to 2 kph is of no use to me.

No Up trains between 06.57 and 07.56, ouch!

And both of those are Thameslink ex-Littlehampton, which I suspect will be wedged on arrival at Balcombe. Double ouch!

 

[JB_B]

... Now the time of the shuttles are changing, but to commuters further detriment - we will hit a 6 coach train at Ashford,...

...To any naysayers out there - come and try the line and let me know your impressions. We’re a friendly bunch, the Southern staff are invariably good people - we just need something back.

Possibly I've misunderstood but the retimed Rye shuttle connects into the 07.44 at Ashford and in the comments to the article you linked to ( http://www.ryenews.org.uk/news/southerns-new-timetable ) South Eastern are quoted as saying

"We’ve been able to lengthen two morning peak departures from Ashford to 12-cars – the 07:44 and the 08:16 – but I’m afraid that the 07:16 service will continue to be a 6-car train."

You're right that the MarshLink is well worth a visit.

Years ago, not long after the thumpers left, I had the unexpected pleasure of trundling across the Marsh in the Hastings unit (drafted in vice an unavailable 171).

Does Southern/GTR still have the will/capacity to arrange things like that these days?

 

[Ianno87]

First post here, but a long time lurker. Railway enthusiast since I was a kid. I commute daily from Rye to The City using the Marshlink and the Javelins from Ashford. Season ticket cost £7188.

There’s quite a bit of bad feeling down here about the timetable changes. See here :
http://www.ryenews.org.uk/news/southerns-new-timetable

The 0706/1800 Rye shuttle that many of us use is invariably the first to be cancelled when there’s any 171 problems on our line or Uckfield. These are pretty regular. It was also one of the first to be pulled on strike days - despite the fact the line is not DOO. Now the time of the shuttles are changing, but to commuters further detriment - we will hit a 6 coach train at Ashford, assuming the shuttle runs in the first place. We’ve also lost the through train to Brighton. Overcrowding at weekends on the two coach 171’s is appalling - but there has been no response to our suggestions that Soutgern pull a couple of four coach units from (quiet at weekends) Uckfield Line to provide some relief.

I responded to the consultation. Everything regular users suggest seems to be ignored. Even the spare unit released by the changes is going to be stored at Selhurst - so it can presumably be used for Uckfield.

Sorry for the downbeat tone of my first post. Just another whingeing commuter who doesn’t understand the realities of running a railway ? Maybe. But IMHO, Marshlink and its loyal commuters surely deserve a much needed boost sooner rather than later.

To any naysayers out there - come and try the line and let me know your impressions. We’re a friendly bunch, the Southern staff are invariably good people - we just need something back.

Mike

1) Aren't the all-day connections at Ashford between Marshlink and HS1 Javelins considerably improved by this timetable, particularly off-peak?

2) The chopping back of the service to only operate east of Eastbourne surely has the effect of freeing up a 171 so short notice cancellation of the Rye shuttle should become a less common occurence, and/or for extra strengthening?

 

[Argyle_mikey]

Yes, that’s quite correct JBB - apologies. What I should have said is that the 0744 gets me into London just too late (those 8 minutes and the Ebbsfleet stop make all the difference- the 0706 and 0736 is just about perfect). Commuters are now planning get the 0646 - and it’s that connects with the 6 coach 0716 at AFK.

I’d love the Hastings unit to turn up instead of nothing at all (which happens once a week on average I’d say). Sadly, it hasn’t been used in that role since 2005. I’ve no idea why.

Mike

 

[Argyle_mikey]

Ian

1). Yes. See the link - the frustration is that occasional users during the day have improved matters for themselves at the expense of daily commuters. Sorry if that sounds selfish - it’s just the feeling here.
2). You’d think so. But as indicated, Southern Intend for this to be stabled at Selhurst instead of Hastings. So it’ll just fill in on the Uckfield line.

Mike

 

[infobleep]

My guess is that it's to with pathing through Epsom and Leatherhead. If SWT (or whatever they're called now) aren't changing their timetables much then it would stand that Southern trains have to occupy the same path they previously did.

Perhaps they can amend them in December when SWR amend their timetable.

