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St. Albans Flyer Discussion

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class 313

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Never noticed a headboard on the Lymmie before.

Anyway, the City Fliers were called the City "Fliers" because they were faster than the other services - all station stoppers.

Thats actually wrong,

They were called fliers cos they were fast from St Albans to Kings Cross, as the City Metros stopped at all the stations between St Albans and Kings Cross.

You will find at most cases, if a City Metro depart Kings Cross Thameslink before your city flier, then you would most probably overtake at at Elstree and Borehamwood (If put on the Fast lines) So in theory you just skimming 5/7 mins of the metro time, but that isnt always the case, as sometimes you will be put behind the City Metro thus not saving any time at all. Although it is quicker (If put on the fast lines), its not why they have their names...
 
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Tom

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Source?

I always used the theory that they were CityFliers as they "flew" (ie, fast services) between Bedford and Brighton, with the CityMetros serving the suburban districts in a "metro" fashion.
 

class 313

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Source?

I always used the theory that they were CityFliers as they "flew" (ie, fast services) between Bedford and Brighton, with the CityMetros serving the suburban districts in a "metro" fashion.

Well,

The only "Fast" bits (With Metros and Fliers together...) is between Kings Cross and St Albans, north of St Albans is stations for both Fliers and Metros, up to Luton that is, where the Metros terminate....
 

Daniel

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And then the Fliers continue.

The point is, "Fliers" are faster than "Metros" - that's why they're called "Fliers", that's what I said previously, and if you dispute it, then you need to buy a timetable.
 

class 313

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And then the Fliers continue.

The point is, "Fliers" are faster than "Metros" - that's why they're called "Fliers", that's what I said previously, and if you dispute it, then you need to buy a timetable.

But,

When Fliers are put behind the metros which a lot are, then they are not faster at all... also, why buy when you can pick one up or download ;)
 

Daniel

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But,

When Fliers are put behind the metros which a lot are, then they are not faster at all...

------------------------------------------------------------------

(Dictionary.com):

Code:
"Faster"

2.	done in comparatively little time; taking a comparatively short time

So it doesn't neccisairly have to go at a higher speed.


From the FCC Timetables:

Code:
0528 From St Albans - [b]Metro[/b]
0552 at West Hampstead TL
0605 at Kings Cross TL
0609 at Farringdon

0558 From St Albans - [b]Flier[/b]
0612 at West Hampstead TL
0625 at Kings Cross TL
0629 at Farringdon


Journey Times:

Metro:

Code:
St Albans - West Hampstead     -   24 minutes
West Hampstead - Kings Cross   -   13 minutes
Kings Cross - Farringdon       -   4 minutes

Flier:

Code:
St Albans - West Hampstead     -   14 minutes
West Hampstead - Kings Cross   -   13 minutes
Kings Cross - Farringdon       -   4 minutes


Total Journey Times:

Code:
[b]Metro[/b]

[i](24+13+4)[/i]

41 minutes

------------------------------

[b]Flier[/b]

[i](14+13+4)[/i]

31 minutes

=======================

Difference: 10 minutes. So, the Flier is faster.
 

class 313

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------------------------------------------------------------------

(Dictionary.com):

Code:
"Faster"

2.    done in comparatively little time; taking a comparatively short time
So it doesn't neccisairly have to go at a higher speed.


From the FCC Timetables:

Code:
0528 From St Albans - [B]Metro[/B]
0552 at West Hampstead TL
0605 at Kings Cross TL
0609 at Farringdon

0558 From St Albans - [B]Flier[/B]
0612 at West Hampstead TL
0625 at Kings Cross TL
0629 at Farringdon
Journey Times:

Metro:

Code:
St Albans - West Hampstead     -   24 minutes
West Hampstead - Kings Cross   -   13 minutes
Kings Cross - Farringdon       -   4 minutes
Flier:

Code:
St Albans - West Hampstead     -   14 minutes
West Hampstead - Kings Cross   -   13 minutes
Kings Cross - Farringdon       -   4 minutes
Total Journey Times:

Code:
[B]Metro[/B]

[I](24+13+4)[/I]

41 minutes

------------------------------

[B]Flier[/B]

[I](14+13+4)[/I]

31 minutes

=======================
Difference: 10 minutes. So, the Flier is faster.

