Staff at Heathrow Rail insisted I sit down last night

[matt_world2004]

There are certainly certain areas around the perimeter where plane spotters will be asked to move on from.

Whenever there is a strike at the airport the picket line is always a small corner of Hatton Cross Station. You see them there and looking on there are airport staff making sure they don't cross into the bylaw area which always seemed rather sinister

 

[T-Karmel]

Heathrow is very specific. It's the biggest airport in Europe, it's a hot spot, it has train stations and train services which are strictly airport trains and all passengers travelling on those trains are intending to fly or just flew in from somewhere. They have luggages, flight itineraries to think about, passports in their pockets. There's also much higher staff levels than anywhere else on the railway, and they keep an eye on all station areas at all times. Staff who is very safety orientated and thoroughly trained regarding sacurity and are regularly reminded about its importance and often assessed on it.

All passengers travelling through there behave in a very specific, the same to all of them, manner, and staff is very vigilant to anything what is out of ordinary to airport passengers.

Staff is trained to focus on safety and customer service and to be pro active. If you do not follow all other passengers to Departures, or you don't board the next train, you'll immediately get asked by someone if you need any help and they will keep an eye on you.

At least that's how it was when I worked there and I cannot imagine that much has changed in that matter.

It's a shame that I can't share examples of out of ordinary incidents that I've witnessed, or even acted upon over there that has lead to stop someone who was later considered to be a threat to safety.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Heathrow Express's Conditions of Carriage state...

9.8 Refusal of access Any person whom we believe likely to act in a riotous, disorderly or offensive manner may be refused access to, or may be required to leave, our trains and the stations and platforms which Heathrow Express operates from.

What is deemed to be "disorderly" or "offensive" perhaps being a moot point.

Link below...

https://ctphexcmsprod.blob.core.windows.net/cms/docs/default-source/policies/download-heathrow-express-conditions-of-carriage-for-tickets-purchased-on-or-after-06-september-2020).pdf

It's not the power to ask you to leave if being disorderly or offensive which is worst (though they're bad enough - offensiveness is subjective; no-one has the right not to be offended), it's the reference to a person "whom we believe likely to act..." I can't imagine any non-prejudiced grounds for thinking someone "might behave" in a given way, unless and until they actually do. Sounds like if the train officials don't like the look of you, they might think you might be disorderly etc and therefore eject you. What sort of justice is that? I find that seriously troubling.

Heathrow is very specific. It's the biggest airport in Europe, it's a hot spot, it has train stations and train services which are strictly airport trains and all passengers travelling on those trains are intending to fly or just flew in from somewhere.

That's absolute nonsense - there are many reason to travel to and from an airport other than because you're going on (or have just been on) a plane journey. I went to airports for non-onward-travel-by-plane reasons many times before I ever got on a plane, and have done so on various occasions since as well.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

travelling through there behave in a very specific, the same to all of them, manner, and staff is very vigilant to anything what is out of ordinary to airport passengers.

That's absolute nonsense - there are many reason to travel to and from an airport other than because you're going on (or have just been on) a plane journey. I went to airports for non-onward-travel-by-plane reasons many times before I ever got on a plane, and have done so on various occasions since as well.

I think this is unnecessarily robust. Growing up in Slough, just down the road, it's true that most of my visits to Heathrow have not involved flying - most of them have one way or another been to work there. But only the very few times when I have gone to Heathrow to hire a car have not relied on it being an airport (and even then, the only reason for Hertz having a site open for long hours is because of the airport).

@T-Karmel may not be literally right to say that everyone on the train at the airport is an air passenger. But they are practically right in that the overwhelming majority of people on the train will have business that means they won't get off the train and stay on the platform rather than moving on elsewhere in the airport.

 

[TheEdge]

That's absolute nonsense - there are many reason to travel to and from an airport other than because you're going on (or have just been on) a plane journey. I went to airports for non-onward-travel-by-plane reasons many times before I ever got on a plane, and have done so on various occasions since as well.

Planespotting, meeting someone off a plane, working at the airport? Can't think of many others. Then remember that the Heathrow stations are at the end of a spur on the way to nowhere else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Planespotting, meeting someone off a plane, working at the airport? Can't think of many others. Then remember that the Heathrow stations are at the end of a spur on the way to nowhere else.

Potentially connecting somewhere else by bus - LHR is a bit of a bus hub, and if you're on a Travelcard TfL Rail doesn't cost extra.

But all of those things involve not hanging around on the station.

 

[T-Karmel]

Writing already a long message in the middle of the night I thought it'll be unnecessary to explain every single type of passenger travelling through Heathrow Rail stations whilst absolute majority of them is going to fly from there, and there'll be a percentage of airport workers or going there for other reasons, when that's still irrelevant to what my message was concluding - that it's not a reason to hang around Heathrow Rail platforms and all of them are acting in a very particular order.

Still, no one goes there for shopping, collect a parcel from post office, pick up child from school, going to gym or swimming pool, to the beach, because they're bored or to buy some crack.

