St Pancras before HS1

[Ken H]

It was my understanding that the floor the trains ran on was a structural tie between the bottoms of the arches to stop them spreading at the bottom. Then how come they could cut a socking great hole to access the undercroft without the whole lot collapsing?

 

[Enthusiast]

I can recall in my early Gricing days in the 1960s, that during our time spent at Kings Cross, we would sometimes wander over to St. Pancras "to see if anything interesting was happening." It rarely was. I seem to recall the highlight being the arrival of the "Manchester (Midland) Pullman". Other than that, there were only the occasional trains to be seen and the place looked extremely deserted and unloved. We were soon back in Kings Cross where there was much more going on.

It should be remembered that in the early 1960s, BR proposed demolishing the entire place, including the former Midland Grand Hotel. They were still wallowing in their success at demolishing Euston's Doric Arch and "developing" the frontage of the station into glass office blocks. They believed they were on a roll, but of course Mr Betjeman had something to say about that.

 

[WesternLancer]

Peaks were synonymous with St Pan... Living in Derby, after a day in London, it seemed one was almost home on getting back here.

Backing-in

Cl.45/1 45112 backs into one of the platforms at St Pancras, prior to working a northbound service [1979]

www.flickr.com

You just forget those residential houses (well almost certainly flats) so close by there, and behind the loco in the image - tho I think the German Gymnasium is in that image (roof of it in pic I think) which is still there as it is a listed building.

 

[Joe Paxton]

They used the domestic HS1 platforms for a short while. I remember catching an HST from them.

And Thameslink trains heading north also used them for a period whilst the core route was closed to allow for works constructing the box of the new low level platforms for St Pancras Thameslink, though rather absurdly the project didn't extend to actually fitting these out for passenger use - this happened a few years later when the government allocated the money (I recall that was when the late Alistair Darling was SoS for Transport), meaning the overcrowded KX Thameslink platforms could close.

I remember that when MML and Thameslink trains used the domestic HS1 platforms, it was described in passenger-facing information as a "temporary station" - this puzzled me a bit at the time as it was evidently a fairly permanent installation, as indeed it proved to be.

 

[ScottGallagher]

There is a Birds Of A Feather episode from 1992 called Food For Thought where there is a scene filmed at St Pancras, featuring a 319. It will be on uktv play from series 4 I think.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I can recall in my early Gricing days in the 1960s, that during our time spent at Kings Cross, we would sometimes wander over to St. Pancras "to see if anything interesting was happening." It rarely was. I seem to recall the highlight being the arrival of the "Manchester (Midland) Pullman". Other than that, there were only the occasional trains to be seen and the place looked extremely deserted and unloved. We were soon back in Kings Cross where there was much more going on.

The Midland Pullman would have arrived at about (from memory) 11.00 (thoug it depends on exactly when you went - it varied a bit from the early use of the Pullman). IT may have been quietish at the time (more than KX, but it always was), but there were still trains,whether your memory recalls them or not. Certainly more than in 1990 after Thameslink was introduced.

It should be remembered that in the early 1960s, BR proposed demolishing the entire place, including the former Midland Grand Hotel. They were still wallowing in their success at demolishing Euston's Doric Arch and "developing" the frontage of the station into glass office blocks. They believed they were on a roll, but of course Mr Betjeman had something to say about that.

I thnk it was the later 60s, c 1968, when BR LMR realised that the WCML had lots of spare capacity after electrification and were still desperate to cut costs.

I'm not sure if it was actually proposed, I don't think so, it was merely being considered.

The route was called the Midland Main Line before privatisation, wasn’t it? Which is where the Midland Mainline TOC got the name from.

Not as I recall, no. Of course, if someone had used the term, it would be mostly understood, but it was the privatisation name that made it regularly used, as per ever since.

 

[AY1975]

Until the electrification and resignalling works of the early 1980s there were 7 platforms. No.1 platform was shorter than the others and was rarely used for anything other than a DMU on the suburban services to Luton. This platform was on the extreme left side of the station looking out from the buffer stops. It didn't survive the modernisation. There were also two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3, known as A road and B road and another siding between platforms 4 and 5 known as 8 road. Only one of the two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3 survived.

Were the platforms renumbered with the early 1980s electrification, or was there no Platform 1 after that? I was around then, but only just (and have been a regular traveller out of St Pancras all my life, going to our cottage near Alfreton when I lived in London and when travelling to London since moving to Sheffield).