 

[infobleep]

I responded to the consultation. The new timetable does not at all resemble that proposed during the consultation. It is particularly bad for Caterham (CAT). Instead of Tattenham Corner (TAT) services arriving first at Purley in the am peak, services from CAT will arrive first and will have to wait for 7 minutes at Purley. You could say it was time that TAT was give preferential treatment, as CAT has had it better for so long. Also, there will be 20 minute gaps between some trains, not 16 at present. I see many people taking the 407 Bus to Whyteleafe and walking to Upper Warlingham.

Services from Purley also look considerably worse than at present, with approaching 30 min gaps for fast trains to London (Not CAT/TAT).

There is now only one train from Epsom to Guildford, leaving a huge 1 hour 40 minute gap for services from Epsom to Guildford (No SWR trains during this period).

This really is appalling timetabling and services for a busy commuter railway.

The issue here is that they have amended the timetable for the future but SWR are not amending their timetable. So between May and December you have morning and evening gaps where travelling via Dorking between Epsom and Guildford maybe faster. It reminds me of when the guards have been on strike and no trains to GuulGuild have run, only this time it's they can't blame the guards, so they will probably gloss over this fact.

I don't know if Guilldford to Epsom is valid via Dorking. Not checked.

 

[infobleep]

I've been wondering more about this and checking other changes in the timtable. It's even worse than I realised. On top of forcing changes at Norwood Junction to reach East Croydon / Gatwick, Norwood to East Croydon goes from 6tph to 4tph in the new timetable, and those 4 are timed xx:02, xx:06, xx:32, xx:36 so effectively 2tph!

Are there actually any winners from this new timetable?

I hat reminds me of the current Sunday timetable between Woking and Guildford. Trains at xx02, xx05, xx32 and xx35.

 

[infobleep]

I queried with GTR the reasoning behind the removal of NXG fasts. I was told having a stop so close to a major London station on the fast lines would destroy ultimate line capacity.

So a bit like or Clapham Junction on the South Western Mainline during the high peaks.

 

[swt_passenger]

I hat reminds me of the current Sunday timetable between Woking and Guildford. Trains at xx02, xx05, xx32 and xx35.

It’s a fact of life. If a railway is to have trains with different stopping patterns, speeds, routes etc you cannot have regular interval clock face everywhere. It’s little different to Waterloo to Winchester at xx05, xx09, xx35, xx39; and that’s on weekdays.

 

[Mike99]

Unless it is subsequently altered in the new timetable from May 2018, RTT shows that 1Y55, 09:26 Southampton Central to Brighton via Eastleigh and 1Y59 11:33 Southampton Central to Brighton via the normal routeing via Botley, both now fail to call at Fareham at 09:54 and 11:55 which appears to be the only services in the xx:55 past each hour cycle that don't call at Fareham which seems a bit odd as its a recognised and historic service!!

 

[mmh]

It’s a fact of life. If a railway is to have trains with different stopping patterns, speeds, routes etc you cannot have regular interval clock face everywhere. It’s little different to Waterloo to Winchester at xx05, xx09, xx35, xx39; and that’s on weekdays.

In my example the previous services were 6tph which weren't evenly 10 minutes apart, I understand that's not possible. The gaps between them varied from 7 to 13 minutes though. Going from that to 4tph with gaps of 4 or 26 minutes is a big deteroriation in service.

 

[swt_passenger]

In my example the previous services were 6tph which weren't evenly 10 minutes apart, I understand that's not possible. The gaps between them varied from 7 to 13 minutes though. Going from that to 4tph with gaps of 4 or 26 minutes is a big deteroriation in service.

Sure. I was really only challenging infobleep’spoint. His is something of an edge case where there just happens to be a Waterloo - Portsmouth fast service running through Guildford at almost the same times as a Waterloo to Guildford via Woking stopper comes through. It isn’t designed to provide a 4 tph Woking - Guildford service.

 

[JonathanH]

Sure. I was really only challenging infobleep’spoint. His is something of an edge case where there just happens to be a Waterloo - Portsmouth fast service running through Guildford at almost the same times as a Waterloo to Guildford via Woking stopper comes through. It isn’t designed to provide a 4 tph Woking - Guildford service.

