Speed limiters on new build cars

[Philip]

Do you think that all new cars should be fitted with a speed limiter of 75mph from the build? The two main benefits are obviously improved road safety and also reducing pollution/saving fuel as a result of vehicles not being impacted so much by air resistance and lower revving of the engine.

I think 70mph would be a little too low as sometimes people need to speed up and go above the road limit to get out of the way and avoid a potential accident, so 75 or 80mph would help in this way. However, there is no reason anyone should be travelling above 80mph, so why not have speed limiters on all new cars for the reasons given?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Do you think that all new cars should be fitted with a speed limiter of 75mph from the build?

No. First point is you can actually do 77mph. Second point is there are situations where going beyond such speeds is acceptable (taking someone in your vehicle to A&E in an emergency, for instance) if the road and conditions are suitable. Third point is where do where the line is drawn with who doesn't need a limiter. Fourth point is vehicles that produce co2 are going the way of the dodo anyways, so what's the point? Fifth point is criminals and people who aren't ones for following the rules of the road, will find ways around such limiters anyways, so again, what's the point?

However, there is no reason anyone should be travelling above 80mph

Emergency services, the aforementioned reason, fleeing from a life endangering incident, overtaking a vehicle doing 80mph.

 

[Philip]

No. First point is you can actually do 77mph. Second point is there are situations where going beyond such speeds is acceptable (taking someone in your vehicle to A&E in an emergency, for instance) if the road and conditions are suitable. Third point is where do where the line is drawn with who doesn't need a limiter. Fourth point is vehicles that produce co2 are going the way of the dodo anyways, so what's the point? Fifth point is criminals and people who aren't ones for following the rules of the road, will find ways around such limiters anyways, so again, what's the point?

Emergency services, the aforementioned reason, fleeing from a life endangering incident, overtaking a vehicle doing 80mph.

To respond to each point;

First point: The limit is 70, just because there is a few mph leeway before you can be booked up doesn't change the fact that you are breaking the speed limit.

Second: Emergency vehicles I think should be an exception and these are at least easy to notice and prepare for because of sirens and flashing lights, but with roads as busy as they are nowadays there are very few situations where it is safe for a non-emergency vehicle to be travelling at much over 80mph, even on a motorway.

Third: Emergency vehicles only.

Fourth: Petrol and diesel vehicles will be being built for many more years to come yet, the technology isn't good enough for electric and hybrid only.

Fifth: That’s just your own assumption, such a system could be designed so that it is all but impossible to remove the limiter or find a way around it.

 

[LOL The Irony]

First point: The limit is 70, just because there is a few mph leeway before you can be booked up doesn't change the fact that you are breaking the speed limit.

A car registering 70 on the speedometer can be doing a speed of 77, which is why the leeway exists.

Fourth: Petrol and diesel vehicles will be being built for many more years to come yet, the technology isn't good enough for electric and hybrid only.

With zero emission vehicles becoming more common, manufacturers will get to the point where they won't offer any ICE vehicles in certain markets as nobody will want them.

Second: Emergency vehicles I think should be an exception and these are at least easy to notice and prepare for because of sirens and flashing lights, but with roads as busy as they are nowadays there are very few situations where it is safe for a non-emergency vehicle to be travelling at much over 80mph, even on a motorway.

Third: Emergency vehicles only.

That's good and all, but then...

Fifth: That’s just your own assumption, such a system could be designed so that it is all but impossible to remove the limiter or find a way around it.

It leaves a hole in this. For instance, police cars aren't built as police cars, they're converted before entering service. So it all it takes is someone at one of these conversion companies leaving and taking the knowledge with them and it's bye bye limiter.

 

[Skymonster]

With zero emission vehicles becoming more common…

There is no such thing as a zero-emissions vehicle - anyone who thinks there is, is rather naive

 

[LOL The Irony]

There is no such thing as a zero-emissions vehicle - anyone who thinks there is, is rather naive

I mean yes, but that's for another thread.

 

[Ediswan]

A car registering 70 on the speedometer can be doing a speed of 77, which is why the leeway exists.

It is the other way round. A speedometer must never show less than the actual speed.

 

[75A]

Any decent software engineer with a laptop would be able to 'tweek' the limiter in seconds just like they remap cars (including mine) at the moment.

 

[Ediswan]

Any decent software engineer with a laptop would be able to 'tweek' the limiter in seconds just like they remap cars (including mine) at the moment.

Not "any", that is a specialised task.

 

[75A]

Not "any", that is a specialised task.

Depends what circles you're in

 

[pdq]

Bragging rights about a car's theoretical top speed is becoming less of a 'thing' with EVs. Many have top speeds somewhat less than 100mph but this is no longer seen as a problem to buyers and reviewers. This is probably because power delivery is more linear, so there's no need to have excess power in order to comfortably reach and maintain motorway speeds.

