• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Stock allocation GWR services

Status
Not open for further replies.

Johnnyp88

Member
Joined
6 Sep 2014
Messages
175
Location
Surrey
Looking to travel on 1V94 08:59 Brighton - Great Malvern and then 2O94 14:50 Great Malvern - Weymouth on the 7th June. Was wondering what the booked stock allocation is for these services

Thanks in advance for any assistance
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Looking to travel on 1V94 08:59 Brighton - Great Malvern and then 2O94 14:50 Great Malvern - Weymouth on the 7th June. Was wondering what the booked stock allocation is for these services

Thanks in advance for any assistance

158/9. Anything could happen on the day though.
 

greaterwest

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2014
Messages
1,452
Brighton to Malvern is almost always a 158/9, or occasionally a 158/7 (though it's nowhere near as common as it used to be), and you may even see a 150/2 on the line.

Great Malvern - Weymouth has been a 150/2 every time I've used it, but realtimetrains shows 2O94 pathed as a 158, so you may be lucky.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Brighton to Malvern is almost always a 158/9, or occasionally a 158/7 (though it's nowhere near as common as it used to be), and you may even see a 150/2 on the line.

Great Malvern - Weymouth has been a 150/2 every time I've used it, but realtimetrains shows 2O94 pathed as a 158, so you may be lucky.

Or more than not, an uncomfortable 150/1 substituting. The 3 car versions of these tend to be used to provide 3 Car capacity if 150/9 not available. Anyway, they are booked for a 158/9, 2O94 is pathed as a 158 for that reason. What can happen on the day can be a different matter.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,962
Great Malvern - Weymouth has been a 150/2 every time I've used it, but realtimetrains shows 2O94 pathed as a 158, so you may be lucky.

Out of the two daily complete Great Malvern - Weymouth runs, the earlier one (ex Southampton Central) is booked 150, and the later one (which the OP requested) is booked as a 3-car 158 (ex-Brighton).

158 is very common on the 14:50 GMV, though single 150s have been known to work in times of disruption.

The 12:50 GMV is occasionally 2 x 153 if no 150 available.
 

GlosRail

Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
156
It's the same train on it's return working, so will be a 158/9 in nearly every case. The only time it won't be is if the 8.59 from Brighton has had a problem en route and a 150 has been started from Bristol or somewhere to make up time.

If you wait for another 2 hours for the next one from Great Malvern it will be a 150.
 
Last edited:

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
It's the same train on it's return working, so will be a 158/9 in nearly every case. The only time it won't be is if the 8.59 from Brighton has had a problem en route and a 150 has been started from Bristol or somewhere to make up time.

If you wait for another 2 hours for the next one from Great Malvern it will be a 150.

Or if there was a 150 in lieu of a 158 overnight at Fratton to start the day by going to Brighton.
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,885
If there is a 150 or 2-car 158 at Fratton overnight it does seem to go on to the Brighton diagram rather than a Portsmouth-Cardiff one.
 

Johnnyp88

Member
Joined
6 Sep 2014
Messages
175
Location
Surrey
Thanks all for the info. Have noticed the occasional 158/9 + 150 combo. Hope I get something similar
 

Johnnyp88

Member
Joined
6 Sep 2014
Messages
175
Location
Surrey
I don't think you would see a 158/9 + 150 combo very often. Must have been a rarity when you did see one.

Was a couple of weeks ago when Southern had there strike action I guess to provide extra capacity beyond Chichester
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Was a couple of weeks ago when Southern had there strike action I guess to provide extra capacity beyond Chichester

That's right, but they didn't go to great Malvern. The Brighton turned back at Bristol TM with the 1050 Great Malvern to Brighton the opposite way . The times of the two at Bristol matched up.
 

greaterwest

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2014
Messages
1,452
I don't think you would see a 158/9 + 150 combo very often. Must have been a rarity when you did see one.

I had a 158/7 and 150/2 combo on a Brighton-Malvern a while ago, that was quite interesting.

Was a couple of weeks ago when Southern had there strike action I guess to provide extra capacity beyond Chichester

I'd say beyond Havant to be honest, since no trains were running between Havant or Chichester for the entire day.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,962
If you wait for another 2 hours for the next one from Great Malvern it will be a 150.

Indeed and today, newly refreshed, green painted 150232 was on it and was terminated early at Bath due to a train fault!
 
Joined
2 Jun 2016
Messages
8
Anyone have a list of GwR unit diagrammed workings.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Anyone have a list of GwR unit diagrammed workings.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.