No, this is a common thing where a stopping train close to its destination is followed by a faster service going further down the line. You could argue that it is timed perfectly for people to connect from stations east of Woking into the stations south of Guildford.

 

[JonathanH]

I've been wondering more about this and checking other changes in the timtable. It's even worse than I realised. On top of forcing changes at Norwood Junction to reach East Croydon / Gatwick, Norwood to East Croydon goes from 6tph to 4tph in the new timetable, and those 4 are timed xx:02, xx:06, xx:32, xx:36 so effectively 2tph!

The Norwood Junction stops in the Gatwick to Bedford service don't appear to be particularly useful for anything as southbound the previous train from the Sydenham line arrives 10 minutes earlier southbound and the previous train from Crystal Palace arrives 16 minutes earlier and northbound, the gap to a Sydenham line service is gap is 15 minutes to the Sydenham line and 20 minutes to the Crystal Palace line. It is perhaps reasonable to say that they offer Thameslink to West Croydon connections but that is achievable at London Bridge on the Epsom service.

 

[ctrh136]

I responded to the consultation. The new timetable does not at all resemble that proposed during the consultation. It is particularly bad for Caterham (CAT). Instead of Tattenham Corner (TAT) services arriving first at Purley in the am peak, services from CAT will arrive first and will have to wait for 7 minutes at Purley. You could say it was time that TAT was give preferential treatment, as CAT has had it better for so long. Also, there will be 20 minute gaps between some trains, not 16 at present. I see many people taking the 407 Bus to Whyteleafe and walking to Upper Warlingham.

Services from Purley also look considerably worse than at present, with approaching 30 min gaps for fast trains to London (Not CAT/TAT).

There is now only one train from Epsom to Guildford, leaving a huge 1 hour 40 minute gap for services from Epsom to Guildford (No SWR trains during this period).

This really is appalling timetabling and services for a busy commuter railway.

Though the gapping on the Caterham line is worse I think that the am peak trains between CAT and ECR take about the same time as they do now (28 mins) as the current timetable has an extra 2/3 mins allowance between Kenley and Purley so the CAT portion can arrive first if the TAT portion is running late.

I'm not keen on what they've done off peak though for trains towards London, I usually use UWL (upper warlingham) and even though WHY (whyteleafe) has 4 trains an hour all of them are useless for anyone who would otherwise use UWL:
(ie. trains from WHY depart as xx:25,xx:35 etc. with UWL at xx:32 - but the xx:32 from UWL arrives at ECR before the xx:25 as that is the train that attaches to the TAT portion at Purley and the xx:35 is only 3 mins after the UWL train)
Same issue happens on Sundays with both trains departing at the same times each hour.

 

[tsr]

First post here, but a long time lurker. Railway enthusiast since I was a kid. I commute daily from Rye to The City using the Marshlink and the Javelins from Ashford. Season ticket cost £7188.

There’s quite a bit of bad feeling down here about the timetable changes. See here :
http://www.ryenews.org.uk/news/southerns-new-timetable

The 0706/1800 Rye shuttle that many of us use is invariably the first to be cancelled when there’s any 171 problems on our line or Uckfield. These are pretty regular. It was also one of the first to be pulled on strike days - despite the fact the line is not DOO. Now the time of the shuttles are changing, but to commuters further detriment - we will hit a 6 coach train at Ashford, assuming the shuttle runs in the first place. We’ve also lost the through train to Brighton. Overcrowding at weekends on the two coach 171’s is appalling - but there has been no response to our suggestions that Soutgern pull a couple of four coach units from (quiet at weekends) Uckfield Line to provide some relief.

I responded to the consultation. Everything regular users suggest seems to be ignored. Even the spare unit released by the changes is going to be stored at Selhurst - so it can presumably be used for Uckfield.

Sorry for the downbeat tone of my first post. Just another whingeing commuter who doesn’t understand the realities of running a railway ? Maybe. But IMHO, Marshlink and its loyal commuters surely deserve a much needed boost sooner rather than later.

To any naysayers out there - come and try the line and let me know your impressions. We’re a friendly bunch, the Southern staff are invariably good people - we just need something back.

Mike

From the perspective of someone who knows both the Marshlink and Uckfield routes...