In all my recent motorway journeys on the M62 and M1, only one vehicle has passed me at a stupid speed. However, plenty have done so in 30 limits, where excess speed is far, far more dangerous, and is a use case where speed limiters at 70 would be pointless.

 

[Ken H]

Bragging rights about a car's theoretical top speed is becoming less of a 'thing' with EVs. Many have top speeds somewhat less than 100mph but this is no longer seen as a problem to buyers and reviewers. This is probably because power delivery is more linear, so there's no need to have excess power in order to comfortably reach and maintain motorway speeds.

In all my recent motorway journeys on the M62 and M1, only one vehicle has passed me at a stupid speed. However, plenty have done so in 30 limits, where excess speed is far, far more dangerous, and is a use case where speed limiters at 70 would be pointless.

Limiting speeds in a 30 zone is more important than on the motorway imho. But that wont stop the prats who accelerate and brake hard in traffic for no good reason.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do you think that all new cars should be fitted with a speed limiter of 75mph from the build? The two main benefits are obviously improved road safety and also reducing pollution/saving fuel as a result of vehicles not being impacted so much by air resistance and lower revving of the engine.

I think 70mph would be a little too low as sometimes people need to speed up and go above the road limit to get out of the way and avoid a potential accident, so 75 or 80mph would help in this way. However, there is no reason anyone should be travelling above 80mph, so why not have speed limiters on all new cars for the reasons given?

Ferries and Eurotunnel mean British Cars aren’t self contained to this island, so how would that work driving abroad?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would need to be set to 130km/h (about 80mph) so as to be able to do the limit (recommended limit, in Germany's case) on European motorways. But I wouldn't oppose one set to 130km/h, no.

On the other hand, smart motorways (give or take their other faults) and high fuel costs have changed the game, with the prevailing motorway speed in the UK no longer being 85-90 but more like 70 and a bit.

 

[EssexGonzo]

As referred to, other factors are limiting the desire to speed.

Smart motorways with many (often average speed) cameras have made me change my driving habits. I now cruise at 75 indicated rather than (cough) a little more in the past. The impact on a regular Essex to Bolton drag is under 10 minutes. And it’s a much more relaxing drive.

Secondly, EVs. As said already, the paucity of the current charging infrastructure naturally reduces the desire to have to stop and charge. My own observation is that you tend to see EVs rolling and or below the limits on a motorway.

And thirdly, Volvo already limits the speed of all new cars to 180 km/h globally, as part of their ongoing safety push. More will follow and nobody seems to be bleating about it. I wouldn’t rule out lower limits as we move towards EVs and there will be little resistance.

 

[SeanG]

Another thing to think about is what about those of us who do track days etc.? Clearly a speed limiter would render them a bit pointless. Why should we be penalised because some people can't stick to the law and drive at the speed limit on the road?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another thing to think about is what about those of us who do track days etc.? Clearly a speed limiter would render them a bit pointless. Why should we be penalised because some people can't stick to the law and drive at the speed limit on the road?

Some form of override for this context could be provided, however if caught with the override applied on a public road it would be fine+points.

The vast majority of people do not need such an override, however.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s a slightly superfluous question, as from 6 July all newly launched cars sold in the EU will be fitted with limiters as standard. And it is very, very likely the U.K. will adopt the sam.

 

[mmh]

Something not mentioned, and never is in these sorts of discussions, is it's not unknown for the emergency services to escort a "civilian" car at above the speed limit. It is also possible to successfully argue mitigating circumstances to a court.

Some form of override for this context could be provided, however if caught with the override applied on a public road it would be fine+points.

The vast majority of people do not need such an override, however.

Do we also need to restrict acceleration then? It is legal to drive an Ariel Atom on the road, but is that extreme below speed limit performance safe?

 

[Ediswan]

It’s a slightly superfluous question, as from 6 July all newly launched cars sold in the EU will be fitted with limiters as standard. And it is very, very likely the U.K. will adopt the sam.

Authoritative detail on how these will work is not easy to find. The impression I get is that it will not be a 'hard' limit, it will be possible to override it, somehow.

I did once find the EU regulation, which appeared to preclude 'black box' data from being used in a prosecution. UK may not take the same view.

 

[Bald Rick]

The impression I get is that it will not be a 'hard' limit, it will be possible to override it, somehow.

AIUI it will be able to be overridden, yes.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfortunately the whole speed limiter idea is misguided because all UK maps are inaccurate. There are hundreds of locations where road alterations and speed limit updates have historically been missed, and mapping companies are lazy, they wait for someone to advise them of a change, not routinely send out their own surveyors to validate the maps.

