Status of bus events

[DunsBus]

The Scottish Vintage Bus Museum will make a decision by the end of June as to whether this year's Open Weekend, scheduled for the weekend of 15/16 August, goes ahead or not.

 

[DunsBus]

Latest call-off is the SYTT Open Day on 19th July.

 

[DunsBus]

The Scottish Vintage Bus Museum will make a decision by the end of June as to whether this year's Open Weekend, scheduled for the weekend of 15/16 August, goes ahead or not.

Update: It has now been confirmed that the SVBM is to remain closed to the public for the remainder of the 2020 season due to the Covid-19 restrictions and that all events planned for the rest of this year, including the Open Weekend in August, have been cancelled.

 

[83G/84D]

I highly doubt Showbus will be going ahead at this rate

Still taking place according to their website with special COVID 19 precautions.

The ‘Buses festival’ at Gaydon is becoming a virtual event, be interesting to see how that works!

 

[MB162435]

The Penzance Heritage Rally Day was originally delayed until the end of the year, but can see it being cancelled now especially if the second wave happens as predicted in around October time

 

[carlberry]

The Penzance Heritage Rally Day was originally delayed until the end of the year, but can see it being cancelled now especially if the second wave happens as predicted in around October time

What is the Penzance Heritage Rally Day ? If you mean April's Penzance VR Revival & Vintage Bus Running Day that was cancelled in March and wont be returning until next year.

 

[MB162435]

What is the Penzance Heritage Rally Day ? If you mean April's Penzance VR Revival & Vintage Bus Running Day that was cancelled in March and wont be returning until next year.

It is also known as the Penzance Running Day, so either name is fine I would of thought

It was originally delayed during the early days of the Pandemic, as they said they hoped to hold it later in the year if everything had blown over

 

[woodhouse122]

Shame Sandtoft Gathering was called off this year as that was a nice event ,hoping they can open up for the Isle of axholme running day in October

 

[geoffk]

In contrast to heritage railways, which are now gradually reopening, albeit with social distancing, pre-booking and other measures in place, bus events continue to be cancelled. Looking at the on-line Bus Events Diary, I see that almost every event is cancelled up to the end of September. Rallies such as the one at Kirkby Stephen which I usually attend include a ride between there and Brough. The law doesn't allow fares to be charged and so the bus owner is dependent on donations put into a bucket when people alight. Social distancing would mean fewer donations per trip so perhaps taking a bus is just not viable, taking into account the cost of fuel. There are typically also stalls selling bus memorabilia, books and timetables and these tend to have enthusiasts crowding round. Often these events are annual so most or all would have happened in the post-Covid period. I've checked some of the museums and see that the Manchester Museum of Transport is closed "until September at the earliest", the North West Museum of Road Transport in St.Helens is open on Saturdays in August, the Dewsbury Bus Museum appears to be closed, with the November event currently on hold, and I can't find anything about Keighley - those are the museums nearest to me. The Lincolnshire Road Transport Museum at Hykeham is closed for this season, meaning the regular November event is cancelled.

Does anyone know more, or wish to comment?

*MOD NOTE* This was originally posted in a new thread, but has been moved to the existing thread.

 

[0B00]

Wythall Transport Museum reopened yesterday and are running an event on Bank Holiday 30th & 31st August.

 

[carlberry]

In contrast to heritage railways, which are now gradually reopening, albeit with social distancing, pre-booking and other measures in place, bus events continue to be cancelled. Looking at the on-line Bus Events Diary, I see that almost every event is cancelled up to the end of September. Rallies such as the one at Kirkby Stephen which I usually attend include a ride between there and Brough. The law doesn't allow fares to be charged and so the bus owner is dependent on donations put into a bucket when people alight. Social distancing would mean fewer donations per trip so perhaps taking a bus is just not viable, taking into account the cost of fuel. There are typically also stalls selling bus memorabilia, books and timetables and these tend to have enthusiasts crowding round. Often these events are annual so most or all would have happened in the post-Covid period. I've checked some of the museums and see that the Manchester Museum of Transport is closed "until September at the earliest", the North West Museum of Road Transport in St.Helens is open on Saturdays in August, the Dewsbury Bus Museum appears to be closed, with the November event currently on hold, and I can't find anything about Keighley - those are the museums nearest to me. The Lincolnshire Road Transport Museum at Hykeham is closed for this season, meaning the regular November event is cancelled.

Does anyone know more, or wish to comment?

*MOD NOTE* This was originally posted in a new thread, but has been moved to the existing thread.

It should be pointed out that any attempt to offset the cost of operation via donations is also illegal.

Currently to operate any event that's going to involve more than 30 people in one place needs a proper covid plan including provision of cleaning facilities, signposts to enforce distancing and enough marshals to remind people of the rules. Most events barely break even on program/stall sales and wouldnt have anywhere like enough marshalls to plan a 'covid friendly' stall setup and the reduced number of stalls would be costly for the stall holders. That's before taking into account the age of a lot of the drivers and volunteers which might make them reluctant to participate. Some museums have managed to open as they can control the number of people (much like the preserved railways) however even there they're struggling to get enough volunteers.

 

[Robertj21a]

Getting a bit late now for anything to be finalised unless it's pretty well ready to go. Most have, sensibly, abandoned 2020 and are looking forward to a 'normal' 2021.

 

[geoffk]

It should be pointed out that any attempt to offset the cost of operation via donations is also illegal.