- The reason the Rye shuttles are pulled on strike days is precisely because the trains are not DOO. There is still a lot of bad feeling at Eastbourne depot, whose conductors crew the Marshlink, about the changeover to DOO (the debate of which we shall leave to other threads) and the split of the depot between OBSs and conductors. This means that it is entirely likely that on an RMT conductors' (and ex-conductors', ie. OBSs') strike day, there will not be sufficient conductors booking on duty to run a half-hourly service.

- A couple of four coach units might perhaps be able to be pulled from the pool at Selhurst at weekends - but they're a long way from the maintenance depot which will be using the same weekends to take advantage of fewer units being needed for traffic. Most of the repairs and exams needed cannot be done on the South Coast at St Leonards, so transferring them there means that you can't even maintain them overnight - only clean and refuel them, really!

- The Uckfield Line route is incredibly busy now at weekends - generally more than off-peak trains on weekdays. Trains are almost always formed of 4 coaches, although this can sometimes change. On Saturdays, morning services to London, and evening services back out, are typically full and standing.

- The occasions when the Rye shuttles will be cancelled due to a unit fault will generally be when the fault has occurred during Marshlink workings. It is very rare indeed for anybody to hold off moving a train from Selhurst down to the Eastbourne area because of a unit fault, because they are prepped on the maintenance depot - but when this does happen, the trains are generally balanced out ASAP. It's quite a headache to work it all out, and sometimes it does unravel, but very rarely. A lot of the transfers are done overnight, so you wouldn't necessarily see them happening.

- The two coach trains are busy on the Marshlink, but the new "overlap" on the East Coastway between Eastbourne and Hastings should help alleviate this, as there will now be one more train per hour on this stretch. Beyond that, it's difficult to say what can happen. The best suggestion was to keep the ex-Scotrail Turbostars as 3-coach trains to become a dedicated microfleet of longer units for the Marsh. Nobody really seems to know why this didn't happen.

 

[JonathanH]

- The two coach trains are busy on the Marshlink, but the new "overlap" on the East Coastway between Eastbourne and Hastings should help alleviate this, as there will now be one more train per hour on this stretch. Beyond that, it's difficult to say what can happen. The best suggestion was to keep the ex-Scotrail Turbostars as 3-coach trains to become a dedicated microfleet of longer units for the Marsh. Nobody really seems to know why this didn't happen.

If Southern had had a better experience with the Scottish 171s, what would they have used 170416-170420 for? More trains on the Uckfield line or more capacity on the Marsh?

 

[swt_passenger]

No, this is a common thing where a stopping train close to its destination is followed by a faster service going further down the line. You could argue that it is timed perfectly for people to connect from stations east of Woking into the stations south of Guildford.

Another good explanation of why this happens. Planned connection rather than cock-up...

 

[Argyle_mikey]

From the perspective of someone who knows both the Marshlink and Uckfield routes...

- The reason the Rye shuttles are pulled on strike days is precisely because the trains are not DOO. There is still a lot of bad feeling at Eastbourne depot, whose conductors crew the Marshlink, about the changeover to DOO (the debate of which we shall leave to other threads) and the split of the depot between OBSs and conductors. This means that it is entirely likely that on an RMT conductors' (and ex-conductors', ie. OBSs') strike day, there will not be sufficient conductors booking on duty to run a half-hourly service.

- A couple of four coach units might perhaps be able to be pulled from the pool at Selhurst at weekends - but they're a long way from the maintenance depot which will be using the same weekends to take advantage of fewer units being needed for traffic. Most of the repairs and exams needed cannot be done on the South Coast at St Leonards, so transferring them there means that you can't even maintain them overnight - only clean and refuel them, really!

- The Uckfield Line route is incredibly busy now at weekends - generally more than off-peak trains on weekdays. Trains are almost always formed of 4 coaches, although this can sometimes change. On Saturdays, morning services to London, and evening services back out, are typically full and standing.

- The occasions when the Rye shuttles will be cancelled due to a unit fault will generally be when the fault has occurred during Marshlink workings. It is very rare indeed for anybody to hold off moving a train from Selhurst down to the Eastbourne area because of a unit fault, because they are prepped on the maintenance depot - but when this does happen, the trains are generally balanced out ASAP. It's quite a headache to work it all out, and sometimes it does unravel, but very rarely. A lot of the transfers are done overnight, so you wouldn't necessarily see them happening.

