St Ives Branch platform lengthening and 5 coach services

[Rob F]

After the work to lengthen the platforms at St Erth and Lelant has there been any movement on 5 coach services to St Ives this summer?

If not, any news on when it is likely to happen?

Rob

 

[30907]

When the 150s in Devon and Cornwall are replaced by 16x, perhaps, which doesn’t seem imminent?

 

[Rob F]

So the lengthening work is looking like a bit of a white elephant?

 

[The exile]

So the lengthening work is looking like a bit of a white elephant?

Hopefully just a premature birth. And let’s not forget it’s wonderfully easy to have 20/20 hindsight.

 

[DelW]

Would it be feasible to acquire an off-lease 153 and couple it between the two 150s? I'm presuming that normally the same pair of 150s stay on the branch all day rather than interworking with other services.

 

[fgwrich]

Would it be feasible to acquire an off-lease 153 and couple it between the two 150s? I'm presuming that normally the same pair of 150s stay on the branch all day rather than interworking with other services.

A ScotRail style Bike / Surfboard unit would be perfect for some of the branches (think St Ives / Newquay / Okehampton). But given the reaction to similar comment posted elsewhere by GW Drivers, good luck with that.

 

[DelW]

A ScotRail style Bike / Surfboard unit would be perfect for some of the branches (think St Ives / Newquay / Okehampton). But given the reaction to similar comment posted elsewhere by GW Drivers, good luck with that.

That was why I'd suggested coupling a 153 between the 150s to allow 5 cars to St Ives, so that the set is always driven from a 150 cab. I know that the 153 cabs can be unpopular with drivers (especially tall ones AIUI).

 

[fgwrich]

That was why I'd suggested coupling a 153 between the 150s to allow 5 cars to St Ives, so that the set is always driven from a 150 cab. I know that the 153 cabs can be unpopular with drivers (especially tall ones AIUI).

I don’t even think you’d need to complicate it as much as that to be honest, surely leaving it at one end (big cab outwards) would be enough?

 

[DelW]

I don’t even think you’d need to complicate it as much as that to be honest, surely leaving it at one end (big cab outwards) would be enough?

I think even the originally-outer cabs are unpopular with some drivers. Plus they'd presumably need traction training unless drivers down there still sign 153s? I've no idea how recently 153s have been used in Cornwall.

 

[cactustwirly]

When the 150s in Devon and Cornwall are replaced by 16x, perhaps, which doesn’t seem imminent?

It's not there aren't enough 16x

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think even the originally-outer cabs are unpopular with some drivers. Plus they'd presumably need traction training unless drivers down there still sign 153s? I've no idea how recently 153s have been used in Cornwall.

They'd still need training on them again- if it's in the formation crews have to be passed out on things like fire extinguishers, fault-finding, etc. Sandwiching a 153 in the middle is all well and good until something goes on one of the outer 150 cabs- a damaged windscreen for example.

 

[DelW]

They'd still need training on them again- if it's in the formation crews have to be passed out on things like fire extinguishers, fault-finding, etc. Sandwiching a 153 in the middle is all well and good until something goes on one of the outer 150 cabs- a damaged windscreen for example.

Switching a damaged cab to the inside needs a shunt with or without the 153, though admittedly the latter makes it a bit more awkward.

It may not be feasible - that was the question I originally asked - but unless some solution is devised, the lengthening isn't going to be of any use for a few years yet, maybe not until the replacement of the Turbos.

 

[Class172]

When the 150s in Devon and Cornwall are replaced by 16x, perhaps, which doesn’t seem imminent?

There's no intention now of replacing all the 150s in Devon and Cornwall with 16xs. There are lines that the turbos can't use such as Gunnislake, plus availability of the units is not the best (nor frankly of a lot of GWR's fleet) and will only get worse with time.

 

[Revilo]

I wish they could hire a Heritage DMU or two, for instance from the West Somerset Railway, run it to Looe or St Ives, advertise it as a tourist attraction/observation car and release some 150s for other lines.

 

[dk1]

I wish they could hire a Heritage DMU or two, for instance from the West Somerset Railway, run it to Looe or St Ives, advertise it as a tourist attraction/observation car and release some 150s for other lines.

Would need central door locking as well as full TPWS. Also can you just imagine the cost of staff training/crew familiarisation and that’s without maintainence requirements? Sadly it’s pretty much impossible nowadays.

 

[fgwrich]

Would need central door locking as well as full TPWS. Also can you just imagine the cost of staff training/crew familiarisation and that’s without maintainence requirements? Sadly it’s pretty much impossible nowadays.

I think the only pres 1st Gen DMUs to now have that are the Swanage DMU Fleet and LSL's 121034. The former Cardiff Bay Bubble appears to have had its equipment removed, I'm not sure of the status of the Chiltern blue one at Bodmin though.

 

[Efini92]

Would need central door locking as well as full TPWS. Also can you just imagine the cost of staff training/crew familiarisation and that’s without maintainence requirements? Sadly it’s pretty much impossible nowadays.

Can you imagine some of the staff learning vacuum brakes?

 

[dk1]

Can you imagine some of the staff learning vacuum brakes?

I’ll do it lol.

I think the only pres 1st Gen DMUs to now have that are the Swanage DMU Fleet and LSL's 121034. The former Cardiff Bay Bubble appears to have had its equipment removed, I'm not sure of the status of the Chiltern blue one at Bodmin though.