Then there are problems with inaccurate calibration, recently in London a new bus safety standard meant speed limiters (called Intelligent Speed Assist or ISA) and buses were being limited to 17-18mph in 20mph (formerly 30mph) zones. Rather encourages dangerous overtaking.

Even TfL (Transport for London) says lower speed limits reduce severe injuries in a collision. It is selective PR, they can’t say reduces collisions, as data shows lower limits result in less care being taken and more collisions.

So if speed limiters cause more collisions as it reduces driver care, what misguided people managed to force it through.

 

[Ediswan]

Personally, I like manually set speed limiters. If cruising the more deserted parts of the M6, French Autoroutes, or in free-flowing urban areas, set to suit. It guards against the temptation to go a bit faster.

 

[SeanG]

Personally, I like manually set speed limiters. If cruising the more deserted parts of the M6, French Autoroutes, or in free-flowing urban areas, set to suit. It guards against the temptation to go a bit faster.

I agree, this or cruise control is very handy. It can be easy to misjudge speed on an unlit and empty dual carriageway at night and creep over 70 without realising.

 

[75A]

Personally, I like manually set speed limiters. If cruising the more deserted parts of the M6, French Autoroutes, or in free-flowing urban areas, set to suit. It guards against the temptation to go a bit faster.

A lot of modern cars including mine already have this

 

[biko]

AIUI it will be able to be overridden, yes.

Correct, it is obligatory for manufacturers to include the system, but it only has to show advice to slow down. This can be a light, sound or pressure on the pedal. It can be disabled, but it has to be enabled by default if you restart the car.

Even TfL (Transport for London) says lower speed limits reduce severe injuries in a collision.

That's logical, as lower speeds mean lower kinetic energy and thus less impact in a collision. Why do you say 'even'?

It is selective PR, they can’t say reduces collisions, as data shows lower limits result in less care being taken and more collisions.

Do you have a source for that? I would be interested to see data showing more collisions with lower speeds. But if that would be true, those collisions still have less impact due to the lower speeds, so then it would be interesting to compare collisions with casualties instead of counting all of them.

 

[DelW]

Authoritative detail on how these will work is not easy to find. The impression I get is that it will not be a 'hard' limit, it will be possible to override it, somehow.

I did once find the EU regulation, which appeared to preclude 'black box' data from being used in a prosecution. UK may not take the same view.

Information from the RAC states that manufacturers will be allowed to install systems that sound a warning but don't cut engine power:

Mandatory speed limiters set for UK cars ‘can be overridden’ | RAC Drive

www.rac.co.uk

The ETSC had been pushing for a system that cuts engine power once the legal speed limit has been reached. It says systems that intervene this way could reduce road deaths by 20%.

However, after industry pressure, the EU is also allowing a more basic system that plays an audio warning a few moments after the vehicle exceeds the speed limit.

My main concern is that these systems use GPS and sign recognition, neither of which are accurate or reliable enough to be allowed to interfere in the running of a vehicle. This is both from personal experience and from others' comments in this forum.

 

[Ediswan]

My current car has the GPS and camera systems to display the current speed limit on the dashboard. However, it is display only. It is not connected to the speedometer or engine. No warnings, no intervention.

One snag were the same technology to be connected to a speed limiter is this. It only changes the displayed limit as the car passes the point where the limit changes. In the common scenario where a country road drops from 60 to 30, it will continue to display 60 right up to the point where the 30 limit applies. There is no anticipation. That is fine as is, I can read the road and slow down in advance. It would not be fine if drivers started to get into the habit of relying on the new-fangled speed limiter to keep them within the limit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My current car has the GPS and camera systems to display the current speed limit on the dashboard. However, it is display only. It is not connected to the speedometer or engine. No warnings, no intervention.

One snag were the same technology to be connected to a speed limiter is this. It only changes the displayed limit as the car passes the point where the limit changes. In the common scenario where a country road drops from 60 to 30, it will continue to display 60 right up to the point where the 30 limit applies. There is no anticipation. That is fine as is, I can read the road and slow down in advance. It would not be fine if drivers started to get into the habit of relying on the new-fangled speed limiter to keep them within the limit.

Will they, though? A lot of drivers already have this facility - it's built into Waze and other sat-navs. I like it because it makes me less likely to speed by mistake. I also make extensive use of my car's manual limiter, and would love it if I didn't have to keep faffing about switching it up and down.

 

[Ken H]

Will they, though? A lot of drivers already have this facility - it's built into Waze and other sat-navs. I like it because it makes me less likely to speed by mistake. I also make extensive use of my car's manual limiter, and would love it if I didn't have to keep faffing about switching it up and down.

my limiter is a pain (Thanks Peugeot). You have to click the thing 10 times to change 10mph. Why. Are there any 35mph speed limits? It is an old car tho. one click for each 10 mph would do it.