Special Traffic Notice Appeal & Query

[Andy873]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry to harp on about my old branch line, (the Great Harwood loop / Padiham branch / North Lancs loop) but it's quite clear that the summer excursions, be it day or holiday ones for the stations Great Harwood & Padiham are just not shown in my WTT's.

One of the main irritations (during the closure meeting between BR management and staff, 13 May 1964) was the staff thought the income from these "special" trains should have be included i.e. BR said the line was loosing 3,600 per annum but refused to consider the income from these specials.

To that end, do any of you lovely people have any STN's covering the LM region (central lines, Todmorden to Preston) from 1962 to 1964? and if so would you be willing to have a look for me with regards to both stations - Great Harwood & Padiham?

One more thing, if I was looking to buy an STN covering these stations, what would the front cover mention?

London Midland Region - for sure.
Central Lines?
Todmorden to Preston?
Section F?

I'm asking this one because my WTT's up to and including the winter 1963 states central lines, section F. However the summer 1964 one says North Western Line, Section H - both say Todmorden to Preston and branches.

Could anyone help please with this?

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Whilst fully appreciating your quest to uncover as much detail and ‘colour’ about your local line surely the main point was that the Beeching ‘Reshaping’ report had already sounded the death knell for ‘spare’ coaching stock.

The most commonly referenced data is that 6,000 occasionally-used coaches ‘cost’ £3,400,000 but only ‘earned’ £500,000. So it was irrelevant how much of the £500,000 had originated from Great Harwood because it certainly wouldn’t be forthcoming in future.

Lines and services would have to live or die on the basis of their ‘regular’ passenger and freight traffic, not excursions.

 

[Magdalia]

To that end, do any of you lovely people have any STN's covering the LM region (central lines, Todmorden to Preston) from 1962 to 1964? and if so would you be willing to have a look for me with regards to both stations - Great Harwood & Padiham?

One more thing, if I was looking to buy an STN covering these stations, what would the front cover mention?

London Midland Region - for sure.
Central Lines?
Todmorden to Preston?
Section F?

I'm asking this one because my WTT's up to and including the winter 1963 states central lines, section F. However the summer 1964 one says North Western Line, Section H - both say Todmorden to Preston and branches.

On the Eastern Region Special Traffic Notices (STNs) covered a wider area than a single working timetable (WTT).

The areas covered and names given to both WTTs and STNs weren't fixed, and could be affected by regional and/or divisional boundary changes.

Looking at single STNs is very hit and miss for finding useful information. What you really need is to find an archive that has been bequeathed relevant STN collections where it easier to count what's missing than what's there, and it is possible to visit and read them.

 

[zwk500]

It is worth bearing in mind that documents like STNs are very unlikely to have been kept - they were issue for specific days/weeks/periods and once finished with had no further use. The odd conscientious or nostalgic signaller/train planner may have kept them either for particularly notable trains or in case something similar happened again next year and there'd been a bit of 'on the day' finishing that needed to make the day run. It's different from WTTs which would have been needed for 6 months or more and would have been kept as reference in bigger office or by more interested signalmen.
When the BR offices were being cleared out I suspect any surviving STNs were sent to the incinerator, you can ask the NRM archive but don't expect many to have survived.

 

[Hadrian]

I was involved in editing STNs in 1972/3. A proportion of passenger train and related empty stock and light engine movements were not included in the weekly notices (our region was divided into four sections each with its own weekly notice) because the details were not available in time for the deadline for the notice being sent to the printers. Further additions, amendments and cancellations (for trains in the WTTs and the weekly STNs) were documented in single page notices which had a very short time period between the deadline for readiness for distribution and the earliest moment for the content to apply. Single page notices normally included the related amendments to coaching stock and locomotive diagrams and also additional or altered traincrew workings. A notice could be finalised, reproduced and distributed (to the relevant stations, yards, signalboxes, traincrew depots and control offices) in not much more than six hours. So a notice finalised at the end of the working day could apply to a train running very early in the morning of the following day. Each single sheet notice was only distributed to the stations, yards, signalboxes, traincrew depots and control offices affected by its contents. Weekly STNs were distributed to all locations within their section of the region.

I expect that excursion trains and relief trains would generally have been included in the weekly STNs because they were planned sufficiently far in advance. The related empty stock, light engine and traincrew workings were frequently not finalised in time for the deadline for the weekly STNs and would then have been documented on single sheet notices. Weekly STNs did not include coaching stock, locomotive and traincrew workings. They were documented separately to a similar timescale to the weekly STNs.

 

[Magdalia]

I expect that excursion trains and relief trains would generally have been included in the weekly STNs because they were planned sufficiently far in advance. The related empty stock, light engine and traincrew workings were frequently not finalised in time for the deadline for the weekly STNs and would then have been documented on single sheet notices.

Thanks for this. I'd wondered why the STNs didn't usually include the associated ECS moves.

 

[Andy873]

Thanks everyone for the replies, interesting stuff.

Yes I see what your saying, I guess finding one that mentions the two stations for specific dates / years would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. With lots of paperwork constantly heading your way, and especially single sheets of paper only covering one specific day most would just have been screwed up and thrown away when no longer needed.