• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Stations which could be joined together to make a better large station

Status
Not open for further replies.

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
590
That would move it even further away from the centre.
By 100 meters in case of Shrub Hill and 300m in case of Foregate Street .

There is also question - where the Centre of Worcester is ( or will be ).
With Shrub Hill Quarter regeneration project being planned , new station would be somewhat right there , where it needs to be .
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

WAO

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2019
Messages
910
It's often suggested that Burscough's two stations could be merged (or rather replaced with a new combined station) at the point where the Preston and Southport lines cross. Though it would mean that any service over a reopened south-west curve would have to skip Burscough entirely.
I think that this is the only practical way forward. The cost of curves, junctions, signalling, as well as increased train mileage must rule out anything like, in a rural hinterland. If Skelmersdale isn't viable....

The high/level/low level station would only take agricultural land, albeit of a conscientious local farmer. It might also have a car park and could become a "Liverpool North Parkway", with trains to everywhere. The downside might be convenience of access if the existing stations closed - I suspect we are talking of three Burscoughs, not one!

WAO
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
9,253
I think that this is the only practical way forward. The cost of curves, junctions, signalling, as well as increased train mileage must rule out anything like, in a rural hinterland. If Skelmersdale isn't viable....
I’m no expert but curves would be cheaper than a multilevel new station surely!
 

Ken H

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,597
Location
N Yorks
By 100 meters in case of Shrub Hill and 300m in case of Foregate Street .

There is also question - where the Centre of Worcester is ( or will be ).
With Shrub Hill Quarter regeneration project being planned , new station would be somewhat right there , where it needs to be .
Foregate St is right in the centre of it and is a busy station. Moving it away from Foregate St would be a bad idea. Put in connections to allow trains from Droitwich to serve Platform 1, so they can reverse and then serve Shrub Hill.
 

Basil Jet

On Moderation
Joined
23 Apr 2022
Messages
1,090
Location
London
Another example that no-one has mentioned so far is Putney (National Rail) and East Putney (LU District Line). They could close the existing Putney station and replace it with a new interchange station where the District Line crosses over the Windsor Lines, but that would be less convenient for Putney High Street. For many years there has been talk of creating a second entrance to Putney station off the Upper Richmond Road or Oxford Road, which would make interchange between the two stations more convenient, but so far nothing has ever come of it.
When you look at the railway map, it is hard to find many journeys facilitated by a Putney interchange apart from infrequently performed suburb to suburb journeys.
 

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
590
Is that a benefit? GoogleMaps measurement has Shrub Hill to the triangle as 330m as Foregate St 800m, so much further.
What’s the benefit of having 2 stations around the corner and one of them having no parking space at all ?

From platform 1 at Shrub Hill you need to walk even less than 100m to triangle and I am not sure how even 800m , you claim from Foregate Street , makes much difference in terms of “moving station even further away” from the City centre .

The city centre will move away from , where it is towards regenerated area around Shrub Hill .

In fact Foregate Street could even stay where it is convenient , but “new” , if ever built, Shrub Hill should be in the triangle giving best connections from all directions .

Current layout is just not good .
 
Last edited:

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
18,561
Location
Yorkshire
I’m no expert but curves would be cheaper than a multilevel new station surely!
Putting the curves in wouldn't be simple- you'd have to modify the signalling of both routes at the very least... you've then got to decide what you're doing with the services, for example would the Ormskirks terminate at Burscough or run through to Southport? Likewise with the Preston service. If you really wanted to do it on the cheap you could theoretically extend both curves to bay platforms either side of the Southport lines with no pointwork, which would avoid any signalling stuff on the Wigan to Southport line, but you'd have to build those bays instead.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
9,253
Putting the curves in wouldn't be simple- you'd have to modify the signalling of both routes at the very least... you've then got to decide what you're doing with the services, for example would the Ormskirks terminate at Burscough or run through to Southport? Likewise with the Preston service. If you really wanted to do it on the cheap you could theoretically extend both curves to bay platforms either side of the Southport lines with no pointwork, which would avoid any signalling stuff on the Wigan to Southport line, but you'd have to build those bays instead.
Sure, but you would need to change the signalling and build platforms for a multilevel station, plus approach roads, buildings, parking, bus provision etc etc.
I would stop Merseyrail at Burscough and have a Preston-Southport through service - that would be pretty useful wouldn’t it, judging by the roads between them.
 

Western Sunset

Established Member
Joined
23 Dec 2014
Messages
2,808
Location
Wimborne, Dorset
When I walk between Euston and St Pan/KX I invariably walk along Euston Road.

