Starting short on Liverpool to Norwich route

[Tazi Hupefi]

Go back to the basics, Advance tickets are issued subject to specific conditions as advertised:

Advance Tickets Terms and Conditions | National Rail

The terms and conditions for using Advance tickets on National Rail services. Advance tickets are single tickets for selected journeys, available in First Class and Standard Class, offering the best available price for each journey.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Some key points (abbreviated for clarity):

5.1 You must be at the departure station shown on your ticket in good time to catch the train.

6.1 You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station

7.2 Changes to tickets cannot be made on-board the train.

I do not think you would have any problems convincing a magistrate that a breach of Byelaw 18 has occurred.

Furthermore, even at a common sense level, the ticket is clearly invalid if an excess fare at additional cost is required to convert it into a fare/ ticket that IS valid.

 

[redreni]

What significance, if any, do we think should be ascribed to the use of "will be charged" rather than "may be charged"?

That doesn't seem to me to impose any duty on the passenger to pay the excess if not asked to, still less to do so before boarding the train.

I do doubt, however, that a person who boards a train to Norwich and produces an advance single ticket to Norwich having started short, would have the option to decline to pay the excess and instead buy a ticket to the next station. I think the OP may have been contemplating that. I would certainly agree that if EMR work out that an excess is due and request that it is paid but the passenger declines to pay it, the passenger is then travelling without a valid ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Furthermore, even at a common sense level, the ticket is clearly invalid if an excess fare at additional cost is required to convert it into a fare/ ticket that IS valid.

What, then, is the point of that clause of the NRCoT? Those three specific forms of invalidity are called out for special treatment (an excess), anything else is treated as no ticket held.

Furthermore 9.4 refers to Advances, why would one part of the NRCoT apply to them and one part not?

Plus, if it wanted to say "If you hold an Advance ticket and wish to do one of these things [...] an excess may be paid before boarding. It may be paid on board only where no open booking office was present at the time of travelling" it would say that.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

All of this is pointlessly speculative, as TOCs simply take a pragmatic view and by and large do follow the guidance, which again, is to ignore the breach by the customer, not that a breach does not occur in the first place - so long as the customer is not attempting to obtain an Advance fare from a station where they are not available from or otherwise seeking to avoid payment of the appropriate fare due.

The NRCoT is a contractual document, but it is not the only set of rights or obligations, and it cannot be read or relied upon solely in isolation to other legislation, regulation or other terms.

The conditions also specify this:

When you are at stations, on train services or other facilities on the National Rail Network, you are also subject to the Railway Byelaws. A copy of these can be found at www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws or you can ask at a station Ticket office for details.

The word "also" is important here, as it clearly indicates although you have rights and obligations under NRCoT, you ALSO have responsibilities under the Railway Byelaws. The NRCoT then sets out the approach that may be taken if the TOC proceeds according to the NRCoT, and not if the TOC proceeds according to other legislation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The word "also" is important here, as it clearly indicates although you have rights and obligations under NRCoT, you ALSO have responsibilities under the Railway Byelaws. The NRCoT then sets out the approach that may be taken if the TOC proceeds according to the NRCoT, and not if the TOC proceeds according to other legislation.

It does seem that the TOC can choose to prosecute, but if it does so in breach of the NRCoT it is in breach of contract by doing so (because the NRCoT is the basis of the contract for transport in which the customer and the railway have engaged).

This appears to create an odd situation where the TOC can prosecute the passenger but the passenger could sue for the breach...wonder did that ever happen?

 

[bspahh]

Would it help to park at the intermediate station, get a single to Liverpool and then use your original ticket?

Your car would end up at the right place, and you wouldn't need to worry about ticket inspections.