Storm Jocelyn to cause disruption on Tuesday 23 January and Wednesday 24 January

[JonathanH]

Is there a new thread for storm joceyln? Scotrail announcing closures on social media for 23/24 January

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid033ouU6VYRqPHb687nyRQnxhGtTwfTKKa1QWzgydL4QufJS4e5nXAAxhVbQUfni3P8l&id=100064323386475

Railway in Scotland closed from 7pm on Tuesday 23 January with knock on implications for the following day.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/major-disruption-due-extreme-weather

Major disruption due to extreme weather

Updated: 1700, 22 January 2023

Storm Jocelyn

Another storm, Storm Joceyln, is on the way. Once again, all ScotRail services will be suspended from 19.00 on Tuesday night (23 January) and there will be no rush hour services on Wednesday morning, as high winds and heavy rain batter the country once again.

Network Rail has taken the decision to close the railway to passenger services while the worst of the weather hits in order to keep customers and staff safe.

Trains departing before 19:00 will run to their destination but may be delayed by speed restrictions. On Wednesday, all routes will need to be checked for damage in daylight before trains resume.

As with Storm Isha over the weekend, strong winds of up to 70/80 mph are expected. This could lead to trees and other debris falling onto the tracks, trapping trains and putting people in danger.

Line closures will continue into Wednesday. Each route will have to undergo a safety inspection, which means it will be later on in the day before any trains can run.

Customers whose journey has been cancelled or disrupted due to adverse weather can travel two days after the date on their ticket, or they can apply for a fee-free refund at scotrail.co.uk/refund.

It’s vital that customers check their journey before travelling.

 

[Megafuss]

No doubt Scotrail will be accused of "throwing in the towel"

 

[leightonbd]

Scotrail have also (having started most services earlier today) withdrawn a number of this evening’s services. A stop-start-stop day but with less obvious publicity re this evening (Monday, 22nd) and the implications for tomorrow morning, 23rd. Before the wind down at 7pm tomorrow for Jocelyn.

 

[Merseysider]

Can the storms just bugger off at this point?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can the storms just bugger off at this point?

Good point, well made. Not sure whether the seemingly endless conveyor belt of storms just now are quite as bad as ones experienced in the past, or whether perhaps they are just more frequent / more accurately forecast?

 

[driverd]

Poor effort off Scotrail as per - rest of the UK cracks on with the sensible measure of blanket ESRs, Scotrail just give up.

I appreciate all the arguments about stranded passengers, but arguably the majority of people who need to travel will still travel anyway, just using alternative means - making it harder to get a taxi or seat on a bus.

A more measured approach would be blanket ESRs and standby coaches just incase (and, indeed what we did at one of my former TOCs when either heavy loadings or significant disruption was expected).

 

[John Luxton]

Good point, well made. Not sure whether the seemingly endless conveyor belt of storms just now are quite as bad as ones experienced in the past, or whether perhaps they are just more frequent / more accurately forecast?

Last storm season there was only one and that was August.

Previous season we had a conveyor belt there was one weekend in February 2022 when we had three storms one after the other over a weekend - Dudley, Eunice and Franklyn.

I think in this more safety conscious age there is more of a tendency to give a bit of a gale a name whereas in the past a bit of a blow would have been reported on and then forgotten except for major ones such as the "Michael Fish" gale in October 1987.

Plus of course naming them and giving out more warnings than happed in the past also suits a certain topical agenda.

 

[68000]

Poor effort off Scotrail as per - rest of the UK cracks on with the sensible measure of blanket ESRs, Scotrail just give up.

I appreciate all the arguments about stranded passengers, but arguably the majority of people who need to travel will still travel anyway, just using alternative means - making it harder to get a taxi or seat on a bus.

A more measured approach would be blanket ESRs and standby coaches just incase (and, indeed what we did at one of my former TOCs when either heavy loadings or significant disruption was expected).

The decision was made by Network Rail, not ScotRail

Last storm season there was only one and that was August.

Previous season we had a conveyor belt there was one weekend in February 2022 when we had three storms one after the other over a weekend - Dudley, Eunice and Franklyn.

I think in this more safety conscious age there is more of a tendency to give a bit of a gale a name whereas in the past a bit of a blow would have been reported on and then forgotten except for major ones such as the "Michael Fish" gale in October 1987.

Plus of course naming them and giving out more warnings than happed in the past also suits a certain topical agenda.

Weather system naming in Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jon0844]

Can the storms just bugger off at this point?

We'll be up to storm Zoe* by this time next week at this rate.

* I haven't bothered to look up what the storm actually is called, and I bet nobody thought we'd be up to the letter J so soon!

 

[driverd]

The decision was made by Network Rail, not Scotrail

Purely? Or a joint decision?