This is the sort of question that is often posted on the Forum but doesn't get a reply. The only people who know are people employed in the industry and those who do are generally bound by confidentially. You might get an answer to odd diagram queries but not for a full set. There are examples of selected diagrams posted on the "Frequently Requested Diagrams" thread, such as any LHCS but these are in a minority. That's life I'm afraid. I notice you are a Newbie, so welcome to the Forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Since the start of the May Timetable the 158/9 on the Cardiff to Taunton circuit has been withdrawn and replaced by a 150. GWR have stated on Twitter in replies that a decision had to be made re reducing the 1600 Cardiff to Taunton (the 3 Car reason train) to 2 carriages. I presume this is because there could be a 158/9 out of service for a long time, 158956 at the moment, for re-furbishment to meet the new DDA requirements. However, a 158/9 seems to be available and has to be utilized on a variety of 2 Car Diagrams.
 
Last edited:

windnoise69

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2011
Messages
421
Location
Bristol
This is the sort of question that is often posted on the Forum but doesn't get a reply. The only people who know are people employed in the industry and those who do are generally bound by confidentially. You might get an answer to odd diagram queries but not for a full set. There are examples of selected diagrams posted on the "Frequently Requested Diagrams" thread, such as any LHCS but these are in a minority. That's life I'm afraid. I notice you are a Newbie, so welcome to the Forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Since the start of the May Timetable the 158/9 on the Cardiff to Taunton circuit has been withdrawn and replaced by a 150. GWR have stated on Twitter in replies that a decision had to be made re reducing the 1600 Cardiff to Taunton (the 3 Car reason train) to 2 carriages. I presume this is because there could be a 158/9 out of service for a long time, 158956 at the moment, for re-furbishment to meet the new DDA requirements. However, a 158/9 seems to be available and has to be utilized on a variety of 2 Car Diagrams.

It hasn't been booked a 158/9 since last December. December - May it has been booked 150+153 but as you say, 158/9 are a common substitute
 

FGW_DID

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,743
Location
81E
Anyone have a list of GwR unit diagrammed workings.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.

Are you after any particular working or units? As stated above you've more chance of an answer then asking for the full set of diagrams which run to many pages for all London & Thames Valley / West units!
 

David Goddard

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Reading
Here's one to be sure of:

All trains to Marlow are formed of two car Class 165s (ie 165118-137) LOL :)
 

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,871
Location
Gloucester
This is the sort of question that is often posted on the Forum but doesn't get a reply. The only people who know are people employed in the industry and those who do are generally bound by confidentially. You might get an answer to odd diagram queries but not for a full set. There are examples of selected diagrams posted on the "Frequently Requested Diagrams" thread, such as any LHCS but these are in a minority. That's life I'm afraid. I notice you are a Newbie, so welcome to the Forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Since the start of the May Timetable the 158/9 on the Cardiff to Taunton circuit has been withdrawn and replaced by a 150. GWR have stated on Twitter in replies that a decision had to be made re reducing the 1600 Cardiff to Taunton (the 3 Car reason train) to 2 carriages. I presume this is because there could be a 158/9 out of service for a long time, 158956 at the moment, for re-furbishment to meet the new DDA requirements. However, a 158/9 seems to be available and has to be utilized on a variety of 2 Car Diagrams.

I've noticed for a long time now that the 158 on the 1100/1600/2100 from Cardiff has been a 150+153. Not a problem however reducing it from 3 to 2 cars is a bad move particularly as the 1600 is full and standing from Temple Meads (dep 1655ish).
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,464
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Since October last year, the stopping trains on the North Downs line have been downgraded to standard class only, but almost always still use class 166s. GWR's near-complete lack of information on the change means that they are often very full but with almost empty first class sections. Even a guard didn't know of the change late last year when he actually evicted some schoolboys to standard!
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,373
Since October last year, the stopping trains on the North Downs line have been downgraded to standard class only, but almost always still use class 166s. GWR's near-complete lack of information on the change means that they are often very full but with almost empty first class sections. Even a guard didn't know of the change late last year when he actually evicted some schoolboys to standard!

I should hope so too! The removal on the [1] in the heading of a timetable does not automatically declassify first class, so unless these schoolboys had first class tickets it's only correct they were "evicted". The only right that the [1] enshrines the passenger with is an entitlement to compensation if first class is NOT provided on a service advertised to convey first class accommodation. I've no idea where the membership of this forum appears to have gotten its deluded impression that it becomes their right to sit in first class if such a facility isn't advertised, as I've never seen any documentation at a company or national level that even remotely suggests that is the case. Declassifying of first class lies SOLELY at the discretion of the guard. End of.

