Stagecoach South & South East

[RogerOut]

So there’s going to be a bus service from Hastings to Tunbridge Wells on a Sunday. Never thought I’d see that happen!

Lots of extra buses layed in in Eastbourne and Hastings by Stagecoach. Quite a contrast when you look at Kent , who are losing routes left right and centre.

I wonder how some authorities won the Government BIS and others didn’t?

Maybe Kent just doesn’t care much about buses ?

 

[Man of Kent]

So there’s going to be a bus service from Hastings to Tunbridge Wells on a Sunday. Never thought I’d see that happen!

Lots of extra buses layed in in Eastbourne and Hastings by Stagecoach. Quite a contrast when you look at Kent , who are losing routes left right and centre.

I wonder how some authorities won the Government BIS and others didn’t?

Maybe Kent just doesn’t care much about buses ?

Kent is using a large proportion of its various government settlements to keep fares downs for school children, and indeeed to prop up school services that are no longer commercial.

 

[RogerOut]

Kent is using a large proportion of its various government settlements to keep fares downs for school children, and indeeed to prop up school services that are no longer commercial.

So the school services take priority over the rest of the ‘public ‘ services? Genuinely interested.
Bearing in mind Kent is slashing weekend and evening services and some villages won’t even get a bus service at all.

 

[Man of Kent]

So the school services take priority over the rest of the ‘public ‘ services? Genuinely interested.
Bearing in mind Kent is slashing weekend and evening services and some villages won’t even get a bus service at all.

Kent started subsidising school fares many years ago - certainly before 2009. The idea was that it would reduce peak traffic congestion. It is actually an unlimited travel ticket for schooldays across almost every route in the county; the larger operators usually throw in free travel at weekends and in school holidays too.

Over time the annual fee has gone up from £50 to £450, with parents contributing an ever-greater proportion of that sum. The annual net cost to the council in the 2023-24 budget is a little over £5m (for comparison, concessionary fare reimbursement is £13m, and supported bus services is £5m).

 

[Blindtraveler]

As someone who's recently moved to Kent the overall county wide policy on bus services intrigues me. There are elements of it that seem pretty good but then there are others that just don't make any sense. Sorry for slightly off topic post.

 

[Typhoon]

Kent started subsidising school fares many years ago - certainly before 2009. The idea was that it would reduce peak traffic congestion. It is actually an unlimited travel ticket for schooldays across almost every route in the county; the larger operators usually throw in free travel at weekends and in school holidays too.

Over time the annual fee has gone up from £50 to £450, with parents contributing an ever-greater proportion of that sum. The annual net cost to the council in the 2023-24 budget is a little over £5m (for comparison, concessionary fare reimbursement is £13m, and supported bus services is £5m).

Just to add a bit of background for those unfamiliar with secondary schools in Kent to explain why many pupils travel quite long distances to school so rely on the Kent Travel Saver.

Kent still has selective schools (and super-selective schools). mixed and single sex, it may still have a very few single sex non-selective schools (it certainly did until recently), and it has faith schools.

Because most schools are Academies or part of Academy Trusts, they can, and do, take pupils from outside the county boundary. For instance, one grammar school (which probably counts as super-selective) near the county boundary offered 48% of its year 7 places to pupils from outside of Kent in 2022. It only promises half of the places will go to Kent pupils. Therefore any pupil that lives nearby who passed the Kent Test (11+ equivalent) but not spectacularly might need to go further afield for their education, or settle for a non-selective place. If it is the former, they will probably need to take (at least) one bus to/ from school. There have certainly been media accounts of pupils who can see a school (selective or non-selective) from their bedroom window and put it down as first choice who were allocated elsewhere. Also, in order to improve its results, I can think of one village non-selective secondary school which has been trying to become selective. If successful, those who do not pass the Kent Test will need to go travel outside of their village (bus or train) for their secondary education.