 

[sheff1]

Previous season we had a conveyor belt there was one weekend in February 2022 when we had three storms one after the other over a weekend - Dudley, Eunice and Franklyn.

I think in this more safety conscious age there is more of a tendency to give a bit of a gale a name whereas in the past a bit of a blow would have been reported on and then forgotten except for major ones such as the "Michael Fish" gale in October 1987.

Plus of course naming them and giving out more warnings than happed in the past also suits a certain topical agenda.

Exactly this. In the past a few days of stormy weather would be considered one period of, not unexpected, seasonal weather. There certainly wouldn't have been any naming ceremony, never mind mutiple namings. As well as suiting the topical agenda, giving out names provides perceived justification for doing things which would otherwise be challenged - 'it must be really bad, it is a named storm'.

 

[aaronspence]

There are either far more storms, or the rail companies are being extra cautious. I cannot remember this many 'No trains after X' years ago. You atleast gave it a go.

 

[The Puddock]

There are two factors combining to make these planned shut downs of the Scottish network far more frequent than previously. Firstly Network Rail Scotland has become significantly more risk averse after the Carmont accident - one of the criticisms in the final RAIB report was the general forecasting and response to the storm on the night of 11th August 2020, and the perfunctory approach to the EWAT (emergency weather action teleconference) process. The subsequent Weather Advisory Task Force report concluded that Network Rail wasn't taking the impact of weather and climate change on the infrastructure seriously enough and recommended big changes to how the railway should operate in poor weather. The introduction of dedicated meterologists on duty 24/7 in NR Scotland Control, with access to live observations and forecasts means that the rail industry in Scotland is monitoring the weather more closely than ever before and EWATs are held far, far more frequently than they were before Carmont. Just as an aside, the daily weather readiness status in NR Scotland has been at the highest 'extreme' level for either wind, rain or low temperatures continuously for about four weeks now. There have been three planned partial or whole network shut downs in Scotland because of the weather since October 2023; by way of a comparison I can only remember two weather shut downs in Scotland between 2000 and 2020.

The second factor in this is that the UK Met Office seems - to me at least - to also be developing a more risk averse strategy to weather warnings and winter low pressure systems. I think this is a symptom of a wider societal change, as general tolerance of risk across the entire sphere of public life has reduced over the last few decades.

 

[John Luxton]

Exactly this. In the past a few days of stormy weather would be considered one period of, not unexpected, seasonal weather. There certainly wouldn't have been any naming ceremony, never mind mutiple namings. As well as suiting the topical agenda, giving out names provides perceived justification for doing things which would otherwise be challenged - 'it must be really bad, it is a named storm'.

It also feeds the fear agenda - just look at how the words used by the tabloid papers and their websites describe an incoming storm. Everything now seems to have to be reported with a good bit of fear thrown in. One of the worst outlets are the various news rags and web sites operated by Reach plc.

There seems to be a desire to keep people in a permanent sense of fear over so many topics plus it provides click bait on social media channels.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

There are many more opportunities for foreign objects to be blown onto the railway these days. 30/40 years ago there weren't so many trees close to the lineside, far less OLE to be damaged by the wind. Also, the growth of towns and villages has meant far more housing and businesses are close to the railway with all the hazards of wind blown items such as trampolines and other garden playground equipment, or garden shed roofs to cause blockages.

 

[brad465]

Can the storms just bugger off at this point?

Or we could pass anti-storm legislation ordering weather to allow a minimum level of service to operate across the country.

*runs for cover*

 

[Trainguy34]

We'll be up to storm Zoe* by this time next week at this rate.

* I haven't bothered to look up what the storm actually is called, and I bet nobody thought we'd be up to the letter J so soon!

From a look at the met office, it looks like we don't have Q, U, X, Y or Z as they are for US Hurricane naming conventions. List of unallocated names are: Kathleen, Lilian, Minnie, Nicholas, Olga, Piet, Regina, Tamiko, Stuart, Vincent and Walid.

Looks like, when/if Kathleen is allocated, we will be halfway through the list!

 

[800001]

Poor effort off Scotrail as per - rest of the UK cracks on with the sensible measure of blanket ESRs, Scotrail just give up.

I appreciate all the arguments about stranded passengers, but arguably the majority of people who need to travel will still travel anyway, just using alternative means - making it harder to get a taxi or seat on a bus.

A more measured approach would be blanket ESRs and standby coaches just incase (and, indeed what we did at one of my former TOCs when either heavy loadings or significant disruption was expected).