Can you quote a source for this? My recollection is that collectors stand in the road; they certainly don't come round the bus. My job involved understanding the 1985 Transport Act and helping my employer, a County Council, implement it but I don't recall any mention of heritage operations and it's all a long time ago now.

 

[richw]

The law doesn't allow fares to be charged and so the bus owner is dependent on donations put into a bucket when people alight.

Donations buckets also fall under hire and reward and are not permitted.

running days and rallies fall under the maximum organised gathering for an event. Currently 30 attendanta I believe. Most owners I know also saying not worth taxing and Moting for what is left of 2020 season

 

[carlberry]

Can you quote a source for this? My recollection is that collectors stand in the road; they certainly don't come round the bus. My job involved understanding the 1985 Transport Act and helping my employer, a County Council, implement it but I don't recall any mention of heritage operations and it's all a long time ago now.

To stick within the law there must be no obvious connection between the journey and a payment. If somebody is collecting for the event or a society then usual charity/collector rules would apply (I don't know what those are), however collecting for the bus itself would fall under hire and reward so most events don't allow that. There is no exemption for heritage operations.

 

[MotCO]

The events I attend tend to have a programme for sale. Presumably these sale proceeds help defray the costs to the owners of running their vehicles, but not in a direct way, thus staying within the law.

 

[carlberry]

The events I attend tend to have a programme for sale. Presumably these sale proceeds help defray the costs to the owners of running their vehicles, but not in a direct way, thus staying within the law.

For the majority of events the programme sales just about cover the fixed costs of putting it on (hire of the location, cost of advertising, public liability insurance etc) so theres not much money left, it's these up front costs that have meant that most events this year got cancelled months in advance because the organisers have to commit to paying them. Some of the bigger events manage to raise enough that some can go towards vehicle costs as the program isnt needed to ride on the buses (as the location is usually open to the public anyway), however it's usually described as a contribution to restoration costs just t make sure.

 

[Busaholic]

The events I attend tend to have a programme for sale. Presumably these sale proceeds help defray the costs to the owners of running their vehicles, but not in a direct way, thus staying within the law.

There can be a straightforward admission charge too when events are held at a private site: this often includes a 'free' programme.but not invariably. Running days much more likely to feature an informative programme/ putative schedule for the day, but no obligation to buy one. Indeed, at events such as the Penzance running day at the beginning of the season programmes can run out quite early on, particularly on a wonderfully warm and sunny day, which it surprisingly often is.

 

[tramboy]

Slightly back on topic, I note that Friends of King Alfred are planning a display (not running event) in conjunction with Heritage Open Days should they go ahead in September - details from their website below:

Heritage Open Days (HODs) is planned to take place in Winchester on its usual dates in September 2020. As part of HODs, we expect to provide a vehicle display at the cattle market car park in Worthy Lane, Winchester on Saturday 19th September 2020 between 10:00 and 16:00. More details in due course.

 

[jp4712]

The National Association of Road Transport Museums (NARTM) took legal advice before publishing its advice on free bus services here and it is very clear that donations shouldn't be solicited in any way - including a bucket on the platform, and I cringe whenever I see a YouTube video showing exactly that. I have used my bus on several free services and I have never - nor would I ever - do such a thing. There was also a case a few years ago where a museum on its own large campus had its terminus in the site - i.e. beyond the paid entry point - and they had to amend this so that people not entering the site could also be carried.

A poster above asked for the legal basis: this is the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981, section 1(5).

 

[Busaholic]

The National Association of Road Transport Museums (NARTM) took legal advice before publishing its advice on free bus services here and it is very clear that donations shouldn't be solicited in any way - including a bucket on the platform, and I cringe whenever I see a YouTube video showing exactly that. I have used my bus on several free services and I have never - nor would I ever - do such a thing. There was also a case a few years ago where a museum on its own large campus had its terminus in the site - i.e. beyond the paid entry point - and they had to amend this so that people not entering the site could also be carried.

A poster above asked for the legal basis: this is the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981, section 1(5).

The London Bus Museum twice yearly (usually!) big events with loads of rides certainly require you to be on site to enjoy them, with the sole exception of the free shuttle bus service to a local station. Same when I went to the East Anglia Transport Museum: there was merely a free shuttlebus (non-historic) to the car park.

 

[carlberry]

The London Bus Museum twice yearly (usually!) big events with loads of rides certainly require you to be on site to enjoy them, with the sole exception of the free shuttle bus service to a local station. Same when I went to the East Anglia Transport Museum: there was merely a free shuttlebus (non-historic) to the car park.

They are now open and are still hopeful that 'Transportfest 2020' will take place in October. They hold an operator's license so can charge for services or offer then as part of the event.

 

[geoffk]

A poster above asked for the legal basis: this is the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981, section 1(5).

Yes, that rings a bell and clearly covers it. I wonder if there is any basis for amending the law provided such heritage operations don't compete directly with registered local bus services. There is a separate thread - "public registered heritage bus routes"; this would be another option but then you are into additional driver licensing, MoT and insurance requirements.

 

[carlberry]

Yes, that rings a bell and clearly covers it. I wonder if there is any basis for amending the law provided such heritage operations don't compete directly with registered local bus services. There is a separate thread - "public registered heritage bus routes"; this would be another option but then you are into additional driver licensing, MoT and insurance requirements.

It would be difficult to get enough backing to make a case for it and it would be very easy to use as a loophole if somebody wanted to.
In effect it would offer a way of operating a route with a none DIPTAC (possibly even class 5 MOT) vehicle, without having to accept free travel passes, possibly without a proper timetable but still charge whatever you want for it.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that any operator would do that!