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Station name pronounciation

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pdeaves

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I am not an expert in Welsh place names or how to pronounce them. There is one station that I would love to know the correct way to say it.

Rhiwbina.

That looks like I should say 'Ribena' (as in the drink). Is this anywhere near correct?

Thanks!
 
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Llanigraham

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No.

Rhiw rhymes with true, similar to Rue (the day)
Bina as in By Nah.

Ru By Na.

Brought up very near there and my parents lived there.
 

PHILIPE

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Dr_Paul

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The 'w' in Welsh is a vowel, pronounced roughly as 'oo' in English as in 'too', so it would be pronounced, I guess, Ree-oo-beena. I also think that the 'h' after the 'r' modifies the latter a bit, but I'm not sure quite how. It's best find a Welsh speaker to help us out.
 

PHILIPE

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The 'w' in Welsh is a vowel, pronounced roughly as 'oo' in English as in 'too', so it would be pronounced, I guess, Ree-oo-beena. I also think that the 'h' after the 'r' modifies the latter a bit, but I'm not sure quite how. It's best find a Welsh speaker to help us out.

I am a Welsh speaker.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I've heard it more as Hrrioob-eye-na, but might be wrong.
Generally, Rh is rolled quite hard, with the h first. eg Rhuthun and Rhyl are pronounced (by the BBC anyway) as Hrrithin and Hrril/Hrrul respectively.
But there's plenty of variation across Wales, even by locals.
Then there's Ffynnongroyw, and Pontcysyllte…
Pontsticill Junction always makes me think. I don't think I've ever got it right.
 

mmh

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The 'w' in Welsh is a vowel, pronounced roughly as 'oo' in English as in 'too', so it would be pronounced, I guess, Ree-oo-beena. I also think that the 'h' after the 'r' modifies the latter a bit, but I'm not sure quite how. It's best find a Welsh speaker to help us out.

It's not as straightforward as that. W is a "vowel" but can be pronounced with either the vowel sound or the similar consonant sound as it is in English depending on the word and the adjacent letters. For example, "Gwynedd" (the place), "Wyn" (the name), "gwasanaeth" ('service')

Sadly, despite being Welsh I can only speak pidgin Welsh so I'm not sure, but perhaps it's possible it's a consonant if the following letter is a vowel - the examples above all have a vowel after the W and would sound very odd and disjointed if the W was pronounced as a vowel.
 

PeterC

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In that part of Wales I would take the advice of a local (see the second post in this thread) as the pronunciation isn't always "pure" Welsh.
 

Llanigraham

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In that part of Wales I would take the advice of a local (see the second post in this thread) as the pronunciation isn't always "pure" Welsh.

See post 2!
I lived in Whitchurch for 13 years and my parents lived in Rhiwbina for an additional 20 years.
And The Deri was their local.
 

Dr_Paul

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In that part of Wales I would take the advice of a local (see the second post in this thread) as the pronunciation isn't always "pure" Welsh.

I learnt about Welsh pronunciation and the Welsh alphabet from a Welsh-speaking couple in Dolgellau; had I spent more time up there I would have had a go at learning the language. When I mentioned some places I'd visited in North Wales to a pal from Cardiff, he told me that I was pronouncing them all wrong. When I told him that this is what I'd been told by people from the Welsh-speaking north, he said, 'Well, what would they know?' Somewhat paradoxically, he doesn't actually speak Welsh.

It's not as straightforward as that. W is a "vowel" but can be pronounced with either the vowel sound or the similar consonant sound as it is in English depending on the word and the adjacent letters. For example, "Gwynedd" (the place), "Wyn" (the name), "gwasanaeth" ('service').

Yes, of course. I forgot that 'w' can also serve as a consonant.
 

glynmonhughes

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It's not as straightforward as that. W is a "vowel" but can be pronounced with either the vowel sound or the similar consonant sound as it is in English depending on the word and the adjacent letters. For example, "Gwynedd" (the place), "Wyn" (the name), "gwasanaeth" ('service')

Sadly, despite being Welsh I can only speak pidgin Welsh so I'm not sure, but perhaps it's possible it's a consonant if the following letter is a vowel - the examples above all have a vowel after the W and would sound very odd and disjointed if the W was pronounced as a vowel.

All three examples of the w sound you draw upon would have exactly the same sound. The only Welsh letter (including diphthongs, such as dd, ll, ff etc) which changes sound is y, where it can be sounded like uuuh or eee. So, Y Fflint sounds like Uuuh Flint while ty sounds like tea.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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The problem with Welsh is that it isn't one language... there's North, South, Pembroke, Ecclesiastic and probably more...
as an example of the differences "now" in south Welsh is nawr {pronounced to rhyme with "hour"} whereas in north Welsh it is rwan {roo-an} or the word for place "Lle" in North Wales "Ble" in South Wales. Then of course virtually every village/ valley has it's own peculiar dialect. I used to drive a long distance bus route and "thankyou very much" {diolch yn fawr in Welsh} came out as everything from "dee-olkh un vow-er" to "dockavor" and every variation in between. Always best to take advice on locals, preferably born and bred, as to pronunciation of any given place name
 

mmh

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All three examples of the w sound you draw upon would have exactly the same sound. The only Welsh letter (including diphthongs, such as dd, ll, ff etc) which changes sound is y, where it can be sounded like uuuh or eee. So, Y Fflint sounds like Uuuh Flint while ty sounds like tea.

