St Helens Central - St Helens Junction Rail Link?

[heisenberg1203]

I remember reading a couple of years ago about the possibility of reopening the line that once connected St Helens Shaw Street (Now St Helens Central) and St Helens Junction. Merseytravel seemed to hope that this would happen as part of their long-term strategy. After a little bit of Google'ing, I found this from St Helens Council.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...onsultation responses/s/st helens council.pdf

A re-opened rail link between St Helens Central and St Helens Junction would provide services from the town centre to Manchester/Warrington via Junction. It'd also provide services from St Helens Junction to Wigan/Blackpool/Preston via Central.

As I understand, the line that once ran between these two stations still exists. I don't know a great deal about train infrastructure but obviously if a line still exists, it wouldn't be as much work to re-open the line. Although I understand there would be difficulty in timetabling and other aspects such as available rolling stock and so on.

Does anybody know anymore about the possibility of this service re-opening? It'd be welcome in the town, I'm sure. Haven't heard anything about it in quite some time.

 

[507 001]

The track be is still there, and some of the track at the St. Helens central end is still in situ although fenced off and really, really overgrown!
The connection to the Huyton-Wigan line is still in situ and was renewed not so long ago. It's also fully signalled.

However, as with most transport projects round these parts, I'll believe it when I see it.

Merseytravel seem to be particularly inept when it comes to rail/light rail these days.

 

[The Planner]

No chance I am afraid, Chat Moss is being re-signalled as part of the journey time works and this has no part in it.

 

[DJH1971]

I'd like to see it happen though.

 

[southern442]

I want to ask, what is the problem if the line is overgrown? Surely it is just a matter of cutting the vegetation down and spraying a bit of weed killer on the tracks? Is it really that expensive?

 

[DJH1971]

I want to ask, what is the problem if the line is overgrown? Surely it is just a matter of cutting the vegetation down and spraying a bit of weed killer on the tracks? Is it really that expensive?

In other words, similar to what they're doing right now with the four-tracking at Huyton.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I want to ask, what is the problem if the line is overgrown? Surely it is just a matter of cutting the vegetation down and spraying a bit of weed killer on the tracks? Is it really that expensive?

Reopenings don't work like that.
It would have to meet all the modern standards and the junctions would need remodelliing/resignalling at both ends.
It was left as a decrepit goods line for 30 years or more.

 

[STANDISH]

Are not some the bridges no longer there on the line ?

 

[DJH1971]

Are not some the bridges no longer there on the line ?

There is one crossing Reginald Road that was long demolished, but that was on the branch line going to Widnes from St Helens Central (nee St Helens Shaw Street) and not between St Helens Junction to St Helens Central.

 

[The Planner]

I'm pretty sure a lot of this redundant S&C around St Helens Central station goes when it is resignalled too. There is one factory connection that is staying but i can't remember which at the mo.

 

[Signal Head]

The track be is still there, and some of the track at the St. Helens central end is still in situ although fenced off and really, really overgrown!
The connection to the Huyton-Wigan line is still in situ and was renewed not so long ago. It's also fully signalled.

However, as with most transport projects round these parts, I'll believe it when I see it.

Merseytravel seem to be particularly inept when it comes to rail/light rail these days.

The line is not signalled at all at the St Helens Junction end, and most of it no longer even exists.

When the line was last open there were two boxes between St Helens and Junction:
Ravenhead Junction and Sutton Oak Junction.
SOJ was the fringe box to Warrington PSB at the St Helens Junction end, and had also controlled the line to Widnes.
The SH-SHJ section was taken out of use sometime in the late 1980s I think. Somen time later, the interlocking at SHJ ( worked from Warrington box) was fixed for through running along the Chat Moss lines.
SOJ box probably closed at the same time, as the stub of the Widnes line (to Clock Face colliery) already gone.
Ravenhead closed around 1990, with the line between there and SH worked under One Train Working regs, with a Staff (though the line was still double).
SHJ interlocking stayed in until quite recently, but the junction and track round towards Ravenhead was long gone.
SHJ interlocking was removed, probably at the same time Rainhill fringe box was abolished, and the section converted to Auto signals on Warrington, fringing to Huyton.
So, any reinstatement would require completely new signalling at least at the SHJ end.

 

[STANDISH]

Thanks for that information DJH1971.

I knew there was a bridge out somewhere in the area, when we walked the line some years ago.

 

[Ships]

The track be is still there, and some of the track at the St. Helens central end is still in situ although fenced off and really, really overgrown!
The connection to the Huyton-Wigan line is still in situ and was renewed not so long ago. It's also fully signalled.

However, as with most transport projects round these parts, I'll believe it when I see it.

Merseytravel seem to be particularly inept when it comes to rail/light rail these days.

Now I'm sure I read somewhere that the S&C at the st Helen's central end had been done not long before the traffic to Hayes chemicals stopped.

@the planner: if one of the pilkingtons sidings was to go I would imagin it would be the one to the ravenhead works that was actually put in more recently (it used to come off the central - junction connection.

However I did see that in the redevelopment bumph about the former ravenhead glass works site they did have the rail link as a selling point.

Out of intrest does anyone know if pilkingtons still get deliveries by rail to the other works?

 

[DavidL]

There is not an awful lot, if any, new information in the following, but it did, along with the other aspirations, make the local paper a month or two ago:

http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/10559520.Town_is_on_track_for_joined_up_thinking/

The article discusses the local potential schemes in the Liverpool City Region's proposals, and the Green Party's view on them.

