Snow1964
Established Member
When the 222s are replaced by 810s they will be about 21 years old, too early to scrap, but possibly not easiest to find a home for.
Ignoring for now if a Rosco would make them uneconomic to lease, have to accept world has moved on since they were conceived at turn of the century, when pure diesel trains were ok.
Treating the Meridian, and those that were originally branded Pioneer as one fleet, have 54 driving cars and 89 intermediate cars, so regardless of history (with 4car and 9car formations) what could be done.
My idea is can assume 15 years life left, maybe bit more with extensive work. So economically vast amounts of new equipment are not viable, basically want to stick with what you have and modify cheaply.
Firstly I am not convinced that any operators really want 4car express sets, 5cars are common (because they can be used in multiple), but seems to me open access operators don't really like double sets as difficult to staff, cater, check tickets etc. So let's assume ideally want 6car, maybe 7car to allow bit of growth.
So got enough for 23 (6car) sets, with few spares, or 20 sets (7car). So question is what to do. My suggestion is modify some driving cars (just the cab end, minimum work to save cost), rebuild just that end as intermediate car with pantograph well. So can have 25kv electric power.
I don't think there is any need for so much diesel power going forward, as probably not going to get much above 100mph off the wires, so removing some engines is ok. Bonus of this is it gives spare engines which would be useful as trains age. Would also have gained some spare cab fittings.
If got couple of engines less, could you fit transformers in their place (and not ruling out pairs of secondhand ones from class 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 340 etc. not all have yet been scrapped). Worst case is would need new transformers. Even if there is one pantograph, two transformers in different vehicles where 2 diesels were removed spreads the weight. Yes will still need some other configuration changes, but not impossible. Could even add a battery pack to each set (based on expected 15-20 year remaining life).
Seems to me, for fairly reasonable investment could be getting a fleet of around 20 bi-mode (or with battery making them multi-mode) which is lot cheaper than brand new trains (even if new have twice the lifespan). But more importantly what would happen to them over next 15 years if kept them as 125mph diesel only trains. It would be wasteful to just store them for years then scrap them.
I realise a Rosco may prefer them stored, as it helps push up lease rates for other trains due to their scarcity. So regardless of engineering practicality, increasing overall railway costs might be seen as easy option.
Wondering if anyone else thinks this could work, or it retaining them as diesel only into 2030s is more viable. I am also assuming that during 2030s some bi-modes could be cascaded because their routes have become fully electric, so this is more a 10-15 year stopgap plan than long term one into 2060s.
Ignoring for now if a Rosco would make them uneconomic to lease, have to accept world has moved on since they were conceived at turn of the century, when pure diesel trains were ok.
Treating the Meridian, and those that were originally branded Pioneer as one fleet, have 54 driving cars and 89 intermediate cars, so regardless of history (with 4car and 9car formations) what could be done.
My idea is can assume 15 years life left, maybe bit more with extensive work. So economically vast amounts of new equipment are not viable, basically want to stick with what you have and modify cheaply.
Firstly I am not convinced that any operators really want 4car express sets, 5cars are common (because they can be used in multiple), but seems to me open access operators don't really like double sets as difficult to staff, cater, check tickets etc. So let's assume ideally want 6car, maybe 7car to allow bit of growth.
So got enough for 23 (6car) sets, with few spares, or 20 sets (7car). So question is what to do. My suggestion is modify some driving cars (just the cab end, minimum work to save cost), rebuild just that end as intermediate car with pantograph well. So can have 25kv electric power.
I don't think there is any need for so much diesel power going forward, as probably not going to get much above 100mph off the wires, so removing some engines is ok. Bonus of this is it gives spare engines which would be useful as trains age. Would also have gained some spare cab fittings.
If got couple of engines less, could you fit transformers in their place (and not ruling out pairs of secondhand ones from class 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 340 etc. not all have yet been scrapped). Worst case is would need new transformers. Even if there is one pantograph, two transformers in different vehicles where 2 diesels were removed spreads the weight. Yes will still need some other configuration changes, but not impossible. Could even add a battery pack to each set (based on expected 15-20 year remaining life).
Seems to me, for fairly reasonable investment could be getting a fleet of around 20 bi-mode (or with battery making them multi-mode) which is lot cheaper than brand new trains (even if new have twice the lifespan). But more importantly what would happen to them over next 15 years if kept them as 125mph diesel only trains. It would be wasteful to just store them for years then scrap them.
I realise a Rosco may prefer them stored, as it helps push up lease rates for other trains due to their scarcity. So regardless of engineering practicality, increasing overall railway costs might be seen as easy option.
Wondering if anyone else thinks this could work, or it retaining them as diesel only into 2030s is more viable. I am also assuming that during 2030s some bi-modes could be cascaded because their routes have become fully electric, so this is more a 10-15 year stopgap plan than long term one into 2060s.
