• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Storm Frank: impact on West Coast and Highland Mainlines

Status
Not open for further replies.

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,397
First Up train over Lamington on Monday is supposed to be the 08:12 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport service. Down services to operate as scheduled from start of service. The early services are buses mainly because I reckon stock won't be in place.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,040
Location
Mold, Clwyd
05.50 off Glasgow will be the first VT service.
04.28, 05.40 & 06.30 services all starting from Carlisle.

According to RTT, the northbound Highland Sleeper appears to be the first train over the bridge soon after 0300.
There are some early ECS 390s from Preston and Oxley to Glasgow to form southbound passenger services later.
 

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
1,013
First move over the bridge was test trains ran today to check all was ok.
 

LeylandLen

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2013
Messages
779
Location
Leyland Lancs
Looks like their are 2 freight trains, 1 n/b, 1 s/b due along the line today , presume to test and try out the line ..One is 1604 Coatbridge to Daventry for Sainsburys .
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,040
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Do we know if there are going to be speed restrictions over the bridge?
According to the Sectional Appendix (2009), the previous speed limit was 100/110EPS/120EPS (110=Voyager, 120=Pendolino).
It would be understandable if there was a lower limit for a time.
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,397
Do we know if there are going to be speed restrictions over the bridge?
According to the Sectional Appendix (2009), the previous speed limit was 100/110EPS/120EPS (110=Voyager, 120=Pendolino).
It would be understandable if there was a lower limit for a time.

From the information I have yes there will be a speed restriction on the viaduct initially. The speed will be raised in stages to the full permissable speeds.
 

QueensCurve

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2014
Messages
1,975
Network Rail Scotland Tweeted:-

#Lamington another shot of work on the viaduct today - all looking good for reopening on Monday...

CbgUe9AW8AEDq-_.jpg


And:-

#Lamington we've successfully run a test train over the viaduct ahead of tommorrow's reopening

CbuysbCWEAA2bKJ.jpg
 

Chrism20

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
1,351
Do we know if there are going to be speed restrictions over the bridge?
According to the Sectional Appendix (2009), the previous speed limit was 100/110EPS/120EPS (110=Voyager, 120=Pendolino).
It would be understandable if there was a lower limit for a time.

Virgins website mentions that trains will be running over the viaduct at a reduced speed when they resume a full service tomorrow.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,773
Presumably there will be extra monitoring of the bridge in place for a while? Initially to gauge whether or not to raise the restrictions.
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,383
All this proves is that the decision back in the 1970's not to electrify the Kilmarnock line at the same time as the WCML was wrong.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,891
All this proves is that the decision back in the 1970's not to electrify the Kilmarnock line at the same time as the WCML was wrong.

The G&SW was lucky to survive after electrification (at least south of Kilmarnock), let alone be electrified. And remember, the WCML was not electrified in one fell swoop - BR had to overcome many hurdles to get the go-ahead for the extension north of Weaver Jcn.

And there were many more worthy and obvious additional routes for electrification before the G&SW - most especially Manchester - Blackpool. That was in 1973, and it is being completed when?
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,383
The G&SW was lucky to survive after electrification (at least south of Kilmarnock), let alone be electrified. And remember, the WCML was not electrified in one fell swoop - BR had to overcome many hurdles to get the go-ahead for the extension north of Weaver Jcn.

And there were many more worthy and obvious additional routes for electrification before the G&SW - most especially Manchester - Blackpool. That was in 1973, and it is being completed when?

Fair comment, but BR did actually announce, some time in the late 1970s that that G&SW was going to be electrified. I can remember reading it in "Modern Railways".......the plan was to take freight off the WCML to allow acceleration north of Carlisle.

Of course wags suggested in response that the followup should be electrification of the S&C via Clitheroe and Blackburn to Preston, giving four electric tracks north of Preston to Glasgow........but there was never much chance of that!
But as I understood it, the G&SW was a real, planned project which got pulled
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,040
Location
Mold, Clwyd
All seems to be going well at Lamington this morning, according to RTT.
Trains seem to be losing about 5 minutes between Carstairs and Beattock Summit, no doubt because of speed restrictions.
But good to have it back.
We done the tartan orange army.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
8,111
Location
Leeds
All this proves is that the decision back in the 1970's not to electrify the Kilmarnock line at the same time as the WCML was wrong.