 

[AlterEgo]

All dancing on the head of a pin about nothing really. Heathrow is private property, they can tell you to sling your hook if they want to. You can expect that with it being Britain's biggest airport, they can be a bit tetchy about people acting strangely.

In the event, the OP was merely told to sit down and asked where he was going because it looked like he was acting in an unusual way. That's it. Everything else is academic.

 

[Kilopylae]

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong. I resent the idea that, in the name of safety, it's fine to treat someone acting unusually as inherently suspicious or a potential criminal.

If staff feel uncomfortable watching someone pace on a station platform, that's really their cross to bear. There is no incumbency on the passenger to provide an 'excuse' or reason for their perfectly lawful, non-dangerous behaviour simply because "it's unusual and it's an airport".

 

[Starmill]

Did you contact TfL Rail to point out the problem with the train having left early? How many minutes early was it?

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong.

Maybe but they're plainly entitled to intervene to ask what's going on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong. I resent the idea that, in the name of safety, it's fine to treat someone acting unusually as inherently suspicious or a potential criminal.

If staff feel uncomfortable watching someone pace on a station platform, that's really their cross to bear. There is no incumbency on the passenger to provide an 'excuse' or reason for their perfectly lawful, non-dangerous behaviour simply because "it's unusual and it's an airport".

That is exactly how things are in airports due to the extraordinary risks posed.

 

[Ianno87]

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong. I resent the idea that, in the name of safety, it's fine to treat someone acting unusually as inherently suspicious or a potential criminal.

If staff feel uncomfortable watching someone pace on a station platform, that's really their cross to bear. There is no incumbency on the passenger to provide an 'excuse' or reason for their perfectly lawful, non-dangerous behaviour simply because "it's unusual and it's an airport".

If you are genuinely not doing anything wrong, then you should not feel uncomfortable explaining yourself if you are behaving unusually in somewhere as critical as an airport.

Like it or not, Heathrow is a major intentional airport and a target for potential wrong-doing (either terrorists or eco-warriors seeking to disrupt the airport), and it is only right that the staff are perhaps over-vigilant.

Being laxadaisical on security and threat is basically how 9/11 was allowed to happen.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you are genuinely not doing anything wrong, then you should not feel uncomfortable explaining yourself if you are behaving unusually in somewhere as critical as an airport.

Like it or not, Heathrow is a major intentional airport and a target for potential wrong-doing (either terrorists or eco-warriors seeking to disrupt the airport), and it is only right that the staff are perhaps over-vigilant.

Being laxadaisical on security and threat is basically how 9/11 was allowed to happen.

Quite.

I film in airports - almost every time without permission - for a living. Can’t recall ever having had a real problem. Was asked once at Newcastle what I was doing by the police, just said I was taking pictures and video of the apron and shops etc, no bother at all.

I tend to think it’s right that staff and police feel empowered to ask people what they’re doing.

 

[MikeWh]

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong. I resent the idea that, in the name of safety, it's fine to treat someone acting unusually as inherently suspicious or a potential criminal.

If staff feel uncomfortable watching someone pace on a station platform, that's really their cross to bear. There is no incumbency on the passenger to provide an 'excuse' or reason for their perfectly lawful, non-dangerous behaviour simply because "it's unusual and it's an airport".

I find this attitude slightly worrying. Would you be happy if the person (not the OP I stress) that was left to act suspisciously went on to detonate a bomb which seriously damaged the station and terminal building and potentially killed a number of innocent people?

Remember that one of the serious criticisms of the Manchester Arena bombing was that security services ignored reports that the bomber was acting suspisciously.

 

[nanstallon]

Heathrow is very specific. It's the biggest airport in Europe, it's a hot spot, it has train stations and train services which are strictly airport trains and all passengers travelling on those trains are intending to fly or just flew in from somewhere. They have luggages, flight itineraries to think about, passports in their pockets. There's also much higher staff levels than anywhere else on the railway, and they keep an eye on all station areas at all times. Staff who is very safety orientated and thoroughly trained regarding sacurity and are regularly reminded about its importance and often assessed on it.

All passengers travelling through there behave in a very specific, the same to all of them, manner, and staff is very vigilant to anything what is out of ordinary to airport passengers.

Staff is trained to focus on safety and customer service and to be pro active. If you do not follow all other passengers to Departures, or you don't board the next train, you'll immediately get asked by someone if you need any help and they will keep an eye on you.

At least that's how it was when I worked there and I cannot imagine that much has changed in that matter.

It's a shame that I can't share examples of out of ordinary incidents that I've witnessed, or even acted upon over there that has lead to stop someone who was later considered to be a threat to safety.

This sounds a bit like Blackpool North (aka Pyongyang-on-Sea)! I just walked to the back of the train to take a photo, and before I could raise the viewfinder to my eye was approached by staff wanting to know what I was doing.

 

[XAM2175]

This sounds a bit like Blackpool North (aka Pyongyang-on-Sea)! I just walked to the back of the train to take a photo, and before I could raise the viewfinder to my eye was approached by staff wanting to know what I was doing.

