Staff member stabbed seven times at Bromley South

[jon0844]

I respect those who become specials for helping their community, but at the same time - we shouldn't allow the authorities to make us rely on them to make up numbers. I am not sure that they do, but they certainly advertise enough for them (perhaps that's just because most people aren't volunteering).

The hours volunteered are pretty low and it probably isn't right that people who put themselves in danger are not paid beyond expenses (and the odd freebie that an officer can enjoy, officially or not).

BTP needs to be fully staffed and not need to worry about the distance to where arrested people are booked in, or the fact a local office has closed to save money, and now you're a good 30-40 minutes away by car (travelling by train is not always an option, especially late at night).

Just as many miscreants have worked out what powers people have (or not), I am sure they've also figured out that BTP rarely gets involved in ticketing disputes (beyond forcing someone to give an address) and so in terms of travelling for free on the railway, no doubt causing grief onboard the trains and being able to more safely move drugs than being stopped in a vehicle, there's little to no risk of encountering BTP day-to-day.

 

[alf]

Most of jon0844 ‘s post is a strong argument for abolishing the BTP & switching their mega million pound budget to resourcing the proper police to look after their local railway.

By the way Specials & Magistrates get lots of extra time off from the railway on full pay for their training & court sittings. The railway industry treats us well.

 

[jon0844]

But it has been clearly detailed by others that BTP has specialist knowledge/safety critical qualifications, and I doubt it is realistic to train the other forces to this standard (you'd surely need to do everyone, or almost everyone, the same which would be time consuming and costly).

As such, I think BTP needs to remain.

Now local police can and do attend railway incidents and perhaps the future is making the best use of resources so BTP focus on the aspects that require BTP knowledge, and local police can turn up to deal with things like fare evasion/push throughs/anti-social behaviour. Then they can arrest as required and book people in to local stations to be dealt with.

 

[FFB6C1]

Do customer-facing staff (at any TOC) undertake any conflict resolution training? Could this be enhanced? Surely, such training should be mandatory. Individual staff members need to know how to protect themselves and can't just solely rely on their employer; however, SE should do whatever is reasonably practical to foster a safe working environment for its staff.

Yes. My TOC has a conflict avoidance module available on the e-learning portal. All new guards are made to go through it and a few others when joining the business. I know there was a recent push for all our frontline staff to log on and go through it. Conductors are being encouraged to sign up to use the body cameras that have been rolled out across all depots also.

 

[Taunton]

Guilty verdict at Croydon Crown Court

MSN

Sentencing to follow in 2023.

 

[Jimini]

Just adding the article text for completeness:

Damilola Fatuga, now aged 19, launched the attack in May 2021 at Bromley South station

A man has been found guilty of stabbing a railway worker and attacking other employees at Bromley South station.
Damilola Fatuga, now aged 19, was challenged by a revenue protection officer after passing through the ticket barriers without paying at around 12.45pm on May 21, 2021.
He lashed out, punching the member of staff several times and knocking his front tooth out.

Two other members of staff came to assist, one was punched in the eye and the second was stabbed multiple times as they tried to restrain him.
The stabbing victim suffered wounds to the arm, thigh and stomach.
His wounds were not life threatening.



The knife was kicked out of Fatuga’s hand by a fourth member of staff.


He was arrested at the scene.
On Tuesday, November 15, 2022, he was found guilty of Grievous Bodily Harm with Intent at Croydon Crown Court in relation to the stabbing.
He had already pleaded guilty to the assaults on the other members of staff and for being in possession of a knife.
Fatuga, of Osborn Terrace in Blackheath, will be sentenced on Friday, February 10, 2023.
Superintendent Darren Malpas, of British Transport Police, said: “This was a shocking and disturbing attack on members of staff who were attempting to do their job.
"It’s very fortunate that the stabbing victim did not suffer life threatening injuries, however it could’ve easily gone the other way.
“We know this attack had a significant impact on our colleagues in the rail industry. Like the rest of us, they have every right to work without fear of suffering violence.
"We’re committed to ensuring anyone who breaches this right are investigated and put before the courts.”