If you follow Scotrail on twitter, or some of the NWR MOMs in Scotland, you would see the multitude of blockages on the line caused by the storm, Trees, sheds, a greenhouse and many more objects.
A ESR would not stop a train hitting one of those? So you suggest letting trains run on the lines instead with an ESR? Instead of the steady shut down of services last night?
How would an ESR of helped at Glasgow Queen street where a wall was in danger of collapsing onto the lines?

It’s all well and good for people who don’t have to make these safety decisions to sit here and criticise, and yes, on certain lines Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But last night I thing they actually made a very sensible decision to do what they did.

 

[Sealink]

Weather is weather but some of the communication is really poor.

ScotRail say that the network will be closed from 1900hrs, but trains that started their journey before that will continue to run.

I am booked on 1200 KGX INV which now terminates in Edinburgh. There are no ScotRail services to Inverness after 4pm.

I have found a 1000 KGX to Dundee, with a connection to Inverness, but no one will confirm ticket acceptance. All a bit frustrating.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Purely? Or a joint decision?

Well giving Alex Hynes leads both entities it really ought to be quoted as a joint decision

 

[The Puddock]

I have found a 1000 KGX to DND, with a connection to Inverness, but no one will confirm ticket acceptance. All a bit frustrating.

DND is Dinsdale, so I take it you mean DEE - in any case would it not be easier just to type Dundee?

 

[800001]

Weather is weather but some of the communication is really poor.

ScotRail say that the network will be closed from 1900hrs, but trains that started their journey before that will continue to run.

I am booked on 1200 KGX INV which now terminates in Edinburgh. There are no ScotRail services to Inverness after 4pm.

I have found a 1000 KGX to DND, with a connection to Inverness, but no one will confirm ticket acceptance. All a bit frustrating.

Baring in mind LNER are advising Do not travel north of Newcastle from 1500, I can’t see why they would arrange ticket acceptance, as that encourages people to travel!
The do not travel message is there for a reason! For your safety!

 

[JonathanH]

I am booked on 1200 KGX INV which now terminates in Edinburgh. There are no ScotRail services to Inverness after 4pm.

Still coaches available from Edinburgh to Inverness with later departure times (1800, 1955) but you would be taking a small punt on being able to reach Edinburgh on time.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The do not travel message is there for a reason! For your safety!

Perhaps it is this time, but you and I both know it’s been used far more often than it should be over the past couple of years. Especially by Northern.

And the main reason is usually so they can dodge paying delay repay.

 

[800001]

Perhaps it is this time, but you and I both know it’s been used far more often than it should be over the past couple of years. Especially by Northern.

And the main reason is usually so they can dodge paying delay repay.

But we are not on about previous times, we are on about this storm event.

And pictures on the news and twitter show how much impact yesterday’s storm had.

People should take note and follow the advice do not travel.

If they travel and there train is stranded for hours due to the storm, they will be the first to criticise the train company!

 

[Walter Whigham]

If you follow Scotrail on twitter, or some of the NWR MOMs in Scotland, you would see the multitude of blockages on the line caused by the storm, Trees, sheds, a greenhouse and many more objects.
A ESR would not stop a train hitting one of those? So you suggest letting trains run on the lines instead with an ESR? Instead of the steady shut down of services last night?
How would an ESR of helped at Glasgow Queen street where a wall was in danger of collapsing onto the lines?

It’s all well and good for people who don’t have to make these safety decisions to sit here and criticise, and yes, on certain lines Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But last night I thing they actually made a very sensible decision to do what they did.

Well said!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But we are not on about previous times, we are on about this storm event.

And pictures on the news and twitter show how much impact yesterday’s storm had.

People should take note and follow the advice do not travel.

If they travel and there train is stranded for hours due to the storm, they will be the first to criticise the train company!

The previous times are highly relevant, You are expecting people to heed a message which is supposedly for drastic action only, but unfortunately due to crying wolf it’s natural that some won’t believe the urgency of such a message anymore.

 

[800001]

The previous times are highly relevant, You are expecting people to heed a message which is supposedly for drastic action only, but unfortunately due to crying wolf it’s natural that some won’t believe the urgency of such a message anymore.

Do these people not watch the news? Read papers? Twitter or socials? About yesterday?

Take your point about previous weather events, but people really should be taking notice this week!

 

[InOban]

Weather is weather but some of the communication is really poor.

ScotRail say that the network will be closed from 1900hrs, but trains that started their journey before that will continue to run.

I am booked on 1200 KGX INV which now terminates in Edinburgh. There are no ScotRail services to Inverness after 4pm.

I have found a 1000 KGX to DND, with a connection to Inverness, but no one will confirm ticket acceptance. All a bit frustrating.

Scotrail are advising that the last train from Edinburgh to Inverness will be at 1329

 

[68000]

Purely? Or a joint decision?

Network Rail tell the train operators that the infrastructure is not safe until the storm passes and the lines are checked