Due to the nature of the service, and particularly service recovery, it's easier if all N Downs diagrams are covered by 166s - and indeed many days you do only get 166s allocated to work there. Changing the class 2s to advertised as standard only gives the TSC options to put out a 3 car 165 on a 166 diagram if there is a shortage of 166s on the TCD, without fear of costing GWR a lot of money in compensation for non-provision of First Class accommodation.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,452
Location
West of Andover
I should hope so too! The removal on the [1] in the heading of a timetable does not automatically declassify first class, so unless these schoolboys had first class tickets it's only correct they were "evicted". The only right that the [1] enshrines the passenger with is an entitlement to compensation if first class is NOT provided on a service advertised to convey first class accommodation. I've no idea where the membership of this forum appears to have gotten its deluded impression that it becomes their right to sit in first class if such a facility isn't advertised, as I've never seen any documentation at a company or national level that even remotely suggests that is the case. Declassifying of first class lies SOLELY at the discretion of the guard. End of.

Due to the nature of the service, and particularly service recovery, it's easier if all N Downs diagrams are covered by 166s - and indeed many days you do only get 166s allocated to work there. Changing the class 2s to advertised as standard only gives the TSC options to put out a 3 car 165 on a 166 diagram if there is a shortage of 166s on the TCD, without fear of costing GWR a lot of money in compensation for non-provision of First Class accommodation.

So on those grounds when a 166 tips up during the week on a Reading - Basingstoke service in lieu of the absent 150/0 is it automatically first class unless the guard announces that it's declassified?
 

FGW_DID

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,743
Location
81E
The vast majority of N.Downs diagrams are 166. There is the odd one that is for 165 but that's mainly just to Redhill, anything that goes to Gatwick Apt is a 166.

Mainly to do with the luggage areas and the fact a 166 has two toilets.

To diagram a 165 on these, we have to be in dire straits, it's not worth the grief we get from above! Thames Valley 166 diagrams will be covered by 165s before we think about touching the North Downs (and the North Cotswolds!)
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,495
Location
UK
So on those grounds when a 166 tips up during the week on a Reading - Basingstoke service in lieu of the absent 150/0 is it automatically first class unless the guard announces that it's declassified?

Or the booked workings on the Thames Valley stoppers, if first isn't advertised anyone should be able to sit in 1st (there is no guard to announce the declassification)
 

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
I should hope so too! The removal on the [1] in the heading of a timetable does not automatically declassify first class, so unless these schoolboys had first class tickets it's only correct they were "evicted". The only right that the [1] enshrines the passenger with is an entitlement to compensation if first class is NOT provided on a service advertised to convey first class accommodation. I've no idea where the membership of this forum appears to have gotten its deluded impression that it becomes their right to sit in first class if such a facility isn't advertised, as I've never seen any documentation at a company or national level that even remotely suggests that is the case. Declassifying of first class lies SOLELY at the discretion of the guard. End of.

Due to the nature of the service, and particularly service recovery, it's easier if all N Downs diagrams are covered by 166s - and indeed many days you do only get 166s allocated to work there. Changing the class 2s to advertised as standard only gives the TSC options to put out a 3 car 165 on a 166 diagram if there is a shortage of 166s on the TCD, without fear of costing GWR a lot of money in compensation for non-provision of First Class accommodation.

Your source for this is??
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,373
So on those grounds when a 166 tips up during the week on a Reading - Basingstoke service in lieu of the absent 150/0 is it automatically first class unless the guard announces that it's declassified?

On the basis that there is no documentary evidence to suggest the contrary is true, I can only suggest that yes, First Class fares apply, and indeed are available.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your source for this is??

CoC G 39 covers the scenarios in which standard class ticket holders may travel in First Class. Whether the train is, or is not advertised to convey first class is not one of them.

---

Regardless, we've strayed way off topic - for which I apologise.

As others have said, confidentiality rules prevent sharing of the full list of diagrams for GWR, but the odd working here and there is fine.
 
Last edited:

otter11

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2016
Messages
93
CoC G 39 covers the scenarios in which standard class ticket holders may travel in First Class. Whether the train is, or is not advertised to convey first class is not one of them.

A few years ago some SWT 158s were used by Great Western on the route from Bath to Westbury, complete with first class sections. There are NO GWR services on this route which ever carry first class accommodation - thus it was fairly obvious to passengers that this first class was declassified.

How do the rules, as stated by you, apply in this case? If first class is never available on a route surely this would mean that it would be automatically declassified?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top