There is a Birds Of A Feather episode from 1992 called Food For Thought where there is a scene filmed at St Pancras, featuring a 319. It will be on uktv play from series 4 I think.

There's also a Mr Bean sketch filmed at St Pancras, probably from about the same era, in which he gets off an HST and then finds that he has lost his ticket when he reaches the barrier so he hides in a mail bag and jumps about inside it (not that ticket barrier checks were normally done at St Pancras for InterCity trains by then: I think it became an "open" station along with most other stations on the Midland Main Line from Wellingborough up to and including Derby and Alfreton in about the mid 1980s, except that pre-Thameslink the platforms used by Bedford EMUs were still barriered, so the ticket barrier was probably brought into use specially to film this sketch):

 

[RichJF]

This video might interest you.
From the wonderful Soi Buakho channel.

Gives you an idea of the 1991 layout of the station.

 

[eastwestdivide]

From my archives, two from May 1983, one in the dark and one with the Post Office Tower (Telecom Tower) in the background:





And one from 1985, with Cl.317 units and a luggage trolley "Not to be removed from Victoria". You can also see parcels trollies on the wide platform beyond the second 317. Somewhere I've a photo of the newspaper train being loaded there late one night, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The one time conveyance of a 'Prisoner and Escort' would appear on the reservations section for a compartment which was always marked as 'HOME OFFICE', but you knew what the real purpose was.

I think I recall a film clip about said subject, possibly in that BTF production 'Terminus', filmed at Waterloo.

luggage trolley "Not to be removed from Victoria"

On a light hearted note, that could be the subject of a separate thread - the furthest travelled luggage trolley noted...

 

[Bald Rick]

They used the domestic HS1 platforms for a short while. I remember catching an HST from them.

And Thameslink trains heading north also used them for a period whilst the core route was closed to allow for works constructing the box of the new low level platforms for St Pancras Thameslink, though rather absurdly the project didn't extend to actually fitting these out for passenger use - this happened a few years later when the government allocated the money (I recall that was when the late Alistair Darling was SoS for Transport), meaning the overcrowded KX Thameslink platforms could close.

I remember that when MML and Thameslink trains used the domestic HS1 platforms, it was described in passenger-facing information as a "temporary station" - this puzzled me a bit at the time as it was evidently a fairly permanent installation, as indeed it proved to be.

During reconstruction the MML services used various platforms as the layout was shifted in 2 or 3 major stages.

When the Thameslink route was closed for construction of the station box and Canal Tunnels (2004), 6 platforms were used; essentially 4 for intercity services and 2 for Thameslink.

Not as I recall, no. Of course, if someone had used the term, it would be mostly understood, but it was the privatisation name that made it regularly used, as per ever since.

It was definitely known as the ‘Midland Main Line’ before privatisation. By me at least!

 

[GS250]

The 'old' St Pancras was actually quite a depressing place from memory (late 70s early 80s). Seem to recall it was rather unkempt and saw a fairly low frequency service in general? Two DMU suburban services per hour, 1 semi fast to Bedford and 1 all shacks to Luton. Expresses to Nottingham and Sheffield every hour too. I guess though this was about in keeping with the period though? The fact the wires were up for seemingly ages but the same old life expired DMU's used to trudge back and forth seemed to sum up the situation.

 

[John Webb]

The 'old' St Pancras was actually quite a depressing place from memory (late 70s early 80s). Seem to recall it was rather unkempt and saw a fairly low frequency service in general? Two DMU suburban services per hour, 1 semi fast to Bedford and 1 all shacks to Luton. Expresses to Nottingham and Sheffield every hour too. I guess though this was about in keeping with the period though? The fact the wires were up for seemingly ages but the same old life expired DMU's used to trudge back and forth seemed to sum up the situation.

I was regularly commuting northwards from St Pancras to Borehamwood from mid-1969 to mid-1977 and sometimes on to Bedford before moving from SE London to St Albans - after that I had a 15min drive from home to work in Borehamwood. I recall that St Pancras was rather gloomy during my commuting years. There were more trains in the rush-hours although as I was going against the flow I had a smaller choice.

The wires of course were up for at least 2 years before the electric locals started running due to the dispute over DOO (Driver Only Operation).

My main regret now of my commuting days is that I never photographed the mechanical signalling before it was swept away in 1979 when West Hampstead PSB came into operation.