 

[Wolfie]

Just adding the article text for completeness:

Hopefully he rots inside for a very long time.

 

[43066]

Dreadful. I have no doubt the sentence handed down will be a joke, so not raising my hopes on that front.

As someone who knows the locale extremely well, Bromley South these days is sadly exactly the kind of place where you’d expect this sort of thing to happen.

 

[Wolfie]

Dreadful. I have no doubt the sentence handed down will be a joke, so not raising my hopes on that front.

As someone who knows the locale extremely well, Bromley South is sadly exactly the kind of station where you’d expect this kind of thing to happen.

Hope that you are wrong. Fear that you are not.

 

[Horizon22]

Dreadful. I have no doubt the sentence handed down will be a joke, so not raising my hopes on that front.

As someone who knows the locale extremely well, Bromley South these days is sadly exactly the kind of place where you’d expect this sort of thing to happen.

Which is indeed odd as Bromley is generally not an awful place. Certainly nothing like Croydon. But the station does seem to attract the most undesirable people, maybe because it's a hub yet you would expect this sort of behaviour at other Southeastern stations.

 

[43066]

Which is indeed odd as Bromley is generally not an awful place. Certainly nothing like Croydon. But the station does seem to attract the most undesirable people, maybe because it's a hub yet you would expect this sort of behaviour at other Southeastern stations.

I find the area around Bromley South worse than East Croydon (which I passed through earlier this evening, ironically!) West Croydon is a different matter.

For BMS, I think it’s a combination of a busy station with narrow platforms and a woefully inadequate footbridge leading to the exit, regular trains from some of the nastier parts of Kent and SE London, also the area immediately around the station is an armpit with a couple of roughish pubs.

Bromley North is far nicer, with a far nicer pub near by, but much less well connected.

 

[Ediswan]

Dreadful. I have no doubt the sentence handed down will be a joke, so not raising my hopes on that front.

Here are the sentencing guidelines:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...bodily-harm-wounding-with-intent-to-do-gbh-2/
I have decided not to provide a quote as the document is likely intended to be read as a whole.

 

[greyman42]

Hopefully he rots inside for a very long time.

In mitigation he will probably claim he had mental health issues.

 

[RPI]

Probably say how tough his up bringing was blah blah and get a discharge or something

 

[ComUtoR]

In mitigation he will probably claim he had mental health issues.

Many people have mental health issues. Mental health is still being fully understood and still not really accepted in today's society where comments like this very much causes more harm than good. This highlights a fundamental lack of education and understanding around mental health.

Probably say how tough his up bringing was blah blah and get a discharge or something

Again, another lack of understanding. The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

The true measure of society and all that....

 

[InkyScrolls]

Many people have mental health issues. Mental health is still being fully understood and still not really accepted in today's society where comments like this very much causes more harm than good. This highlights a fundamental lack of education and understanding around mental health.



Again, another lack of understanding. The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

The true measure of society and all that....

And this somehow excuses stabbing people? What world are you in?

 

[Need2]

Many people have mental health issues. Mental health is still being fully understood and still not really accepted in today's society where comments like this very much causes more harm than good. This highlights a fundamental lack of education and understanding around mental health.



Again, another lack of understanding. The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

The true measure of society and all that....

I’m sorry but unless there is a serious, serious mental health problem then no, 99% of people do have a choice.
It does seem, to me anyway, that it is very easy to say “it’s not my fault, it’s the way I was brought up”.
Most people no matter what has happened in there life, can understand right from wrong.

 

[43066]

For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.

With respect, absent a serious mental illness (eg paranoid schizophrenia), it is a choice.

Plenty of people have terrible upbringings and don’t go around behaving like this individual. The best place for him is a prison cell, preferably a squalid and overcrowded one!

