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Stranraer

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102 fan

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Hi

Does anybody know whats happening to Stranraer Harbour station when Stena go to Cairnryan? Also, what will any intending sail-rail (a diminishing breed!) passengers do?

Thanks
 
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rail-britain

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No change, simply the opportunity for a bus company to operate a direct link (the hint is for Stagecoach West Scotland)

This makes Troon a more attractive travelling location for cars and foot passengers from the Glasgow area
 

TUC

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Hi

Does anybody know whats happening to Stranraer Harbour station when Stena go to Cairnryan? Also, what will any intending sail-rail (a diminishing breed!) passengers do?

Thanks
I'm not sure if Sail/Rail passengers are a diminishing breed. When I travelled via Stranraer the other week there were a good 20/25 passengers making the transfer.
 

rail-britain

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I'm not sure if Sail/Rail passengers are a diminishing breed. When I travelled via Stranraer the other week there were a good 20/25 passengers making the transfer.
The number of foot passengers can vary quite extremely
Between 10 and 30 is normal number (staying in local hotels prior or after journey, bus connections, etc)
However, I have seen it as high as over 100
This resulted in the car deck being reduced in capacity, so as not to exceed the total number of passengers
Equally, I agree the number of passengers with a combined rail ticket must be a fraction of what it was and continues to diminish
 

Flying Snail

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I travelled on that route earlier this summer and the foot passenger numbers on both trips were well into the 100s, obviously not all were also rail passengers but a good many were. The 156 from Glasgow to connect with the afternoon HSS was very well loaded with few seats free and most passengers stayed on to Stranraer.

Outside the summer holiday season I would say it tails off heavily, the Holyhead route which I am more familiar with is certainly that way, once the schools are back the numbers are 50-70% down.

I have heard nothing concrete about how non-motorists will be catered for once Stena move although it is worth noting that at present there is no co-ordinated connections at either Cairnryan or Troon for P&O sailings which do carry foot passengers but seem un-interested in providing through journeys. It is of course possible to walk between the port and station at Troon.

It would be madness to provide a bus link from the new Stena terminal to Stranraer, far more sensible (and a hell of a lot quicker) would be a bus link to Girvan or Ayr rail stations. It may also be the case that Stagecoach see a market in providing a through coach service or a direct connection with their X77 Ayr-Glasgow express service which by UK bus standards is very good.
 

rail-britain

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It would be madness to provide a bus link from the new Stena terminal to Stranraer, far more sensible (and a hell of a lot quicker) would be a bus link to Girvan or Ayr rail stations. It may also be the case that Stagecoach see a market in providing a through coach service or a direct connection with their X77 Ayr-Glasgow express service which by UK bus standards is very good
TS have been in discussion with First Group, Stagecoach and P&O, to operate the bus service
First Group were reluctant, as they don't have any local operator there
Stagecoach advised they could divert their existing 60/358 and 60/360 services which feed into the X77
At one service every two hours it is unlikely to match ferry times
However Stagecoach did advise they would either ensure the bus times are more appropriate or add some additional dedicated services from the local surplus in their fleet
P&O were also consulted to provide a subsidy, to which they have agreed in principle providing at least 80% of the fleet serving their terminal carry a dedicated livery (ie P&O livery)
 

43167

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I would like to think there will be major improvements in linking both the Cairnryan ferry terminals and Stranraer Railway Station with a bus link when Stena move.

I did the Larne-Cairnryan fast ferry at the end of august, and I did check bus connections and found them non-existant, thought no problem, will get a taxi, but was very surprised when I left the terminal & found non. But the chap behind the desk was very helpful and rang for one on my behalf.