 

[Roger1973]

Another screen appearance for St Pancras Station and surrounding area was the video to 'Hobart Paving' by Saint Etienne, 1993.

On Youtube here.

 

[30907]

It was definitely known as the ‘Midland Main Line’ before privatisation. By me at least!

"The Midland route/line" (to X) I think, or even just "The Midland" possibly?
Or am I just reflecting the use of the Railway Mag etc from my childhood - East Coast/West Coast route etc come to mind? Anyway, I don't recall "Main" being used - of course they were main lines

 

[Beebman]

I've got the DVD of the 1963 BBC sitcom 'Marriage Lines' with Richard Briers and Prunella Scales, and the opening scene of Ep.4 'The Parting' was filmed at St.Pancras including a couple of shots of Class 27s.

 

[Helvellyn]

It was Midland Mainline from the late 1980s with sectorisation:

• IMLX was the sector code for InterCity Midland Mainline LHCS/HST trailers
• IMLP was the sector code for InterCity Midland Mainline HST Power Cars
• NMLX was the sector code for Network SouthEast - originally for NSE Midland Mainline, then changed to NSE Thameslink.

 

[Western Sunset]

The Midland Railway called it "The Best Route" in their publicity. Growing up in Derby in the 1950s/60s/70s I never heard it termed the Midland Mainline. There was the WCML and the ECML; that was it. No Great Western Mainline or Brighton Mainline either.

 

[AlbertBeale]

There's also a Mr Bean sketch filmed at St Pancras, probably from about the same era, in which he gets off an HST and then finds that he has lost his ticket when he reaches the barrier so he hides in a mail bag and jumps about inside it (not that ticket barrier checks were normally done at St Pancras for InterCity trains by then: I think it became an "open" station along with most other stations on the Midland Main Line from Wellingborough up to and including Derby and Alfreton in about the mid 1980s, except that pre-Thameslink the platforms used by Bedford EMUs were still barriered, so the ticket barrier was probably brought into use specially to film this sketch):

I'm trying to work out the Russian after "MOSCOW" - my knowledge of the language is minimal, but it doesn't seem very obvious what it might mean...

There was still a number of Parcels/Newspaper services running at the time. (The Nottingham News had also been diverted to run from Euston for several years, but had returned to St. Pancras by now). The trains were still busy conveying Mail, and the roadway between 5 & 6 was normally continually busy with Post Office vans hopping in and out to deliver outgoing mail or taking away incoming stuff, with long lines of snaking BRUTE trollies clattering across the concourse heading to other platforms, or in the direction of the Parcels Office next to platform 1.
Platform 1 was only a short platform which would hold an eight car 127 DMU. During the day it was used mostly for loading/unloading Mails and Parcels, but at Peak times the platform would be cleared out for Rush Hour DMUs.
All the 'Inter-City' traffic was loco hauled, so there was also a continual flow of Locos in and out.

Yes - I used the mail trains at St P for last-minute packages frequently in the '70s and '80s - it was generally very busy during the evening. (I also travelled to and from Nottingham up to twice a month for much of these decades too. The trains were rarely crowded at the times I used them.)

 

[eastwestdivide]

I'm trying to work out the Russian after "MOSCOW" - my knowledge of the language is minimal, but it doesn't seem very obvious what it might mean

When I retyped it into a search engine, the first result was this from wikipedia calling it “mock-cyrillic writing”:

Hair by Mr. Bean of London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And then other results in Russian which translate back to saying it’s nonsense. Expect someone in the props department just grabbed some letters!
Edited to add: Nice to discover the transliteration of Mr Bean to Мистер Бин.

 

[Strathclyder]

This is likely about as close as you can get at St. Pancras prior to HS1: Thursday 8th April 2004 (the Barlow trainshed had been closed by the following Monday). YouTube's traindriver35 was on hand to record a Class 45-hauled railtour bound for Derby departing the station (the last time a Peak has visited St. Pancras as far as I know), plus a couple of the then-normal MML HST arrivals and departures. The new domestic trainshed can be seen in a couple shots, plus a cameo by a Midland Mainline 170 (these had long since been ousted from the MML fleet by the time the station was fully reopened). Certainly an air of faded grandeur about the place:

 

[DerekC]

I have a quite vivid memory of St Pancras in the late '50s. It gave an impression of uncared for grandeur - the hugely impressive roof and hotel, but all rather dark and dirty. Lots of Black Fives, I think, with maybe a Crab and a Jubilee? I am afraid my recording of numbers didn't stretch to where and when spotted. It was busy, certainly, and I particularly remember being surprised at finding a train of through-gangway stock (most suburban services weren't in those days) heading for Tilbury. I think it even had destination boards on the side. IIRC a Fowler 2-6-4T at the head. At the age of 10 or so I hadn't read about the Midland acquisition of the LT&S.