Y can be like the English i in "is" too, e.g. gwyrdd or the second y in ynys. U has different sounds too, e.g. the eee sound at the end of teulu or the "is" i-style sound in Llandudno.
 

glynmonhughes

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The problem with Welsh is that it isn't one language... there's North, South, Pembroke, Ecclesiastic and probably more...
as an example of the differences "now" in south Welsh is nawr {pronounced to rhyme with "hour"} whereas in north Welsh it is rwan {roo-an} or the word for place "Lle" in North Wales "Ble" in South Wales. Then of course virtually every village/ valley has it's own peculiar dialect. I used to drive a long distance bus route and "thankyou very much" {diolch yn fawr in Welsh} came out as everything from "dee-olkh un vow-er" to "dockavor" and every variation in between. Always best to take advice on locals, preferably born and bred, as to pronunciation of any given place name

Welsh is far from unique in that regard. Think of English and compare Scouse with Geordie, or Glaswegian with Bristolian. The solution, in English, is Received Pronunciation, sometimes referred to as "BBC" English. That sort of differentiation does exist in Welsh, i.e. speaking the language in its correct grammatical idiom. Lle and Ble, for instance, are contractions of Ym mha le . . . The example of 'dockavor' just sounds lazy: ta for thank you might be the equivalent. The announcements made by Arriva at present are very clear, contain neither slang nor dialect and have little trace of a particular accent.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Welsh is far from unique in that regard. Think of English and compare Scouse with Geordie, or Glaswegian with Bristolian. The solution, in English, is Received Pronunciation, sometimes referred to as "BBC" English. That sort of differentiation does exist in Welsh, i.e. speaking the language in its correct grammatical idiom. Lle and Ble, for instance, are contractions of Ym mha le . . . The example of 'dockavor' just sounds lazy: ta for thank you might be the equivalent. The announcements made by Arriva at present are very clear, contain neither slang nor dialect and have little trace of a particular accent.
I wasn't trying to suggest that Welsh is peculiar in having differences between regions... and thanks, I've learned something new {why there is Ble and Lle}... rather I was just suggesting that the best way forward is to ask a local before we get into a slanging match as to who is right and wrong.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The problem with Welsh is that it isn't one language... there's North, South, Pembroke, Ecclesiastic and probably more...
as an example of the differences "now" in south Welsh is nawr {pronounced to rhyme with "hour"} whereas in north Welsh it is rwan {roo-an} or the word for place "Lle" in North Wales "Ble" in South Wales. Then of course virtually every village/ valley has it's own peculiar dialect. I used to drive a long distance bus route and "thankyou very much" {diolch yn fawr in Welsh} came out as everything from "dee-olkh un vow-er" to "dockavor" and every variation in between. Always best to take advice on locals, preferably born and bred, as to pronunciation of any given place name
"Thank-you" and the equivalent phrases in other languages are used so often that they are frequently shortened and (in English at least) often replaced with synonyms. French people will often say "merz" to shop assistants rather than "merci", and in German the last syllable of "danke" is often dropped. I spent only 3 days in Czechia but when I got my coffee from the trolley on the train home I said "deku" rather than "dekuji" (my spelling may be off there) because I was so used to saying it. Most native speakers seemed to do the same, in similar situations.

This is an example of what I'd call "newspaper-seller syndrome": the phenomenon of repeated phrases becoming shortened over time which leads to the guy selling the Telegraph & Argus in Bradford city centre sounding like he's doing primal scream therapy!
 

backontrack

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Actually Alnmouth is pronounced Ale-mouth. So Alnmouth for Alnwick is Alemouth for Annick.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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as an example of the differences "now" in south Welsh is nawr {pronounced to rhyme with "hour"} whereas in north Welsh it is rwan {roo-an}

Apart from these two words paradoxically being the reverse of each other, it's mystifying to see the south version on road signs in the north ("arafwch nawr") rather than the north version. What do they say in mid-Wales?
I always get irritated by seeing "Drenewydd" on buses heading for Newtown, when it should be (shouldn't it?) either "Y Drenywedd" or "Trenewydd".
Welsh is gloriously inconsistent!
 

Llanigraham

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Apart from these two words paradoxically being the reverse of each other, it's mystifying to see the south version on road signs in the north ("arafwch nawr") rather than the north version. What do they say in mid-Wales?
I always get irritated by seeing "Drenewydd" on buses heading for Newtown, when it should be (shouldn't it?) either "Y Drenywedd" or "Trenewydd".
Welsh is gloriously inconsistent!

Which bit? The language used in Aberytswyth is different to that used in Builth Wells, or Dolgellau, or Llanfyllin. I fact even across Ceredigion you will hear a difference; Cardigan is more southern, whilst Aber is more "gog". In fact in Aber I suspect I hear more "BBC Welsh" from the younger generation than anything else.

We were up in Porthmadog last year and went into Tesco to buy some milk. We are quite used to look for "llaeth" and couldn't find any; why? Because it was labelled as "llefrith".
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Apart from these two words paradoxically being the reverse of each other, it's mystifying to see the south version on road signs in the north ("arafwch nawr") rather than the north version. What do they say in mid-Wales?
I always get irritated by seeing "Drenewydd" on buses heading for Newtown, when it should be (shouldn't it?) either "Y Drenywedd" or "Trenewydd".
Welsh is gloriously inconsistent!
on the other hand "playground" in south Wales is always Lle Chwarae when it should be Ble Chwarae... and I always find it funny that buses are "not in service" in English but "not in a service" in Welsh!
 
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