However, last week I thought I'd try the recommended walking route between the two stations. So, I turned left at the bottom of the steps outside Euston, as shown by a large poster. But then where do I go? Couldn't see any further direction markers. Eventually took a side street and ended-up on Euston Road again.

This walking route needs to be properly sign-posted if it's to be effective.
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,383
If we’re extending to walking routes, I seem to remember in another thread people complaining that interchange between Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill was unsafe to walk (because of the heavy traffic and lack of pavements) so perhaps that’s a candidate for a good walking route.

Edit. As an aside - there must also be number of station pairs, particularly in metro areas, where it is possible to travel between them by rail but actually quicker to follow a walking route.
Plenty of room for a cycle track linking Junction to Pen Mill AND the old Town station site
 

urbophile

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2015
Messages
2,294
Location
Liverpool
When I walk between Euston and St Pan/KX I invariably walk along Euston Road.

However, last week I thought I'd try the recommended walking route between the two stations. So, I turned left at the bottom of the steps outside Euston, as shown by a large poster. But then where do I go? Couldn't see any further direction markers. Eventually took a side street and ended-up on Euston Road again.

This walking route needs to be properly sign-posted if it's to be effective.
Quite. I've become used to it, and quite enjoy the glimpse of inner-city residential living and the pioneering Jellicoe flats, as a welcome contrast to impersonal and smelly Euston Road. But the first couple of times were confusing (especially in the easterly direction). And mobility-impaired passengers beware, there is no easily accessible route.
 

Western Sunset

Established Member
Joined
23 Dec 2014
Messages
2,808
Location
Wimborne, Dorset
Glad it wasn't just me who felt the route could be better signed. Found this website which has a plan of the route. They say it's well signed; I don't believe that... https://urbanpartners.london/wellbeing-walk/

They also recommend another route south of Euston Road, but that seems a crazy way to go as one has to cross the busy Euston Road twice!

I'll just stick with my usual (direct) route in future.
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,740
Location
Ilfracombe
What about replacing Chislehurst and Bickley stations with a single multilevel station at the centre of Chislehurst Junction. Transferring the Bromley South and Orpington fast service calls to this new station would mean easy transfer between the Southeastern and Chatham mainlines without needing to get a train which goes around the curves at Chislehurst junction. No need for any services to do BromleySouth-Orpington or LondonBridge-Swanley during normal conditions.
 

andreading

Member
Joined
27 Apr 2019
Messages
25
How about Canary Wahrf with 3 same named stations and a labrynthine route between them. I used Eleiazeth Line and wanted to get the DLR to Greenwich and got lost.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
9,392
Location
London
Foregate St is right in the centre of it and is a busy station. Moving it away from Foregate St would be a bad idea. Put in connections to allow trains from Droitwich to serve Platform 1, so they can reverse and then serve Shrub Hill.

I agree that it's the perfect location but it's almost too central in that it's very congested with little expansion opportunity. It's 2 basic platforms on a curve above the main street. Very narrow concourse/entrance area.
 

Ken H

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,597
Location
N Yorks
I agree that it's the perfect location but it's almost too central in that it's very congested with little expansion opportunity. It's 2 basic platforms on a curve above the main street. Very narrow concourse/entrance area.
sorry. I am biased. I think its a smashing place. esp the little cafe at the end of Plat 1.
 

SynthD

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2020
Messages
1,577
Location
UK
How about Canary Wahrf with 3 same named stations and a labrynthine route between them. I used Eleiazeth Line and wanted to get the DLR to Greenwich and got lost.
If we are sticking to the original point of connections behind gate lines, there are no gate lines for the DLR. There is probably a good reason for no connection between Liz and Jubilee. This, and most answers here, could be solved by signage off NR property.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
7,566
How about Canary Wahrf with 3 same named stations and a labrynthine route between them. I used Eleiazeth Line and wanted to get the DLR to Greenwich and got lost.
The thing about the Canary Wharf area, is that there are several DLR stations, all useful for different interchanges.

For Jubilee to DLR, Heron Quays is the best DLR station
For Elizabeth to DLR, West India Quay is the best DLR station
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
16,197
Location
Epsom
When I walk between Euston and St Pan/KX I invariably walk along Euston Road.

However, last week I thought I'd try the recommended walking route between the two stations. So, I turned left at the bottom of the steps outside Euston, as shown by a large poster. But then where do I go? Couldn't see any further direction markers. Eventually took a side street and ended-up on Euston Road again.

This walking route needs to be properly sign-posted if it's to be effective.
The signposts are probably not very visible to those unfamiliar with the route because they are vertical ones on lamp posts. There are quite a lot of them, but being the same shape and orientation as the lamp posts on which they are mounted... hmm... not sure who signed that off!
 