The cost of the Travel Saver has been fixed for next year (pupils from low income households get it at a reduced rate) but every year there is flak about it being too expensive. The money has to come from somewhere.


Data from [/url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford/news/number-of-out-of-county-pupils-taking-kent-grammar-school-pl-288902/[/url]

 

[GatwickDepress]

Stagecoach have published the details of the changes funded by the East Sussex bus service improvement plan which will take place from July 23rd along with timetable details.

Bus service improvements in East Sussex

www.stagecoachbus.com

Pleasantly surprised by this, as there were some murmurings at County Hall that the money wouldn't go very far.

A service from the station to Malvern Way at 2301 benefits me immensely.

 

[RogerOut]

I’ve had a quick look at the Hastings timetables. Whilst alot is welcome news, I’m surprised the 98 service will leave Hastings at 8pm to go all the way through to Eastbourne.

Most customers would opt for a 99 to Eastbourne, and I’d imagine the route would be mostly quiet after Bexhill at that time of night. I wouldn’t think many people in the villages the 98 services would be going to Eastbourne or Hastings that late, it may benefit a few workers from the Eastbourne hospital though.

It also appears that the last 99 leaves Eastbourne at 19.45 , which doesn’t seem particularly late. Unless I’ve just misread the timetable.

 

[Typhoon]

I’ve had a quick look at the Hastings timetables. Whilst alot is welcome news, I’m surprised the 98 service will leave Hastings at 8pm to go all the way through to Eastbourne.

Most customers would opt for a 99 to Eastbourne, and I’d imagine the route would be mostly quiet after Bexhill at that time of night. I wouldn’t think many people in the villages the 98 services would be going to Eastbourne or Hastings that late, it may benefit a few workers from the Eastbourne hospital though.

It also appears that the last 99 leaves Eastbourne at 19.45 , which doesn’t seem particularly late. Unless I’ve just misread the timetable.

On the 'Improvements' page https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/bus-service-improvements-in-east-sussex
it states for the 99

(Improvements to the 99 service are commercial changes not funded through ESCC).

As the 99 is a commercial operation, Stagecoach can't feel that there will be sufficient patronage to justify a later service. There is a decent rail service along the coast so it would probably rely on local traffic. I've only been on that route during day time, seemed busy but maybe us oldies are wrapped up in our blankets with a cup of cocoa at that time of night!

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like there’s some fleet movements occurring at the moment with 2 x E400 Scania’s moving from South (ex Coastline at Portsmouth with a number to follow) to Stagecoach Oxford with 7 2015 plate E400 MMCs moving the opposite way to Basingstoke. From Steven Knight Media and Bustimes;

https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/1684207697804029954

Enviro 400MMC 10432 has transferred from Witney to Oxford whilst 10433/34/36/38 have left the fleet and have transferred to


Stagecoach South with 10435/37 to follow.


They are for Basingstoke.

Further Scania/Enviro 400s transferred from


Stagecoach South to Oxford are 15990/93.


15987/88/91 are also due - two to Oxford and one expected at Cheltenham

 

[Class450/4DES]

Looks like there’s some fleet movements occurring at the moment with 2 x E400 Scania’s moving from South (ex Coastline at Portsmouth) to Stagecoach Oxford with 7 2015 plate E400 MMCs moving the opposite way to Basingstoke. From Steven Knight Media and Bustimes;

https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/1684207697804029954

I am guessing these are here to replace Basingstoke's fleet of ALX 400's then. I am unsure if the other depot's ALX 400's will go but I will miss them operating from Basingstoke depot. According to Bustimes.org these MMC's don't have USB charging?

 

[LUYMun]

Looks like there’s some fleet movements occurring at the moment with 2 x E400 Scania’s moving from South (ex Coastline at Portsmouth with a number to follow) to Stagecoach Oxford with 7 2015 plate E400 MMCs moving the opposite way to Basingstoke. From Steven Knight Media and Bustimes;

https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/1684207697804029954

With the introduction of the E400MMCs on the 700 Coastliner, it would seem the first lot of fleet movements have started to occur. AFAIK, some 276xx series E300s transferred to Guildford, while older 275xx E300s are going elsewhere, such as a few in Guildford to Barnsley depot.