Scotrail can help by improving the service too. If I had missed the train at about 1445, it would have been a 5 hour wait for the next.
 

embers25

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I used the local bus from Ayr to Stranraer and whilst slow it does serve Cairnryan and passes near Stranraer station but there was no stop. Luckily as it was 2330 at night the driver stopped to let me off anyway. The bus is also much more scenic than the train although a little slower. It does pass Girvan station too.
 

rail-britain

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Scotrail can help by improving the service too. If I had missed the train at about 1445, it would have been a 5 hour wait for the next
In the long term it looks like there will be no change, as none of the parties could agree on linking timetables together
As a result, TS pretty much decided not to proceed further with any of the proposals that were put forward
 

TUC

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Stena Line did give a committment in media interviews at the time of the Cairnryan announcement that what they called the 'very popular' Rail and Sail would continue although they didn't give details on how.
 

phil8715

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From what i've read they will be running a connecting coach from Ayr to Loch Ryan as it will be called.

I used the railsail deal last a couple of weeks ago.

When I go over at Christmas I will be doing the Eurolines overnight service from Manchester.
 

rail-britain

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Is it still a 156 from stranraer to newcastle?
Yes, but not direct any more the two Stranraer - Newcastle services ceased a few years ago now , a change at Kilmarnock is required and in some cases also at Carlisle
 

junglejames

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The last I heard, Stena would be running a connecting bus service from Ayr Station to their ferry terminal.
For some reason they decided against Girvan.
 

phil8715

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It would have made more sense to upgrade Stranraer ferry terminal rather then move it to Loch Ryan because of the rail link. One mistake Virgin trains made was not running the through boat train from Euston after they got the franchise.

Another thing that doesn't make sense is the 1142 from Glasgow Central which connects with the 1430 sailing to Belfast arriving at Stranraer at 1356. The return train departs Stranraer at 1443 but only runs as far as Kilmarnock, why didn't Scotrail run it into Glasgow instead of having to change at Ayr for a busy commuter train to Glasgow?

Makes no sense.
 

CarterUSM

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I can't help feeling Stranraer is finished in the not to distant future. Subsidising fares for the locals would be a half decent gesture in the meantime, something similar to the Carlisle-Dumfries cheap fare perhaps.
 

rail-britain

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The last I heard, Stena would be running a connecting bus service from Ayr Station to their ferry terminal.
For some reason they decided against Girvan.
Ayr was chosen in order to reduce the number of changes to passengers, this also provides a more reliable link
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another thing that doesn't make sense is the 1142 from Glasgow Central which connects with the 1430 sailing to Belfast arriving at Stranraer at 1356. The return train departs Stranraer at 1443 but only runs as far as Kilmarnock, why didn't Scotrail run it into Glasgow instead of having to change at Ayr for a busy commuter train to Glasgow?
The 14:43 arrives into Kilmarnock at 16:34
This then connects into the 16:12 Glasgow - Newcastle
This then allows the same unit to return as the 17:04 Kilmarnock - Stranraer which connects into the 13:22 Newcastle - Glasgow
It is the best use of a unit, which previously simply ran Girvan - Ayr
 

starrymarkb

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It would have made more sense to upgrade Stranraer ferry terminal rather then move it to Loch Ryan because of the rail link. One mistake Virgin trains made was not running the through boat train from Euston after they got the franchise.

IIRC Loch Ryan would be a shorter crossing (AIUI the HSS can't go full speed until it exits the Loch) with better road access (Freight is the main thing for the ferry co)
 

Greenback

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Foot passengers arriving by train ar eof no interest at all to the ferry company. Cars full of passengers and lorries full of goods are of great interest. Business wise it's not worth them investing 50p in Stranraer.
 

rail-britain

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Foot passengers arriving by train ar eof no interest at all to the ferry company
On the contrary, such passengers are in effect pure profit
The issue is the high variance in such numbers
Hence why on some Stranraer - Belfast ferries the number of cars has to be reduced due to the large volumes of foot passengers (typically some Celtic football games)
However, what the ferry companies are not prepared to do is pamper them beyond their terminal

A similar issue confronted motorail many years ago
Passengers loved taking their own car
However, numbers slowly fell as people realised there was little time saving and the overall costs were about the same (even possible to include additional hotel costs)
 

