St Pancras International - Poor Signage

[Andrewlong]

Language develops. It would be dreadful if we ended up like the French.

Signing tends to be used to indicate services for deaf people.

Happy with the word signage as I can't think of the word it is replacing - signing doesn't come to mind. I don't like American phrases like pay cheque which young people use when monthly salary is perfectly understandable.

Back on subject - the station which does my head in is London Bridge when you enter from Tooley Street - no big departure board just some small screens. Confusing for the infrequent traveller!

 

[AM9]

Happy with the word signage as I can't think of the word it is replacing - signing doesn't come to mind. I don't like American phrases like pay cheque which young people use when monthly salary is perfectly understandable.

Shouldn't it be 'pay check'?

 

[Mikey C]

Stratford International is not Stratford
International only has four platforms and only two are in use.

Stratford International isn't international either
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I always view St Pancras as 4 separate stations connected by a concourse.

That's a good description, I can imagine somebody using the domestic services for the first time being slightly confused, they certainly feel like poor relations to the Eurostar services

 

[jon0844]

There are loads of things about the station to confuse first time visitors, or even fairly infrequent visitors. Even two ticket offices for national rail tickets is bound to confuse.

It's a beautiful station and has lots of nice shops, bars, restaurants and a fantastic hotel - but there are many flaws. Arguably many of those flaws exist because there's no other way to do things.

 

[Clip]

There are loads of things about the station to confuse first time visitors, or even fairly infrequent visitors. Even two ticket offices for national rail tickets is bound to confuse.

It's a beautiful station and has lots of nice shops, bars, restaurants and a fantastic hotel - but there are many flaws. Arguably many of those flaws exist because there's no other way to do things.

Quite. They should have better signs/signage/signing/pointers for each seperate TOC and their location but again if you are in the main market area you cannot fail to see the big bad displays which are perfectly clear in what train is leaving from which platform.

 

[jon0844]

I'd elect for the same types of screen as used by most (if not all) Network Rail stations. Just look at King's Cross as an example.

But I'd opt for multi-coloured LEDs. Maybe go for a higher-definition matrix of LEDs if you want to be able to include logos, or more detail for carriage layouts (such as how Virgin is now showing extra detail at Euston).

I can see why you'd keep Eurostar separate, but I am not entirely convinced why you'd separate the rest by TOC.

You could potentially have the displays showing the direction to the platform via a simple arrow (down/right for TL, up/left for SET, up/right for EMT maybe). Or colour code by TOC, but still show in time order.

Then you have signs keeping to that colour to show where the platforms are.

I really hope that the low-level platforms will also have much more information for later trains, given people may now need to wait a few trains before the one they want arrives. That will mean stopping patterns showing for the next nn trains, and more detail on the next services to take if wanting to travel to xxxx.

 

[Steveman]

Who would call signs signing,? signage is the correct and better term.

 

[jon0844]

There's also eInk as a possible future solution. Much greater resolution, and as clear as paper so readable in all conditions.

Nice to see today they may appear on London buses.

https://twitter.com/JamesSirmon/status/710200245007884288?s=09

 

[edwin_m]

Not directly from Euston Road, no. Unless you count going via the hotel forecourt.
There is a staircase almost on the corner of Pancras Road and Euston Road, but the main entrances are further up Pancras Road (one direct into Eurostar departures and one into the 'glass box').
But from what I remember as a kid, you never could enter directly from Euston Road, except via the aforementioned forecourt.

You used to be able to enter legitimately by the western big arch, which is now part of the hotel forecourt. Now if you go that way, unless you cut through the hotel, it's a case of carrying on to the eastern big arch and retracing your steps inside.

From Euston Road to the west or Judd Street to the south, the quickest way to any of the main line platforms is up Midland Road (west of the station) to the entrance half way along the old part of the building. It appears to have been put there to serve the taxi rank but it brings you onto the main arcade opposite the Eurostar check-in and near the up escalator for East Midlands Trains. Southestern is a bit further away (and the only one where you pass the main set of departure indicators!) but no further by this route than by any other.

 

[Mikey C]

You used to be able to enter legitimately by the western big arch, which is now part of the hotel forecourt. Now if you go that way, unless you cut through the hotel, it's a case of carrying on to the eastern big arch and retracing your steps inside.