WHEN the fliers are put on the Fastline... Which is not always the case. In fact West Hampstead try and keep the Fliers on the up/down slow do they don't disrupt MML when they turn out at Radlett Jnc.
 

westcoaster

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WHEN the fliers are put on the Fastline... Which is not always the case. In fact West Hampstead try and keep the Fliers on the up/down slow do they don't disrupt MML when they turn out at Radlett Jnc.

it would not disrupt mml unless there was already disruption, they would have a path allocated to them, be it on the slow or fast line, otherwise what the point in a wtt:dontknow:
 

Daniel

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Tom, if its timetabled, those are the times. If a flier is put behind a metro, it doesn't make it any slower - it makes it delayed.
 

class 313

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Tom, if its timetabled, those are the times. If a flier is put behind a metro, it doesn't make it any slower - it makes it delayed.

Ah, but, not all Fliers are timetabled onto the fast, and the ones that are not, you will find they are slower....

So to end this thing of, both of us are right, Fliers are faster than Metros. But the ones that are timetabled behind a Metro, are slower.
 

westcoaster

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Ah, but, not all Fliers are timetabled onto the fast, and the ones that are not, you will find they are slower....

So to end this thing of, both of us are right, Fliers are faster than Metros. But the ones that are timetabled behind a Metro, are slower.

do you have any evidence of this because i believe ths is wrong, why would you timetable a fast train behind a stopper?
 

Daniel

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Ah, but, not all Fliers are timetabled onto the fast, and the ones that are not, you will find they are slower....

So to end this thing of, both of us are right, Fliers are faster than Metros. But the ones that are timetabled behind a Metro, are slower.


Tom, you are wrong!!

A Flier put behind a Metro isn't slower, it's delayed.

It's timetabled to be faster than a metro, that's the point - even if its just a minute faster, it's faster.
If the time between a West Hampstead and St Albans becomes the same for a flier and a metro, then the flier is delayed.
 

ChrisCooper

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The fliers are all booked to use the fast lines at least as far as Radlett Junction, the only exceptions being some that stop at West Hampstead or start all stations running from Elstree. If everything runs to plan, there should be no disruption to MML services, the time you get MML services held up is if the Thameslinks are late, or if the MMLs are late and out of their slot (running behind a flier that they should be infront of). The fliers have quite a bit of slack through London to try and gain back any delays on the Southern section before joining the MML, and it's not uncommon for them to wait a few minutes at Carlton Road or West Hampstead South where they join the fast lines. If fliers use the slow lines they are unable to overtake the preceeding Metro, so will end up delayed, and also suffer from the lower lines speeds (slow lines are mostly 90mph, but there are a lot of slower sections where they diverge for stations, tunnels and Silkstream Junction). Quite a few fliers are booked to use the fast lines beyond Radlett, crossing over at Harpenden, Leagrave, Flitwick or even Bedford. Some of the fliers are booked to run limited stop beyond St Albans, missing out LAP, Leagrave and Harlington. Similar arrangments, where the semi-fast suburban trains share the fast lines with the express services for some distance, particularly on the none stop part, are found on other lines aswell.
 

class 313

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Most FCC trains out of Kings cross get delayed due to the TT not giving the trains enough time to get from Kings x - Kentish town. Thus missing their slot and being put on the slow. 2/3 weeks ago, I raced a Metro to Radlett jnc, both of us slowing for reds, we both stopped for 5 mins until we got the signal, we were on time yet the Metro was delayed cos of this, just shows how much slack FCC trains have...
 

richa2002

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From my experience. Trains going north either cross at Harpenden from the fast to slow or go straight through on the fast (except rush hour). With the xx:55 and xx:25 from Harpenden departing from Harpenden and the xx:10 and xx:40 cross to let the MML past which passes Harpenden at xx:42, xx:47, xx:12 and xx:17.
 
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