I don't think it proves anything of the sort. If money had been available for extra electrification in the 1970s, it would have been better to spend it on Manchester and Liverpool to Preston, which were originally part of the WCML North project but were cut from it.

Edit: and when money did become available in Scotland it was right to spend it on Carstairs-Edinburgh rather than the GSW.
 
Last edited:

aylesbury

Member
Joined
3 Feb 2012
Messages
622
Good news looking forward to my journey on Friday NR are to be congratulated on their work.If any line should be wired it should be Carlisle to Newcastle this would provide real diversions and also some new journey possibilities.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,891
Presumably there will be extra monitoring of the bridge in place for a while? Initially to gauge whether or not to raise the restrictions.

Well, put it this way, if i were the engineer in charge of signing the job off, I certainly would not run a Class 66? successfully over it on the Saturday and say: right lads, where's the pub?

I would imagine there will be something like:

a) speed restriction of, maybe 50 mph for the first day, rising incrementally in 10 or 20 mph stages if things proceed without hitch over a number of days to regular line speed

b) very, very careful monitoring of the structure for the first few days, easing once trains (including freight) have reached line speed - again, assuming nothing untoward has been observed.

c) extra monitoring for the first month, maybe two months to check any excessive movements or unexpected stress levels - and a return to extra checking if and when water levels surge due to increased rain.

For whoever is in charge, failure to spot any fault with the repaired bridge would be an awful black mark on the career. If it led to a catastrophic failure and loss of life or injury, I should imagine it could lead to criminal proceedings and prison. So I reckon that person will be pretty careful.
 

quarella

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2009
Messages
818
Good news looking forward to my journey on Friday NR are to be congratulated on their work..

NR are indeed to be congratulated but I think appreciation should also be shown to to the coach operators and drivers for their initial rapid response and subsequently sometimes in atrocious driving conditions.
 

Zoidberg

Established Member
Joined
27 Aug 2010
Messages
1,270
Location
West Midlands
The RAIB has published an update on the Lamington incident of 31st December.

It's at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dangerous-occurrence-at-lamington-viaduct

I am unsure what is the new information but the extract below seems relevant (a bit long to quote the whole thing)

On the morning of Thursday 31st December 2015, several trains passed over Lamington Viaduct after the ground beneath a viaduct pier had been eroded by river scour. The viaduct carries the railway, running between Carstairs and Lockerbie, across the River Clyde. This is a two-track section of the West Coast Main Line between Glasgow and London where passenger trains are permitted to travel at up to 120 mph (193 km/h). Although there were no injuries or damage to trains, the viaduct was seriously damaged, and the main line remained closed for seven weeks while the structure was stabilised and repaired.

...

Evidence found to date suggests that the sweeping dips in the track were caused by deck movement related to the subsidence of pier 2, which probably occurred under the last northbound train at 08:40 hrs. The related scour damage may have been undiscovered since the river level peaked the previous day.
 
Last edited:

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,003
I am unsure what is the new information but the extract below seems relevant (a bit long to quote the whole thing)

I think this is the crucial sentence.

Evidence found to date suggests that the sweeping dips in the track were caused by deck movement related to the subsidence of pier 2, which probably occurred under the last northbound train at 08:40 hrs.

The original update suggested RAIB were looking to see if the sweeping dips in the track were present when the maintenance staff arrived on site and went undetected until the passage of the train at 08:40hrs, the new update suggests RAIB has found the sweeping dips weren't present initially and were in fact caused by the train passing, which caused further damage to the bridge.

It will be interesting to learn, if it's possible to know, whether the train passing at 08:40hrs was also responsible for the missing masonry and crack in the viaduct pier, i.e the structure had been weakened by the scouring, but no visible signs were present until the 08:40hrs service passed.

In some ways, I can't help but think the series of events are fortunate and may have prevented a more serious incident, particularly if the weakened nature of the piers was disguised by otherwise undamaged masonry. It would have been all too easy to leave the viaduct open to trains with a TSR in place, which could have led to a more catastrophic failure, given it was many hours after the closure before divers could undertake survey work.
 

Zoidberg

Established Member
Joined
27 Aug 2010
Messages
1,270
Location
West Midlands
I think this is the crucial sentence.