It's somewhat better justified at Heathrow, at least.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This sounds a bit like Blackpool North (aka Pyongyang-on-Sea)! I just walked to the back of the train to take a photo, and before I could raise the viewfinder to my eye was approached by staff wanting to know what I was doing.

Blackpool North is however somewhat of a backwater as far as railway stations go and is not a prominent terrorist target. On the other hand, Heathrow is a high risk target.

 

[Horizon22]

The fact that it's an airport doesn't make it staff's business what your intentions are when you're doing nothing wrong. I resent the idea that, in the name of safety, it's fine to treat someone acting unusually as inherently suspicious or a potential criminal.

This isn't solely an airport thing - plenty of railway staff will approach someone who is acting somewhat out of the ordinary and may ask them to sit down, or take a seat perhaps to calm that down. As well as security, it might be something like suicide prevention. Always better to err on the side of caution. Quite simply until you ask someone you can only presume what their intentions are.

 

[Titfield]

This isn't solely an airport thing - plenty of railway staff will approach someone who is acting somewhat out of the ordinary and may ask them to sit down, or take a seat perhaps to calm that down. As well as security, it might be something like suicide prevention. Always better to err on the side of caution. Quite simply until you ask someone you can only presume what their intentions are.

Absolutely and well said. The preservation of life and the prevention of harm (ie safety considerations) must be the highest priority.

Suicide is the single biggest killer of men under 45 in the uk. If asking someone how they are, or asking them to sit down offends some peoples sense of personal privacy then this is indeed a very sad world.

 

[Western Sunset]

I was once approached by some large guys from the Central Electricity Generating Board (CEGB) in a big 4 x 4 and asked to stop what I was doing. I was on public land by the side of the road outside Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station, taking a few innocuous photos. I decided not to argue the point...

But if you put it into context, it was a year before the miner's strike and the GEGB were stealthily building up their coal stocks...

 

[contrex]

I arrived at Waterloo International by Eurostar in 1997 and when everyone had got off I wandered up and down the carriage looking for discarded magazines to read on the next part of my journey home to Bristol. A burly security guard came on board and asked me what I was doing. I told him and he asked me to leave the train at once, and said "Will these do?" and handed me the latest issue of Autocar and a couple of French magazines he had nabbed.

 

[Ianno87]

Absolutely and well said. The preservation of life and the prevention of harm (ie safety considerations) must be the highest priority.

Suicide is the single biggest killer of men under 45 in the uk. If asking someone how they are, or asking them to sit down offends some peoples sense of personal privacy then this is indeed a very sad world.

Yep. Numerous stories of would-have-been railway suicides prevented by staff or passengers noticing somebody alone behaving or pacing up and down oddly, and people saved to get the support they really need.

 

[matt_world2004]

Absolutely and well said. The preservation of life and the prevention of harm (ie safety considerations) must be the highest priority.

Suicide is the single biggest killer of men under 45 in the uk. If asking someone how they are, or asking them to sit down offends some peoples sense of personal privacy then this is indeed a very sad world.

They didnt ask jow I was they intimidated me into sitting down. If they asked how I was I would have said angry my train left early and I was walking it off.

 

[Ianno87]

They didnt ask jow I was they intimidated me into sitting down. If they asked how I was I would have said angry my train left early and I was walking it off.

Is it worth getting that angry about? It's happened (And probably your misjudgment rather than anybody else's relying on a tight connection).

 

[matt_world2004]

Is it worth getting that angry about? It's happened (And probably your misjudgment rather than anybody else's relying on a tight connection).

It left at 8:41 it was scheduled to leave Central at 8:43 that is the operators misjudgement

I left Heathrow picadilly line at 8:37 the train was leaving the platform at 8:41 as my lift came down

 

[Horizon22]

It left at 8:41 it was scheduled to leave Central at 8:43 that is the operators misjudgement

I left Heathrow picadilly line at 8:37 the train was leaving the platform at 8:41 as my lift came down

This one?: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C41912/2021-09-30/detailed

I would say that TfL Rail have a bit of a habit of doing this, but it doesn't look drastically early (30 secs - although depends where the berth is).

 

[matt_world2004]

This one?: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C41912/2021-09-30/detailed

I would say that TfL Rail have a bit of a habit of doing this, but it doesn't look drastically early (30 secs - although depends where the berth is).

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C41912/2021-09-29/detailed this one the clock ticked over from 2041 to 2042 as I got out the lift and it was already pulling away

 

[Horizon22]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C41912/2021-09-29/detailed this one the clock ticked over from 2041 to 2042 as I got out the lift and it was already pulling away

Ah okay - exactly the same departure times on both days.

 

[Titfield]

My Dad said to me "son there are two things you shouldnt chase after - Women and Trains.

 

[Wolfie]

I arrived at Waterloo International by Eurostar in 1997 and when everyone had got off I wandered up and down the carriage looking for discarded magazines to read on the next part of my journey home to Bristol. A burly security guard came on board and asked me what I was doing. I told him and he asked me to leave the train at once, and said "Will these do?" and handed me the latest issue of Autocar and a couple of French magazines he had nabbed.

Good situation management.