 

[AlbertBeale]

When I retyped it into a search engine, the first result was this from wikipedia calling it “mock-cyrillic writing”:

Hair by Mr. Bean of London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And then other results in Russian which translate back to saying it’s nonsense. Expect someone in the props department just grabbed some letters!
Edited to add: Nice to discover the transliteration of Mr Bean to Мистер Бин.

Well, it's not mock Cycillic - it is genuine Russian Cyrillic [there are slightly different varieties of the alphabet used for different Slavic languages]; but, as you say, НПУЛЦА (NPULTSA) doesn't mean anything. The reason I asked was in case someone here knew of some Russian railway abbreviations or Russian routing abbreviations which could be relevant... (And of course it's unlikely that such a train would fail to have "Москва" on it as well as "Moscow".)

 

[Mike Machin]

On a light hearted note, that could be the subject of a separate thread - the furthest travelled luggage trolley noted.

Quick off-topic reply, 'Not to be removed from Liverpool Street' which I saw in Gothenburg station, Sweden one evening in July 1984!

Quote Reply

 

[GS250]

On a light hearted note, that could be the subject of a separate thread - the furthest travelled luggage trolley noted.

Quick off-topic reply, 'Not to be removed from Liverpool Street' which I saw in Gothenburg station, Sweden one evening in July 1984!

Quote Reply

Yes definitely scope for a separate thread!

One can only wonder how it got there too. I'd say almost certainly it went via Harwich!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On a light hearted note, that could be the subject of a separate thread - the furthest travelled luggage trolley noted.

Quick off-topic reply, 'Not to be removed from Liverpool Street' which I saw in Gothenburg station, Sweden one evening in July 1984!

Quote Reply

One from King's Cross once famously turned up at Kai Tak airport...

 

[WesternLancer]

This is likely about as close as you can get at St. Pancras prior to HS1: Thursday 8th April 2004 (the Barlow trainshed had been closed by the following Monday). YouTube's traindriver35 was on hand to record a Class 45-hauled railtour bound for Derby departing the station (the last time a Peak has visited St. Pancras as far as I know), plus a couple of the then-normal MML HST arrivals and departures. The new domestic trainshed can be seen in a couple shots, plus a cameo by a Midland Mainline 170 (these had long since been ousted from the MML fleet by the time the station was fully reopened). Certainly an air of faded grandeur about the place:

Indeed v close to the switch over! I think I went to Leicester station to see that Peak hauled special come through that day, so nice to see the film of the departure.

 

[Jimbob52]

I occasionally used St Pancras station in the late 1960s, travelling from Nottingham. My main memory is the overwhelming stench of diesel fumes. I also remember the poor loudspeaker system that made it hard to understand announcements. I think there was a notice apologising for the poor sound quality, explaining that BR had intended to close the station so the system had not been renewed.

I moved to London in 1968, and clearly recall meeting my fiancée off the Nottingham train one Saturday morning and having no problem parking my car in the forecourt of the station. I think there was no charge.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The opening titles for Porridge give a good idea what it was like back in the day. Porridge was first broadcast in 1974, so that must have been filmed at St Pancras in the early 70s.

Although one of the subsequent scenes in the pilot episode "Prisoner & Escort" make it clear they are on the West Coast Main Line

FLETCHER "I wouldn't cross you Mr Mackay - otherwise you'd throw me off the train as we pass through Hemel Hempstead and writeb it down as "attempted escape" "
BARROWCLOUGH: "He wouldn't do that"
FLETCHER "No, s'pose not - he couldn't spell Hemel Hempstead, he'd wait 'til we got to Rugby:"

The wires of course were up for at least 2 years before the electric locals started running due to the dispute over DOO (Driver Only Operation).

And 40 years on, on SWR......Plus ca change - plus c'est la meme chose.

 

[PeterC]

I never had much occasion to use the old St Pancras but it did have the advantage of the gents being free. On the couple of instances when I went in to use the facilities it felt very much like a grander version of Broad Street