Yeah I’m not sure mate.

 

[83G/84D]

A 3 car class 158 & 2 car 150 has been considered but crew knowledge and turn round times at each end preclude this. Some west / HSS train crews don’t sign 158’s. With more entry / exit doors on the 150’s compared to a 158 it’s likely to remain as 2x 150 for the foreseeable future.
Class 165/166 not route cleared west of Plymouth and no plans to do so, I doubt there are enough 150’s to make up a 6 car formation for the St Ives branch.

 

[IanXC]

A 3 car class 158 & 2 car 150 has been considered but crew knowledge and turn round times at each end preclude this. Some west / HSS train crews don’t sign 158’s. With more entry / exit doors on the 150’s compared to a 158 it’s likely to remain as 2x 150 for the foreseeable future.
Class 165/166 not route cleared west of Plymouth and no plans to do so, I doubt there are enough 150’s to make up a 6 car formation for the St Ives branch.

I suppose a handful of hybrid 3 car 150s could be formed to allow for 5 car formations?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A ScotRail style Bike / Surfboard unit would be perfect for some of the branches (think St Ives / Newquay / Okehampton). But given the reaction to similar comment posted elsewhere by GW Drivers, good luck with that.

As a passenger who is used to the St Ives Bay Line being completely full and standing in summer, any additional capacity by way of an extra carriage going to bikes would infuriate me. Just personally.

 

[The exile]

I suppose a handful of hybrid 3 car 150s could be formed to allow for 5 car formations?

Reckon Truro - Falmouth could do with those as well at times. Unfortunately I don’t think any are due to be available soon.

 

[dk1]

Reckon Truro - Falmouth could do with those as well at times. Unfortunately I don’t think any are due to be available soon.

Maybe by the time the Cornish Metro gets off the ground.

 

[AM9]

As a passenger who is used to the St Ives Bay Line being completely full and standing in summer, any additional capacity by way of an extra carriage going to bikes would infuriate me. Just personally.

"Full and standing" is better than full and standing amongst bikes!
It would seem that persuading the public to use public transport including active travel is going to be even more difficult.

 

[bramling]

As a passenger who is used to the St Ives Bay Line being completely full and standing in summer, any additional capacity by way of an extra carriage going to bikes would infuriate me. Just personally.

One way or another surely five carriages is better than four? For Newquay you’d have the same issue but substitute surfboards for bikes!

 

[zwk500]

As a passenger who is used to the St Ives Bay Line being completely full and standing in summer, any additional capacity by way of an extra carriage going to bikes would infuriate me. Just personally.

Rail transport isn't about individual preferences though, it's about overall compromises.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Rail transport isn't about individual preferences though, it's about overall compromises.

What a very patronising thing to say. It is not wise to use up additional capacity on a packed line for bikes. Sure, lots of people travel with luggage on the CrossCountry route. If provisions were made for an additional carriage to be added to 4-220 CrossCountry services and 3/4 of this was seatless with large luggage racks only, you would not be of the same opinion then, I’m sure.

One way or another surely five carriages is better than four?

Yes, but the plan was already to extend services to 5 carriages without any bicycle carriages like ScotRail’s being introduced as far as I’m aware. To scrap this in favour of a cycle carriage doesn’t seem justifiable on a route that needs all the additional capacity it can get. It’s fine on the West Highland line where the 156s aren’t too badly off, and even if it was a very busy line - additional capacity in the form of more passenger carriages were not planned and then cancelled in favour of cycles.

 

[zwk500]

It is not wise to use up additional capacity on a packed line for bikes.

If bikes are a significant part of the traffic, why not?

Sure, lots of people travel with luggage on the CrossCountry route. If provisions were made for an additional carriage to be added to 4-220 CrossCountry services and 3/4 of this was seatless with large luggage racks only, you would not be of the same opinion then, I’m sure.

Luggage takes up different space to bikes though. If an extra carriage was added to Crosscountry stock and this allowed them to put a larger luggage rack in each carriage while still offering an overall increase in capacity, that'd be quite nice. However my point was that a bike space if not being used for bikes can be used by people who are willing to stand or have the tip-up seats, whereas a Luggage rack is much less flexible in being usable for passenger space when not required for luggage.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If bikes are a significant part of the traffic, why not?

Do you know that they are?

If cycles were as much of a priority as passengers on the railway, then many operators like inner SWR would not ban them at peak hours, and the Intercity operations would not force them to book or reserve. More space is great, but at the expense of capacity where it’s badly needed isn’t.

Whichever side of the fence one sits, however, (and I’m willing to agree to disagree ) there remains the point that it’s Pie-in-the-sky anyway, as it were, because didn’t publications refer to hybrid 150s? Nothing mentioned about cycle 153s anyway, in fact GWR have in the last few years rid themselves of 153s.

 

[AM9]

Do you know that they are?

If cycles were as much of a priority as passengers on the railway, then many operators like inner SWR would not ban them at peak hours, and the Intercity operations would not force them to book or reserve. More space is great, but at the expense of capacity where it’s badly needed isn’t.

Your post was referring to the St Ives branch, which takes a whole 12 minutes to travel from one end to the other. SWR routes are not part of this discussion.
So providing anybody who really needs a seat, gets one, - (usually, fit passengers are only too keen to offer an needy person a seat, nobody is going to suffer). However, a 153 removing the cyclists from thepassengers can only be a good thing for all.