Like the Carr Mill station plan, it has been on (and off!) the agenda for as long as I can recall. The council are clearly very keen, but I guess it will be interesting to see if any funding is forthcoming.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One minor thing to add...
Minutes of a meeting of the LCR body, same date as the article shows the link line and Carr Mill, very much in the "pipeline", rather than the prioritised schemes.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.net/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=264&MId=824

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/10559520.Town_is_on_track_for_joined_up_thinking/

The article discusses the local potential schemes in the Liverpool City Region's proposals, and the Green Party's view on them.

I am sure that the Council will be well aware of all the drawbacks involved with this reopening proposal and would have sought advice on the full amount of works that would be required to effect this reopening. However, this will not have stopped them putting this idea forward in the hope that the project costs could be hidden in the current work programme in the Manchester to Liverpool corridor.

 

[M60lad]

I'm sure that another problem with reopening the line is that despite the line not actually been taken out of use and still owned by Network Rail or whoever that parts of the track have been "Unofficially" removed over the years, the past couple of years I have actually followed the line via the local roads round St Helens area and I'm sure there are parts where there's no railway track down whatsoever.

Its surprising though that all the infrastructure though still exists, the signal just after St Helens Central is still in situ as well as the sign about trespassing on the railway, as for the fencing I think the only reason why that has gone up is due to the amount of gypsies they've had on the line in the past, personally I'd love to see the line converted as cycleway to link both St Helens Junction and St Helens Central stations

 

[The Planner]

The line is still shown as in use from St Helens Station Jn to the boundary with "Leathers Chemicals Ltd" which is a distance of 1 mile 11ch, after that it isn't NR owned track.

 

[HowardGWR]

I am sure that the Council will be well aware of all the drawbacks involved with this reopening proposal and would have sought advice on the full amount of works that would be required to effect this reopening. However, this will not have stopped them putting this idea forward in the hope that the project costs could be hidden in the current work programme in the Manchester to Liverpool corridor.

I am also sure that the formation is protected in the Local Plan, otherwise it would be pointless the local authorities retaining their aspiration for the reconnection. So at least there is no danger for the moment of anyone being allowed to build over it.

The Planner says NR only own some of it, so I wonder who owns the rest? perhaps the said local council? That would be sensible.

 

[Signal Head]

The line is still shown as in use from St Helens Station Jn to the boundary with "Leathers Chemicals Ltd" which is a distance of 1 mile 11ch, after that it isn't NR owned track.

Which is probably the point at which the Private Siding branched off the original through route anyway (I think it was a Ground Frame). I don't think this sees any regular traffic now, in fact I think 'Leathers' plant went some time ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was it about 1975 when the closure of the Leathers Chemicals plant occurred ?

 

[DJH1971]

Was it about 1975 when the closure of the Leathers Chemicals plant occurred ?

I know the line closed in the early 1980's and there was a chemical plant nearby called Sidac which closed.

 

[Bevan Price]

The line remained in use between St. Helens and Sutton Oak (Heyes Chemicals, previously called Leathers), until the factory closed in 2003. The connection at St. Helens Junction was removed in the 1990s - cannot recall the exact date. It was, I understand, a victim of rail sectorisation. Apparently the points at St. Helens Junction were similar to those which caused the fatal derailment of 150.209 at St. Helens Central. Although there was still some freight using the connectiion at St. Helens Junction, the points were apparently the responsibility of Regional Railways sector - and they, having no trains using the branch, would not contribute to the cost of replacing the points. So, rather than replace the points, BR removed them.

The trackbed is largely clear, but overgrown by vegetation in places; also I think there is an inconveniently located relay cabinet at St. Helens Junction. There is nothing other than lack of money and willpower to prevent reopening. The question arises of what kind of service would be provided if it did ever reopen. In my opinion, the only service that might be viable would be from St. Helens to Manchester (or beyond).

There is insufficient travel demand for a St. Helens - Warrington service - even before the Marples-Beeching closure, the main traffic flow was St. Helens to Manchester, with passengers having to change at St. Helens Junction or Earlestown.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The line remained in use between St. Helens and Sutton Oak (Heyes Chemicals, previously called Leathers), until the factory closed in 2003.

I was aware that a company called Hays Chemical Distribution Ltd was situated on Lancots Lane in St Helens. Is that a different chemical company to the one stated in your quote above ?

 

[Ships]

I'm pretty sure they're the same company Paul. There's a vid on YouTube showing a 37 traversing the line just before it closed.

 

[DJH1971]

I'm pretty sure they're the same company Paul. There's a vid on YouTube showing a 37 traversing the line just before it closed.

It is the same company.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is the same company.

It was the two spellings of Hays (mine) and Heyes (Bevan Price) that made me somewhat unsure.

 

[snowball]

The 1990 Quail map has a different spelling from both: "St Helens Hayes Chemicals Leathers Divn.": two sidings, and no track on the route south of that point.

 

[Statto]

I cannot see the line ever being reopened with Electrification of Chat Moss & Huyton to Wigan line. The line passes next to St Helens RLFC stadium Langtree Park, & think would be useful another Footpath being built from Langtree Park to Parr Street near St Helens Central Station instead.

 

[DJH1971]

I cannot see the line ever being reopened with Electrification of Chat Moss & Huyton to Wigan line. The line passes next to St Helens RLFC stadium Langtree Park, & think would be useful another Footpath being built from Langtree Park to Parr Street near St Helens Central Station instead.

It would be nice to have a station near the rugby ground though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 1990 Quail map has a different spelling from both: "St Helens Hayes Chemicals Leathers Divn.": two sidings, and no track on the route south of that point.

Heavens above...Infallability problems on a Quail publication...hock: