Starting and finishing short on an Advance Single

Status
Not open for further replies.

SirAlf

Member
Joined
24 Jul 2015
Messages
43
Location
Derbyshire
Can somebody please advise? I've got advance singles from Chesterfield to St Pancras and back, both my booked trains stop at East Midlands Parkway. Am I able to take an earlier outbound train from East Midlands Parkway and get off there on my return?

I'm pretty sure the rules say I can't do this – but I thought I’d read that there was an “understanding” that this is allowed provided I'm not doing it to get around anomalies in the fare structures. All I want to do is get to St Pancras earlier if I can and there isn't an earlier train from Chesterfield

If I am able to do this can somebody please point me to something I can print off to show the guard if necessary?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
26,739
I believe any concessions about where you can board or alight still require use of the booked train, I‘d be surprised if anyone thinks otherwise.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
1,702
If you have an advance single it is only valid on the booked train, no matter where you get on.
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
3,559
Location
UK
Can somebody please advise? I've got advance singles from Chesterfield to St Pancras and back, both my booked trains stop at East Midlands Parkway. Am I able to take an earlier outbound train from East Midlands Parkway and get off there on my return?

I'm pretty sure the rules say I can't do this – but I thought I’d read that there was an “understanding” that this is allowed provided I'm not doing it to get around anomalies in the fare structures. All I want to do is get to St Pancras earlier if I can and there isn't an earlier train from Chesterfield

If I am able to do this can somebody please point me to something I can print off to show the guard if necessary?
Break of journey is not permitted on Advance tickets, though you are correct that a staff brief went out some years ago to advise staff not to reject tickets unless there was an obvious attempt to undercut a fare.

Notwithstanding that internal brief/policy, you could still be refused entry at East Midlands Parkway (unlikely - there aren't any barriers) or required to pay the excess to the cheapest valid walkup fare on the train (a bit more likely, as the guard may notice you've boarded at Parkway, but still unlikely).

More to the point, you're not going to get to St Pancras any earlier by boarding the same train at Parkway. Advance tickets are only valid for the booked service(s) so you can't just jump on any random train at Parkway.

You can, however, change your Advance to an earlier service. Normally this would involve a £10 admin fee plus any difference in fare. however until the end of this year, this fee is being waived if you have booked your ticket from a train company (not Trainline etc.) and request the change by 6pm the day before.

It’s not permitted and you can be charged a penalty fare
You can't be charged a Penalty Fare just for breaking your journey (or starting late/finishing short).
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
9,946
Location
Redcar
You can't be charged a Penalty Fare just for breaking your journey (or starting late/finishing short).

But you can for not having a valid ticket if you board an earlier train with an advance. I believe that was the point being referred to, not the process of starting/ending at a different origin.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
1,702
You can, however, change your Advance to an earlier service. Normally this would involve a £10 admin fee plus any difference in fare. however until the end of this year, this fee is being waived if you have booked your ticket from a train company (not Trainline etc.) and request the change by 6pm the day before.
I believe Trainline are taking part in the 'Book with Confidence' scheme.
 

SirAlf

Member
Joined
24 Jul 2015
Messages
43
Location
Derbyshire
Thank you all so much for your help. I realise now that I was probably trying to by-pass the rules

One final question. Suppose I buy a brand new outbound single from East Midlands Parkway to London on the first train of the day. Could I then use my existing advance ticket from London to Chesterfield on my booked train home and just get off at East Midlands Parkway instead of Chesterfield – because that's where my car would be parked?
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
3,559
Location
UK
Thank you all so much for your help. I realise now that I was probably trying to by-pass the rules

One final question. Suppose I buy a brand new outbound single from East Midlands Parkway to London on the first train of the day. Could I then use my existing advance ticket from London to Chesterfield on my booked train home and just get off at East Midlands Parkway instead of Chesterfield – because that's where my car would be parked?
Again - break of journey isn't officially permitted. But in practice you are likely to "get away" with it.
 

RHolmes

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2019
Messages
343

You can't be charged a Penalty Fare just for breaking your journey (or starting late/finishing short).
[/QUOTE]

But you can for not having a valid ticket if you board an earlier train with an advance. I believe that was the point being referred to, not the process of starting/ending at a different origin.

As above, you can as you don’t posses a valid ticket for the journey taken, just as you can be charged a penalty fare for alighting a train which sets down only at a station.

Advance tickets cannot be broken (or ended short)
 

SirAlf

Member
Joined
24 Jul 2015
Messages
43
Location
Derbyshire
OK thank you all again for your help. I’ll just buy a new Super Off-Peak Return from East Midlands Parkway
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
3,559
Location
UK
As above, you can as you don’t posses a valid ticket for the journey taken, just as you can be charged a penalty fare for alighting a train which sets down only at a station.

Advance tickets cannot be broken (or ended short)
An Advance ticket is still a valid ticket if the journey is broken. That an excess is payable doesn't make it invalid.

This is no different to how a Penalty Fare can't be issued for travelling on the 'wrong route' on a route restricted ticket, only the excess charged.

There is no legal basis on which to charge anyone anything extra for ignoring set down/pick up only restrictions, if they manage to get on the train and have a ticket that covers the journey they actually undertake.
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
9,885
If the OP were to use their Advance fare from London to Leicester and then buy a new ticket from Leicester to Loughborough, while I appreciate that it is strictly against the rules of the conditions for the Advance ticket, that would appear not to lead to a situation where there would be an issue of not being able to exit Loughborough station.
 
Last edited:

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
12,485
Location
Airedale
If the OP were to use their Advance fare from London to Leicester and then buy a new ticket from Leicester to Loughborough, while I appreciate that it is strictly against the rules of the conditions for the Advance ticket, that would appear not to lead to a situation where there would be an issue of not being able to exit Loughborough station.
Detail: the station being discussed is EM Parkway, but the point is valid. :)
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
56,433
Location
Yorkshire
Those who claim a Penalty Fare can be charged are incorrect.

Providing you travel with the correct company, if you travel on an earlier train you can be charged a new ticket, at the lowest 'walk up' price, but your existing ticket does not go towards the price.

If you travel with the correct company and on the correct train, but start or finish short, the rules allow the company to charge the difference between the fare paid and the cost of the lowest 'walk up' price for the journey actually made, but in reality this is unlikely. Staff are instructed to let you off, if you are not attempting to pay less than the fare would have been for the journey you are actually making.

However many people don't understand the rules, not even some railway staff.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
12,981
Location
0036
OK thank you all again for your help. I’ll just buy a new Super Off-Peak Return from East Midlands Parkway
You don’t need to do that. You can change your existing tickets into a super off-peak return from Chesterfield to London Terminals and use that instead. This change can be done at any competent staffed station, amongst other options.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top