Indeed.
I don't think that either Greater Anglia or our "broken Britain" government come out of this anything other than very badly.
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Stansted Airport fines
- Thread starter sct
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I don't think that either Greater Anglia or our "broken Britain" government come out of this anything other than very badly.
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What about London Luton Airport then - would people expect to use contactless to get there?Just to add to the mix - London Southend Airport ? I'll get my coat
Not sure what Greater Anglia could do differently? They've got signage at Liverpool Street and their website very clearly says contactless isn't accepted.
They want it to be available, but it's outside their control.
Well one thing they could easily do is not fine customers who have made an honest mistake.
Haywain
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But that's what Penalty Fares are designed for. It seems that this has only been considered to be a significant problem since the Penalty Fare was increased from £20.
HullRailMan
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Genuinely comical how many people are saying it isn’t clear enough that Oyster isn’t valid, while completely ignoring the fact that nowhere states that it is valid! The name of the airport is completely irrelevant - Oyster isn’t valid and there is loads of information available that states this. If people choose to ignore it, that’s their problem.
This displays a grave ignorance of the world.
How do you tell those who've made an honest mistake from those taking advantage of the confusion to travel without paying full fare?
I've never tried it, but wonder if it's possible to use contactless to get through the barriers for the Liverpool St to Norwich trains (as they stop at Stratford)
How very customer focused
But just because Penalty Fares exist doesn't mean that the TOC has to throw so much resource into their enforcement, in the context of this particularly pathetic situation. They have chosen to do so. They could have chosen alternatively.
Haywain
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What, to completely ignore a significant loss of revenue?
They would expect it - because it's possible! Stansted is now the only London airport (other than the tiny and little-used Southend airport) that doesn't accept contactless PAYG.
Nobody is forcing them to issue Penalty Fares. People producing contactless cards and trying to touch out are extremely unlikely to be trying it on; revenue blocks are in place at Stansted nearly 24/7 so this would be a highly ineffective fare evasion strategy.
If GA were reasonable, they would recognise this and would instead merely charge the fare due, or the difference between the PAYG maximum fare and the fare due.
Instead they're hiding behind the rules to justify what they're doing - even though it's highly questionable whether they're complying with the signage requirements (thus potentially rendering all of their Penalty Fares unlawful!). Anytime an organisation defends a practice in that manner, they're on a hiding to nothing.
That's as many be, but nobody is forcing them to deal with the situation in this way.
They could just charge an anytime single from Liverpool St.
Isn't this the main basis of the criticism? That it's much easier to earn loads of money through charging people for mistakes than they could make if everyone paid correctly? Grater Anglia are technically permitted to charge Penalty Fares, but they'll receive opprobium in the press for doing it in this manner.
There is a big difference between doing nothing, charging the Anytime Single, and charging a Penalty Fare.
Indeed. They could give up their lucrative £50 / £100 a time racket, but apparently don't want to. I wonder why!?
There is no obvious Penalty Fare signage in the two photos recently posted on here. As displaying correctly worded PF posters seems to be completely beyond most TOCs, even if posters are in place at Liverpool St there is every chance they would not be compliant with the legislative requirements.
afc75
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You can use contactless to get on those trains too. I've certainly seen people at Chelmsford trying to use contactless to exit.
Haywain
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Plenty of people tried to use contactless to Luton Airport Parkway before it was accepted and mostly received Penalty Fares as a result. And it still happens with people trying to use Oyster.
Greater Anglia also have a contactless card scheme for Season tickets, so it is easy for people new to the Railways to see other people 'tapping in' and think they can with a debit / credit card.
On SWR there's now a newish automated message about Penalty Fares. It seems to have replaced the "previously extremely popular" 'See it, say it, sorted' message. I get the impression that there's a national campaign on maximising income via revenue protection. That could only have come from the railways' DfT masters, as HMG is the main beneficiary.
I would expect Greater Anglia to have asked for a let-out at Stansted, as they're getting a right royal kicking for it in the media and they get no actual benefit.
I haven't been to Stansted Airport station in recent years, but I get the impression that there are no automated ticket gates. Is that true? If so it explains why all the ticket inspection activity and staff allocation is necessary anyway.
It might also explain why it isn't in the forefront of Project Oval.
I would expect Greater Anglia to have asked for a let-out at Stansted, as they're getting a right royal kicking for it in the media and they get no actual benefit.
I haven't been to Stansted Airport station in recent years, but I get the impression that there are no automated ticket gates. Is that true? If so it explains why all the ticket inspection activity and staff allocation is necessary anyway.
It might also explain why it isn't in the forefront of Project Oval.
Usually not - there are RPIs at the bottom of the lifts.
I doubt Stansted Airport is the reason it hasn't got that far yet. More likely it will be the smaller intermediate stations.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Agreed, and even when Stansted Airport gets Contactless support I suspect it will be Contactless only for stations between Broxbourne & Stansted Airport. Similar in a way to the extension to Gatwick Airport, where the smaller intermediate stations like Salfords & Redhill were included as a by-product of Oyster/Contactless to Gatwick.
Cambridge and both lines serving it from the south were shown on the original map for Contactless expansion, so there is a potential extra level of complexity beyond just the stations between Broxbourne and the airport.