Stagecoach have also announced service changes for the Blackwater Valley, Woking and Guildford areas. Most of the changes are frequency changes and minor time revisions, but the most significant are:
- Route 34 increasing to half-hourly all week, with route 35 being shortened to run the Woking to Guildford section only and reducing to a 90-minute frequency. The 34 also no longer serves Crawley Hill, the section being replaced by the new route 12.
- New route 12 being introduced to serve the Mindenhurst housing estate under construction near Deepcut.
- Route 17 in Guildford being withdrawn, replaced by Surrey County Council's DDRT scheme.
- Route 10 between Farnborough and Church Crookham revising its timetable to increase reliability.

Sources:
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...MYY17GYr1yMqIripdYpRD3uksF57qKgSCWzZz_eW-RLbA (Blackwater Valley)
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-27/07/2023-12:31:31:943 (Woking and Guildford)

 

[EnviroExplorer]

I am guessing these are here to replace Basingstoke's fleet of ALX 400's then. I am unsure if the other depot's ALX 400's will go but I will miss them operating from Basingstoke depot. According to Bustimes.org these MMC's don't have USB charging?

That’s correct they don’t have USB charging. The first few batches of E400MMCs were to a lower specification with low-backed seating and no extras like chargers. I believe this continued up to bus 10503, after which they all had higher-backed seating with USB as standard.

 

[JD2168]

With the introduction of the E400MMCs on the 700 Coastliner, it would seem the first lot of fleet movements have started to occur. AFAIK, some 276xx series E300s transferred to Guildford, while older 275xx E300s are going elsewhere, such as a few in Guildford to Barnsley depot.

Stagecoach have also announced service changes for the Blackwater Valley, Woking and Guildford areas. Most of the changes are frequency changes and minor time revisions, but the most significant are:
- Route 34 increasing to half-hourly all week, with route 35 being shortened to run the Woking to Guildford section only and reducing to a 90-minute frequency. The 34 also no longer serves Crawley Hill, the section being replaced by the new route 12.
- New route 12 being introduced to serve the Mindenhurst housing estate under construction near Deepcut.
- Route 17 in Guildford being withdrawn, replaced by Surrey County Council's DDRT scheme.
- Route 10 between Farnborough and Church Crookham revising its timetable to increase reliability.

Sources:
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-updates/serviceupdatesarticle?SituationId=ID-27/07/2023-11:10:40:142&fbclid=IwAR03e81gh2aZPEMYY17GYr1yMqIripdYpRD3uksF57qKgSCWzZz_eW-RLbA (Blackwater Valley)
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-27/07/2023-12:31:31:943 (Woking and Guildford)

I note that some E300’s are moving to Barnsley depot, can only think these are to replace some if not all the remaining MAN E300’s there, some of which are a bit rough.

 

[Class450/4DES]

That’s correct they don’t have USB charging. The first few batches of E400MMCs were to a lower specification with low-backed seating and no extras like chargers. I believe this continued up to bus 10503, after which they all had higher-backed seating with USB as standard.

Ah okay. Thanks!

I note that some E300’s are moving to Barnsley depot, can only think these are to replace some if not all the remaining MAN E300’s there, some of which are a bit rough.

Ah, at least I can still ride them as I go to Barnsley quite often to see family. Its going to be weird seeing former Stagecoach South buses on the e.g 27 Wombwell-Barnsley.

 

[Hophead]

On the day of Brighton Pride, and with GTR declining to run trains, Worthing depot have turned out a couple of extra buses route 17 (Horsham - Brighton). These are double-deckers, which would never normally operate. If you know the route, you'll be relieved to hear that buses are diverted away from Queen Street in Horsham, with its low bridge. The Partridge Green loop is also omitted.