Greenback

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On the contrary, such passengers are in effect pure profit
The issue is the high variance in such numbers
Hence why on some Stranraer - Belfast ferries the number of cars has to be reduced due to the large volumes of foot passengers (typically some Celtic football games)
However, what the ferry companies are not prepared to do is pamper them beyond their terminal

A similar issue confronted motorail many years ago
Passengers loved taking their own car
However, numbers slowly fell as people realised there was little time saving and the overall costs were about the same (even possible to include additional hotel costs)

In what way are they pure profit? How much of sail rail ticket does the ferry company get? How much of that goes toward the cost of running the service?

In comparison, how much of the car + passenger fares go to other organisations?
 

JoeGJ1984

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You say that sail-rail passengers are a dying breed - I would have thought that it may be popular with families with children - particularly on routes such as Portsmouth to Bilbao I would think that in the summer holidays in particular, Londoners may use the train to Portsmouth and then the ferry to, say, Bilbao or Santander. (I would think it would be cheaper than taking a car over and perhaps less stressful than flying, particularly with young children).

I have no experience of it however (both sail and rail and children).
 

43167

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It would have made more sense to upgrade Stranraer ferry terminal rather then move it to Loch Ryan because of the rail link. One mistake Virgin trains made was not running the through boat train from Euston after they got the franchise.

Another thing that doesn't make sense is the 1142 from Glasgow Central which connects with the 1430 sailing to Belfast arriving at Stranraer at 1356. The return train departs Stranraer at 1443 but only runs as far as Kilmarnock, why didn't Scotrail run it into Glasgow instead of having to change at Ayr for a busy commuter train to Glasgow?

Makes no sense.

The cabbie told me its safer for the ships at Cairnryan, I guess by that he means deeper water and less chance of grounding.
 

Greenback

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You say that sail-rail passengers are a dying breed - I would have thought that it may be popular with families with children - particularly on routes such as Portsmouth to Bilbao I would think that in the summer holidays in particular, Londoners may use the train to Portsmouth and then the ferry to, say, Bilbao or Santander. (I would think it would be cheaper than taking a car over and perhaps less stressful than flying, particularly with young children).

I have no experience of it however (both sail and rail and children).

Numbers on short sea crossings to Ireland have been hit by low cost airlines in the last decade. However, it's possible that numbers are now set to increase, or have increased recently.

On longer sea crossings, mini breaks are popular. I have travelled to Northern Spain many times on these types of offers, and thy are generally pretty well loaded. However, most people appear to park at the port, rather than arrive by train or bus.

A fair proportion also take their cars or motorbikes with them,. and drive to their destination, whether they have families or not. Personally, I cna see the attraction of having my own vehicle if I have kids, rather than shpeherding the family and luggage through the streets of Santander to get to the raiwlay station!

I have also travelled a few times on DFDS from North Shields to Ijmuiden. A couple of double decker buses are all that is usually required from Newcastle Central station, which seems to indicate that most of the passengers on the ferries are not arriving by train. Especially since there are a fleet of coaches waiting in the Netherlands!

The ferry companies are far more road orientated. This is only to be expected as far more of their business arrives by road than by rail. Look at Holyhead where rail facilities have been swept away to improve facilities for car parking and check in. The ships no longer arrive and leave from berths adjacent to the station; the priority now is all cars and lorries.
 

Greenback

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I see. Do you know how many of those would be sold at the terminal? It would be interesting to see how they compare with people travelling on through tickets, either by bus/coach or train.

I still think that the amount of revenue gained through foot passengers arriving by public transport, whether using through tickets or not, is tiny compared to that received through car and lorry bookings.
 

4SRKT

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I'm not sure if Sail/Rail passengers are a diminishing breed. When I travelled via Stranraer the other week there were a good 20/25 passengers making the transfer.


Probably he means diminishing over a longer term. The 19:00 boat to Larne used to have an 8-10 coach train of 'Sail/Rail' foot passengers from Euston disgorged into it!
 
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