MPW

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2021
Messages
208
Location
Orpington
What about replacing Chislehurst and Bickley stations with a single multilevel station at the centre of Chislehurst Junction. Transferring the Bromley South and Orpington fast service calls to this new station would mean easy transfer between the Southeastern and Chatham mainlines without needing to get a train which goes around the curves at Chislehurst junction. No need for any services to do BromleySouth-Orpington or LondonBridge-Swanley during normal conditions.
I've thought about this too, but with a really fun and not realistic addition of cable car up the hill to chislehurst village. From the junction a direct route up through farmland could avoid going over houses all the way up to watts Lane where it would be short amd flat walk to village and right next to coopers school.

Auto-frosting glass could make it acceptable to extend further over the houses and all the way to the larger High Street on other side of the common with a second station.

The village is currently not very well served by the station.

LR's Monday Reads today had an article about better connecting a couple stations in Philadelphia

 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
9,253
The thing about the Canary Wharf area, is that there are several DLR stations, all useful for different interchanges.

For Jubilee to DLR, Heron Quays is the best DLR station
For Elizabeth to DLR, West India Quay is the best DLR station
West India Quay has a limited service doesn’t it?
 

SynthD

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2020
Messages
1,577
Location
UK
West India Quay has a limited service doesn’t it?
If you want to go towards the City you’d stay on the Liz Line, and once the bridge to Poplar opens you can go directly there for north or east.
 

Shimbleshanks

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2012
Messages
1,126
Location
Purley
Glad it wasn't just me who felt the route could be better signed. Found this website which has a plan of the route. They say it's well signed; I don't believe that... https://urbanpartners.london/wellbeing-walk/

They also recommend another route south of Euston Road, but that seems a crazy way to go as one has to cross the busy Euston Road twice!

I'll just stick with my usual (direct) route in future.
Here is my recommended foot route Euston to St Pancras route. Strictly speaking, it isn’t all legal on a bicycle so I would never recommend that you cycle it. I would never do such a thing myself, of course…

Exit Euston by stairs on east side to Eversholt St.

Cross Eversholt St using the pelican crossing and then turn almost immediately right into Doric Way.

Follow Doric Way for a short distance, take the second turning on the right which is a narrow passage marked Churchway (confusingly, the first turning on the right, a rather wider road, is also called Churchway; you need the narrow passage with the Islamic Cultural Centre on it).

Emerge from Churchway onto Chalton St and then go almost straight across keeping the Somers Town Coffee House (actually a rather nice pub) on your right. Go through the gate in the iron railings and keep going straight, keeping the block of flats to your right. Go through the second gate and emerge onto Ossulton St. Turn left onto Ossulton St. (I have done this walk many times and have never known these gates to be locked. But admittedly, I have never attempted it at 3am.)

Take the next available right. Under normal circumstances this would be Dangoor Walk but this is currently closed because of some ongoing repairs to a building. So at the moment, carry on a little further and turn right into Brill Place.

Dangoor Place emerges virtually opposite the side entrance to London St Pancras International. From Brill Place you need to turn right and go down Midland Road for a short distance.

If you are heading for King’s Cross, go straight on through St Pancras station and you will emerge virtually opposite it.
 
Last edited:

MPW

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2021
Messages
208
Location
Orpington
If you want to go towards the City you’d stay on the Liz Line, and once the bridge to Poplar opens you can go directly there for north or east.
I can't find any updates to this. Guess it'll be a few years still
 

AlastairFraser

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2018
Messages
3,378
There was a mad plan to build a footpath round the back - basically building a remote back alley to replace a quick walk along a wide footpath with plenty of traffic and other ‘overwatch’
See that is a smart idea with lifts up from Dorking station as an elevated walkway, it would provide step-free access to Deepdene station at the same time (quite difficult with the current station entrance I think). Dorking isn't a particularly shifty place at night, but building some station facilities for Deepdene simultaneously (perhaps a platform extension too) wouldn't go amiss.
 

sprunt

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
1,377
If you want to go towards the City you’d stay on the Liz Line, and once the bridge to Poplar opens you can go directly there for north or east.
But if you want to go south most trains don't stop at West India Quay.
 

HarryL

Member
Joined
14 Sep 2020
Messages
258
Location
Leeds
It's a well worn path as to why it never happened, but I still think the two Bradford stations should have been connected and turned into one larger station. The chance was there before the shopping centre was built and I firmly believe in any "richer" city there'd have been more political will to make it happen while the opportunity was available no matter the cost.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top