 

[James H]

Cuts in the Ashford area from next weekend

Changes to bus services in and around Ashford from 13 August 2023

www.stagecoachbus.com

We’re making some changes to bus services from Sunday 13 August. Timetables on most routes in Ashford, and some routes linking to Ashford, will change. There will be a reduction in service levels affecting less well-used journeys, but buses will continue to run at core times.

Rolvenden loses its evening service and all remaining Ashford links. Big decline since the days of the hourly East Kent 400.

Hadn’t noticed the 29 had gained a Sunday service last month though as part of the East Sussex service expansions.

Tenterden will lose its Sunday link with Ashford though which is retrograde.

 

[RDP]

Not only the 29 which has gained a Sunday service but the 312 as well.

 

[alex397]

In addition, the village of Wye will no longer have any bus service (apart from school services) with the 1 being cut. Although, at least Wye has an exceptionally good train service for a village of its size - hourly trains to Ramsgate, Canterbury, Ashford, London etc.

The Little Burton housing estate (as well as The Street, Kennington) will also lose its regular(ish) bus service (also on the 1), an estate that at one point had the ‘Little&Often’ minibuses serving it. Although, it seems clear there’s not much demand there.

The Ashford town routes will also lose their evening service, another retrograde step. Many London commuters won’t be able to stay late in London if they rely on the bus to get back home! Although, I have no idea how busy the evening services are. I’ve never felt the need to stay in Ashford that late to find out!

 

[Trainguy34]

The Ashford town routes will also lose their evening service, another retrograde step. Many London commuters won’t be able to stay late in London if they rely on the bus to get back home! Although, I have no idea how busy the evening services are. I’ve never felt the need to stay in Ashford that late to find out!

The C can be very busy, I have friends who commute from Canterbury to Ashford by train before boarding a C to William Harvey Hospital who say they can be quite busy. This will affect then a bit I think as they finish work at around 9-10 pm.

 

[GatwickDepress]

On the day of Brighton Pride, and with GTR declining to run trains, Worthing depot have turned out a couple of extra buses route 17 (Horsham - Brighton). These are double-deckers, which would never normally operate. If you know the route, you'll be relieved to hear that buses are diverted away from Queen Street in Horsham, with its low bridge. The Partridge Green loop is also omitted.

Noticed a few extra buses on the 99 (Hastings - Eastbourne) as well, which were very well loaded leaving Hastings station when I popped into town this morning. Good show by Stagecoach across the board, it seems.

Cuts in the Ashford area from next weekend

Changes to bus services in and around Ashford from 13 August 2023

www.stagecoachbus.com

Rolvenden loses its evening service and all remaining Ashford links. Big decline since the days of the hourly East Kent 400.

Hadn’t noticed the 29 had gained a Sunday service last month though as part of the East Sussex service expansions.

Tenterden will lose its Sunday link with Ashford though which is retrograde.

Blimey, the difference between East Sussex and Kent couldn't be more stark really. Ashford seems to suffer more than other towns, even when it comes to cancellations and disruption.

 

[alex397]

Blimey, the difference between East Sussex and Kent couldn't be more stark really. Ashford seems to suffer more than other towns, even when it comes to cancellations and disruption.

It may just be me, but I find Ashford curious. It could be a thriving town for buses. I’m sure at one point it was the fastest growing town in Europe - I heard that somewhere but I can’t find a source for that.
Non-scientific evidence, but it felt like there was positive growth going on a few years ago in the town centre (New town centre cinema development, Macknades moving in, Curious brewery setting up), then of course Stagecoach introduced the Little & Often minibus scheme which seemed really promising. But in recent years it seems the town has been going backwards into severe decline. It’s not a pleasant place to be at all. It seems less locals are visiting the town centre to do their shopping, and instead driving to the various out of town supermarkets.
I suspect the C-word and the B-word may have had a significant impact, but it would be incredibly controversial to suggest such a thing…

It would be interesting to know more about the demographics of Ashford. Are many of the people living in the various new estates London commuters, who don’t spend most of their time and money in Ashford as they are up in London. Or are they mostly more local commuters, driving everywhere to get to work in Canterbury and shopping at out of town shopping centres/supermarkets.