 

[RPI]

Many people have mental health issues. Mental health is still being fully understood and still not really accepted in today's society where comments like this very much causes more harm than good. This highlights a fundamental lack of education and understanding around mental health.



Again, another lack of understanding. The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

The true measure of society and all that....

Oh, ok, sorry, that makes stabbing someone seven time ok. My mistake.

 

[LowLevel]

Many people have mental health issues. Mental health is still being fully understood and still not really accepted in today's society where comments like this very much causes more harm than good. This highlights a fundamental lack of education and understanding around mental health.



Again, another lack of understanding. The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

The true measure of society and all that....

Nah, sorry. He was carrying a knife and he stuck it in someone and caused serious injury to others over a train fare.

He's a defect. I don't need to understand him, I need to be protected from him. Not really bothered by the means.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Evil man. Hope he learns from his crime - sadly, probably not

Thank goodness the BMS worker's injuries weren't life threatening and hope he's had the necessary support to return to work

 

[RPI]

Nah, sorry. He was carrying a knife and he stuck it in someone and caused serious injury to others over a train fare.

He's a defect. I don't need to understand him, I need to be protected from him. Not really bothered by the means.

Summed up better than I ever could

 

[Falcon1200]

For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice.and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

For this person there certainly was a choice; A choice to carry a deadly weapon and a choice to use it to assault an innocent worker. And mental health issues do surely not automatically render a person unable to know right from wrong.

This man should have been charged with attempted murder, not GBH, especially as the BT Police said themselves that the injuries could easily have been life-threatening. But I share the concern that the sentence will be inadequate, and will not reflect in any way the immediate and ongoing consequences of his actions.

 

[ComUtoR]

And this somehow excuses stabbing people?

I am not excusing stabbing people.

What world are you in?

Hopefully a compassionate and understanding one where we don't just say lock them up and throw away the key, and in fact lets kick them to the kerb and forget about them.

 

[RPI]

I am not excusing stabbing people.

But... you kind of are though.

 

[InkyScrolls]

The more vulnerable people in our society are more affected. For many, this kind of behaviour isn't a choice, and sadly, yes, a product of their upbringing.

No, it's always a choice unless the person is extremely mentally ill - paranoid schizophrenia is about the only truly mitigating condition, and even then permanent or long-term incarceration is preferable (though in hospital, not prison). There is no excuse for stabbing someone. Being poor doesn't exempt you from basic morality.

 

[Horizon22]

But... you kind of are though.

I think the point made is that rehabilitation is better than just throwing someone in jail, if possible. A lot can goes on in someone's background thinking - wrongly obviously - that certain behaviours (like carrying a knife) are OK which leads to a terrible incident like this. Sending someone to prison for a short time with little/no rehabilitation efforts just makes then more dangerous when they eventually are released. Of course a minority of people just can't be helped.

 

[island]

Nah, sorry. He was carrying a knife and he stuck it in someone and caused serious injury to others over a train fare.

He's a defect. I don't need to understand him, I need to be protected from him. Not really bothered by the means.

Indeed.

 

[DC1989]

If that behaviour isn't a choice then that makes it even more dangerous. It means he's a danger to the public and should be kept apart from them forever

 

[DelayRepay]

I think the point made is that rehabilitation is better than just throwing someone in jail, if possible. A lot can goes on in someone's background thinking - wrongly obviously - that certain behaviours (like carrying a knife) are OK which leads to a terrible incident like this. Sending someone to prison for a short time with little/no rehabilitation efforts just makes then more dangerous when they eventually are released. Of course a minority of people just can't be helped.

I think rehabilitation is important, but whether it's possible depends on the reasons for the offence, and the person concerned.

I don't think anyone should be just thrown in jail, but I think jail should serve to rehabilitate offenders where possible. Until rehabilitated, this person is a threat to the public and so needs to be in jail, or a secure mental health facility.

I think the right of members of the public to go about their business or work without being stabbed is greater than the right of individuals to roam the streets with knives, whatever the reason that they believe that their behaviour is appropriate or acceptable.