- The two coach trains are busy on the Marshlink, but the new "overlap" on the East Coastway between Eastbourne and Hastings should help alleviate this, as there will now be one more train per hour on this stretch. Beyond that, it's difficult to say what can happen. The best suggestion was to keep the ex-Scotrail Turbostars as 3-coach trains to become a dedicated microfleet of longer units for the Marsh. Nobody really seems to know why this didn't happen.

Good post, thanks for the detailed info. I commuted from Eridge for years, and left just before the 10 coach trains arrived. I’m clearly unlucky !

The only thing I’d take issue with are those much-vaunted benefits of the overlap. Southern are very keen to promote this - but it does absolutely nothing to ease the problems between Hastings and Ashford. Rye in particular can get very busy at weekends. But “out of sight, out of mind” seems to be their mantra on this one - except on Bonfire night, of course, when a 4 car unit magically appears.

Mike

 

[sarahj]

Most of the changes on many trains are to improve the resilience of services. If your train is 5 mins late each day, or making other trains late, times will be changing. The main change of the Ashfords is the overcrowding. All last week I've been seeing them full and standing from Brighton. The change to a 4 car on the core route will improve things, and since the Ashords will be the stoppers between Eastbourne and Hastings, then with fast in front, this will clear out punters to mainly folks who want Rye and Ashford.
As for Advertising. There are posters, ad's on all the train platform displays. I've made announcements. The big change for staff will just be learning the new times after many years of things not changing.
Anyway, all the moaners, be thankful you dont travel between Glynde and Berwick. Out side of the few rush hours, the train an hour goes to one train stopping at one, but not the other and VV.
Or the oddness of even Brighton to Lewes. Great 6x hour, great all stop at Falmer, a very busy station, but of these, 5 stop at MCB and only 4 stop at London rd, which is twice as busy as MCB, and times will be odd. LRB to LWS. 14,24-44,54. So 10 mins, then 20 mins, then 10.

Because of the odd stopping patterns, most drivers think they will all be off track by the end of the first week for stopping/ not stopping out of turn.

Anyway. Everyone has noise cancelling headphones, so I'm not sure who is listening to what I have to say anyway.

 

[radamfi]

Quite right. The trumpeting of improvements is galling when so many people are having their commute made worse. The station PA announcing the changes is talking about improvements and it makes my blood boil. My commute is Balcombe to Victoria. All direct trains gone (as expected from consultation) but the TL trains are down to from 2 kph to 1 tph which was not in the consultation. The morning peak trains don't stop Gatwick which forces a change to a packed train at East Croydon. The off peak increase to 2 kph is of no use to me.

No Up trains between 06.57 and 07.56, ouch!

And both of those are Thameslink ex-Littlehampton, which I suspect will be wedged on arrival at Balcombe. Double ouch!

It might be better to change at Haywards Heath. There are trains from Balcombe to Haywards Heath at 0716 and 0746.

 

[tsr]

A lot of the changes also seem to pull station calls which have caused antisocial behaviour or had ticketing issues in the past. One suspects there have been insufficient people buying tickets on some trains, so some stops have been pulled.

Evening and late-night Uckfield trains will no longer call at Norwood Junction. Norwood passengers caused significant overcrowding and trouble on those trains, including a considerable amount of unauthorised use of First Class.

Similar applies to New Cross Gate calls on some services.

A number of Faygate passengers have been known to buy “short” fares starting and finishing at Crawley. Consequence: no real improvement to service that I can see.

Reduced early morning service to Guildford. Previously, all trains ran in service part of the way there, but now there are more ECS moves. I would be surprised if there are any meaningful statistics relating to tickets for those trains.

I could go on...

 

[Sunset route]

Because of the odd stopping patterns, most drivers think they will all be off track by the end of the first week for stopping/ not stopping out of turn.

I wouldn’t worry, because of the way that had to virtually change every servce group WTT train IDs, there is the potential for a good chance that there is going to be a lot of wrong routes as well, as the the way they have reallocated the letters from one service group old timetable to the new service group with the incoming timetable, especially when quite a few didn’t really need changing. It looks like change for change sake!