From Euston Road to the west or Judd Street to the south, the quickest way to any of the main line platforms is up Midland Road (west of the station) to the entrance half way along the old part of the building. It appears to have been put there to serve the taxi rank but it brings you onto the main arcade opposite the Eurostar check-in and near the up escalator for East Midlands Trains. Southestern is a bit further away (and the only one where you pass the main set of departure indicators!) but no further by this route than by any other.

For Southeastern wouldn't you just walk up Pancras Road instead, especially as with the Kings Cross redevelopment, the whole area between the two stations is nicely landscaped and busy now

 

[edwin_m]

For Southeastern wouldn't you just walk up Pancras Road instead, especially as with the Kings Cross redevelopment, the whole area between the two stations is nicely landscaped and busy now

Possibly, but you'd have to fight your way though the taxidemonium outside the Eurostar exit or the similar one across the road at KX. If you're coming from the directions I suggested it's also a bit further and involves walking along the horrible Euston Road.

 

[EM2]

Possibly, but you'd have to fight your way though the taxidemonium outside the Eurostar exit or the similar one across the road at KX. If you're coming from the directions I suggested it's also a bit further and involves walking along the horrible Euston Road.

Unless, as the OP did, you cut through the Underground and come into the south end of the Arcade. You stay dry and avoid the traffic!

 

[philjo]

There are loads of things about the station to confuse first time visitors, or even fairly infrequent visitors. Even two ticket offices for national rail tickets is bound to confuse.

I heard a couple behind me outside the EMT ticket office recently having a mini argument as one of them was adamant that they were in the wrong place as it was the National Rail tickets office - I think they were travelling to a EMT destination.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd elect for the same types of screen as used by most (if not all) Network Rail stations. Just look at King's Cross as an example.

But I'd opt for multi-coloured LEDs. Maybe go for a higher-definition matrix of LEDs if you want to be able to include logos, or more detail for carriage layouts (such as how Virgin is now showing extra detail at Euston).

I can see why you'd keep Eurostar separate, but I am not entirely convinced why you'd separate the rest by TOC.

You could potentially have the displays showing the direction to the platform via a simple arrow (down/right for TL, up/left for SET, up/right for EMT maybe). Or colour code by TOC, but still show in time order.

Then you have signs keeping to that colour to show where the platforms are.

I really hope that the low-level platforms will also have much more information for later trains, given people may now need to wait a few trains before the one they want arrives. That will mean stopping patterns showing for the next nn trains, and more detail on the next services to take if wanting to travel to xxxx.

Hopefully they will also include the GN departures from Kings Cross on the board at STP - as once Thameslink runs through, the next train to say Stevenage or Cambridge could be from either platform B at STP low level or KGX platforms 0-11. This is of particular importance if there is disruption and GN services are diverted in to Kings cross instead of Thameslink core.

 

[Mikey C]

Why are there 2 ticket offices at St Pancras Domestic anyway? It's not as if there's great rivalry between the MML and SE HS1 routes.

 

[EM2]

The smaller office is a GTR one, not SE. The larger ticket office generally deals with SE tickets. As to why, no-one has managed to satisfactorily explain this!
I've had customers complain that they were only going a short distance and so didn't want National Rail. When I explained that it's National as opposed to International, they said 'But I want Regional, not National.' :roll:

 

[Mikey C]

The smaller office is a GTR one, not SE. The larger ticket office generally deals with SE tickets. As to why, no-one has managed to satisfactorily explain this!
I've had customers complain that they were only going a short distance and so didn't want National Rail. When I explained that it's National as opposed to International, they said 'But I want Regional, not National.' :roll:

http://stpancras.com/media/52640/stpancras_map_20151019.pdf

The station map just shows it as one ticket office anyway!

 

[exile]

A very large building project here in Preston has boards around it showing mock-ups of the area as it will eventually look. The computer generated shop fronts are labelled "SIGNAGE"

Many linguistic battles are still in full flow (hello train vs railway station). I think your fight to keep signing over signage is long since lost.

"Signage" dates from 1972 so is hardly new - and has nothing to do with computers - and "signing" has many meanings but doesn't have the same meaning as "signage". "Signs" might be a better alternative if one doesn't want to use "signage".