 

[RDP]

Blimey, the difference between East Sussex and Kent couldn't be more stark really. Ashford seems to suffer more than other towns, even when it comes to cancellations and disruption.

It will soon be even worse. Not only is today the last day of Sunday service on the 2A and 10X but there is also only another three weeks of Sunday service on the 10 leaving Ashford without any Sunday services apart from the town routes.

 

[alex397]

Cutting Sunday services in, say, the 1970s would have been understandable. But in 2023? I’m not so sure! Sundays are often just an ordinary day for a lot of people.

 

[markymark2000]

Cutting Sunday services in, say, the 1970s would have been understandable. But in 2023? I’m not so sure! Sundays are often just an ordinary day for a lot of people.

Sundays are still quieter in most places due to the rules on retail stores so shifts are a lot more condensed with less earlies and lates.

A lot of unions are still in the mindset of Sundays being a day of rest so some Sunday wages for buses drivers are extortionate as well so you need more passengers per bus. Generally lower frequencies on Sundays so less buses out so the buses which are out have the depot costs spread between less buses.

So, combine fixed costs spread over less buses and higher wages, it's not a good mix for having services running.

 

[RogerOut]

Stagecoach don’t pay extra money for wages on Sundays or evenings if anyone thinks that. So Sunday working doesn’t cost the company more than any other day.
But most shops shut at 4pm, there are less workers to take to work and no education places open on Sundays.
Hence why Sundays have less buses out

 

[markymark2000]

Stagecoach don’t pay extra money for wages on Sundays or evenings if anyone thinks that. So Sunday working doesn’t cost the company more than any other day.
But most shops shut at 4pm, there are less workers to take to work and no education places open on Sundays.
Hence why Sundays have less buses out

Are you speaking area specific as I know for a FACT they do pay more on Sundays in almost all areas and there are many on this forum who would back that up.

Evenings the costs is generally the cost between evening peak and last busy buses, ths time between makes too much of a loss and is not viable. Plus dead mileage as the evening demand is generally town/city to home.

 

[RogerOut]

Are you speaking area specific as I know for a FACT they do pay more on Sundays in almost all areas and there are many on this forum who would back that up.

Evenings the costs is generally the cost between evening peak and last busy buses, ths time between makes too much of a loss and is not viable. Plus dead mileage as the evening demand is generally town/city to home.

Stagecoach South East don’t pay extra for Sundays. Can’t speak for other operators or other areas for Stagecoach. Recent ex driver here with friends still there.

 

[markymark2000]

Stagecoach South East don’t pay extra for Sundays. Can’t speak for other operators or other areas for Stagecoach. Recent ex driver here with friends still there.

If they aren't paying more for Sundays, the union will surely have some restrictions in place to make Sundays worth it. Rarely do Sundays work as it's just a Wednesday (normal pay and obliged to work if you have a duty). Very, very rare. If that is such the case, the lack of drivers could be an issue as they try to push their resources into areas where they make the most money.

Another big reason is probably the takeover. Stagecoach was slowly dying since Souter stepped down and since the takeover, they seem to want more and more profit from each route. Less running marginal routes, it's either 'It makes good money or it goes'.

 

[Mwanesh]

Stagecoach don’t pay extra money for wages on Sundays or evenings if anyone thinks that. So Sunday working doesn’t cost the company more than any other day.
But most shops shut at 4pm, there are less workers to take to work and no education places open on Sundays.
Hence why Sundays have less buses out

Stagecoach Wales, Stagecoach South, Stagecoach Bristol and Stagecoach Midlands all have Sunday premiums.