The original update suggested RAIB were looking to see if the sweeping dips in the track were present when the maintenance staff arrived on site and went undetected until the passage of the train at 08:40hrs, the new update suggests RAIB has found the sweeping dips weren't present initially and were in fact caused by the train passing, which caused further damage to the bridge.

It will be interesting to learn, if it's possible to know, whether the train passing at 08:40hrs was also responsible for the missing masonry and crack in the viaduct pier, i.e the structure had been weakened by the scouring, but no visible signs were present until the 08:40hrs service passed.

In some ways, I can't help but think the series of events are fortunate and may have prevented a more serious incident, particularly if the weakened nature of the piers was disguised by otherwise undamaged masonry. It would have been all too easy to leave the viaduct open to trains with a TSR in place, which could have led to a more catastrophic failure, given it was many hours after the closure before divers could undertake survey work.

In bold, yes, of course, a significant finding.

And as to the rest of your post, I agree.
 

Zoidberg

Established Member
Joined
27 Aug 2010
Messages
1,270
Location
West Midlands
For those interested, the RAIB report covering the closure of the Lamington viaduct in December 2015 may be found via this link:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...fe00001e/R222016_161114_Lamington_viaduct.pdf

Summary:

At 08:40 hrs on Thursday 31 December 2015, subsidence of Lamington viaduct resulted in serious deformation of the track as the 05:57 hrs Crewe to Glasgow passenger service passed over at a speed of about 110 mph (177 km/h). The viaduct spans the River Clyde between Lockerbie and Carstairs. Subsequent investigation showed that the viaduct’s central river pier had been partially undermined by scour following high river flow the previous day. The line was closed for over seven weeks until Monday 22 February 2016 while emergency stabilisation works were completed.

The driver of an earlier train had reported a track defect on the viaduct at 07:28 hrs on the same morning, and following trains crossed the viaduct at low speed while a Network Rail track maintenance team was deployed to the site. The team found no significant track defects and normal running was resumed with the 05:57 hrs service being the first train to pass on the down line. Immediately after this occurred at 08:40 hrs, large track movements were noticed by the team, who immediately imposed an emergency speed restriction before closing the line after finding that the central pier was damaged.

The viaduct spans a river bend which causes water to wash against the sides of the piers. It was also known to have shallow foundations. These were among the factors that resulted in it being identified as being at high risk of scour in 2005. A scheme to provide permanent scour protection to the piers and abutments was due to be constructed during 2015, but this project was deferred until mid-2016 because a necessary environmental approval had not been obtained.

To mitigate the risk of scour, the viaduct was included on a list of vulnerable bridges for which special precautions were required during flood conditions. These precautions included monitoring of river levels and closing the line if a pre-determined water level was exceeded. However, this process was no longer in use and there was no effective scour risk mitigation for over 100 of the most vulnerable structures across Scotland. This had occurred, in part, because organisational changes within Network Rail had led to the loss of knowledge and ownership of some structures issues.

Although unrelated to the incident, the RAIB found that defects in the central river pier had not been fully addressed by planned maintenance work. There was also no datum level marked on the structure which meant that survey information from different sources could not easily be compared to identify change.

The RAIB has made three recommendations to Network Rail covering the management of scour risk, the response to defect reports affecting structures over water, and the management of control centre procedures. The report also contains f ive learning points related to effective management of scour risk.
 

PaxVobiscum

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
2,404
Location
Glasgow
Network rail has linked a video about the Lamington repairs on its Scottish Twitter account today:

Watch the full story of the recovery of #Lamington viaduct here *******/2kKTdxy

Interesting - I can't get my quote to accept the text bit(dot)ly
The six characters keep being replaced with seven asterisks (???)

Anyway, the link is https://vimeo.com/190892839 (04:57) so ***** you, forum software :lol:
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
20,659
Location
West of Andover
Network rail has linked a video about the Lamington repairs on its Scottish Twitter account today:



Interesting - I can't get my quote to accept the text bit(dot)ly
The six characters keep being replaced with seven asterisks (???)

Anyway, the link is https://vimeo.com/190892839 (04:57) so ***** you, forum software :lol:

I believe it is a security feature due to the potential of dodgy links hidden behind those shortened URLs
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top