Stratford-upon-Avon -> Birkenhead -> London

[faddy]

My daughter's travelling tomorrow (Friday) from Stratford-upon-Avon to Birkenhead and on Sunday from Birkenhead to London. She'll want to travel Virgin (not LM) on Sunday.

Best combination I can see is Stratford -> Birkenhead Off-Peak return for £46.50 and an Advance Stafford -> London (currently available on most services for £15) on Sunday. Anyone have a better idea?

If she doesn't want Advances, I see she could use a Stratford -> Birmingham single and a London -> Birkenhead Off-Peak return, in which case what time restrictions would apply from Birmingham to Birkenhead? I presume that starting short in Birmingham she could travel on any train departing after the first arrival from London on which travel is permitted on the London -> Birkenhead Off-Peak, so any time after 11:08?
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Have just read http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44073, where it's suggested that when starting short it doesn't matter whether the train you join connects with a valid train from the origin station on the ticket. Is that correct and does it therefore mean my daughter could get any train from Birmingham towards Birkenhead?
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I believe this is the first time I've had so many views for a post without any replies. If it's because I've asked too many not very clear questions in one post, may I paraphrase a bit and ask - am I correct that starting short in Birmingham is ok on a London to Birkenhead Off Peak return and that either no time restrictions apply to travel from Birmingham OR that travel after 11:08 is ok?

 

[Merseysider]

Starting short at Birmingham would be undetectable because it's a station on a permitted route from EUS-BKC, which doesn't have automatic barriers to each platform. Whether it's allowed or not is a different matter.

Edit: if the train departed Euston after 0926, or originates in Birmingham, then it's fine.

 

[faddy]

Edit: if the train departed Euston after 0926, or originates in Birmingham, then it's fine.

And there'd be no difficulty in buying a London to Birkenhead ticket, dated for same day travel, at a ticket office in Stratford-upon-Avon or Birmingham?

 

[Merseysider]

And there'd be no difficulty in buying a London to Birkenhead ticket, dated for same day travel, at a ticket office in Stratford-upon-Avon or Birmingham?

None whatsoever, Webtis is your friend here.

(Ie - if you do have any issues getting the ticket - go to TPE or Southern and buy it online - it'll be available immediately.)

Edit: And if there are any issues doing that, as a last resort, buy an Off-Peak Return to Birkenhead from BHM or SAV and ask for an over-distance excess to London Euston (will charge the difference between BHM-BKC and EUS-BKC) but must be done before travel to London and may create even more issues.

 

[faddy]

Edit: And if there are any issues doing that, as a last resort, buy an Off-Peak Return to Birkenhead from BHM or SAV and ask for an over-distance excess to London Euston (will charge the difference between BHM-BKC and EUS-BKC) but must be done before travel to London and may create even more issues.

I think of excesses as a bit of a dark art, not for the likes of me. Do they generally provide a viable way to make open jaw returns, providing you can find someone capable of issuing them?

My questions above have become moot as my daughter has, inevitably, ignored my advice and bought a single to Birkenhead with the intention of later buying an Advance for her Birkenhead to London travel.
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None whatsoever, Webtis is your friend here.

Are you suggesting that ticket office staff may be reluctant to sell a ticket on which you're obviously going to start short?
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an over-distance excess to London Euston (will charge the difference between BHM-BKC and EUS-BKC)

Not half the difference?

 

[Paul Kelly]

If she doesn't want Advances, I see she could use a Stratford -> Birmingham single and a London -> Birkenhead Off-Peak return, in which case what time restrictions would apply from Birmingham to Birkenhead?

I should think only a Stratford to Dorridge single should be necessary, as from Dorridge onwards you'd be on a permitted route from London to Birkenhead.

 

[Merseysider]

I think of excesses as a bit of a dark art, not for the likes of me. Do they generally provide a viable way to make open jaw returns, providing you can find someone capable of issuing them?

My questions above have become moot as my daughter has, inevitably, ignored my advice and bought a single to Birkenhead with the intention of later buying an Advance for her Birkenhead to London travel.
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Are you suggesting that ticket office staff may be reluctant to sell a ticket on which you're obviously going to start short?
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Not half the difference?

Not half the difference any more, no. The rules changed some time ago so it is now the full difference between the two tickets, even if in one direction only.

Yes, staff may be reluctant to do anything slightly unusual - I can't speak for staff down by Brum but some staff are happy to retail anything under the sun; others not so much.

Excess tickets look complicated at first but they're actually quite simple - the hardest part is actually getting them.

 

[faddy]

Yes, staff may be reluctant to do anything slightly unusual

In this instance, simply because the ticket starts from somewhere not local, or because of the starting short aspect (obvious as it would be a ticket dated today)?

 

[Merseysider]

In this instance, simply because the ticket starts from somewhere not local, or because of the starting short aspect (obvious as it would be a ticket dated today)?

I might well be mistaken here, but according to National Rail Enquiries, restriction 9I (for EUS-BKQ) does not carry any break of journey restrictions on the outward portion. So it is seemingly allowed.

This is contrast to Euston - Llandudno, with restriction code VN which clearly states 'Break of journey is not permitted'.

However, there is evidence on this forum that some staff will stick to their guns and claim something is forbidden, even when the passenger asks them to double check, which is why there may be issues even though there shouldn't be.

 

[button_boxer]

Not half the difference?

No. If returns cost the same as two singles then that would make sense, but with a return often being just a few pence to a few pounds more than the single, a "half the difference" policy would lead to situations like a B-A return with a return-half-only overdistance excess to Z being significantly cheaper than an A-Z single. (For a concrete example, try A=Manchester, Z=London, B=Levenshulme).

 

[faddy]

No. If returns cost the same as two singles then that would make sense, but with a return often being just a few pence to a few pounds more than the single, a "half the difference" policy would lead to situations like a B-A return with a return-half-only overdistance excess to Z being significantly cheaper than an A-Z single. (For a concrete example, try A=Manchester, Z=London, B=Levenshulme).

Yet that used to be the rule, no?

 

[Crossover]

Yet that used to be the rule, no?

Yes it did

 

[Merseysider]

Yet that used to be the rule, no?

That was the rule but ATOC clocked on that it was a naughty way round paying the full price and changed it.

 

[dzug2]

I should think only a Stratford to Dorridge single should be necessary, as from Dorridge onwards you'd be on a permitted route from London to Birkenhead.

But you might be travelling via Henley in Arden rather that Dorridge