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Strike Day query

PyrahnaRanger

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I’ve had an email from Northern to tell me that there are no trains and no replacement transport on Thursday.

This has caused me a bit of an issue in that I’m travelling Workington->Reading tomorrow, and due to travel back on Thursday. It’s been booked well before the strike, and is to a meeting with lots of people involved that isn’t simple to move. Assuming I get back to Carlisle, what option do I have in getting back? Is it reasonable to book a taxi/get someone to collect me and send Northern a bill? Is there any obligation on Northern to facilitate a journey that was booked and paid for in good faith before the strike was announced?
 
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jfollows

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Strike days

  • There will be no rail replacement buses on strike days (9 May) for Northern services.
  • Some Northern stations may be closed or have reduced hours due to limited staffing and services.


Ticket easements and refunds for strike days

You can request a fee-free change of journey for all ticket types if the train is cancelled or delayed, or rescheduled from that in the published timetable of the day after you have purchased a ticket, via our refunds requests page.

If you have a ticket for the day(s) industrial action is taking place you can use the ticket for travel on specified alternative days (excludes London Underground):

  • Customers with Advance, Anytime or Off-Peak tickets for travel between Tuesday 7th May – Thursday 9th May can instead use their tickets any time between Monday 6th May until Monday 13th May - The policy only applies to tickets purchased before the strikes were announced i.e. 22rd April.
Daily tickets, such as Anytime or Off-Peak can claim a full refund with no admin fee if you decide not to travel from the point of purchase on the refunds request page or find more refund details on the Northern Refunds page

Season ticket refund, including flexi – You can get a refund on the portion of the season ticket not used, as per the standard refund policy through the season ticket compensation form more information can be found on the season ticket strike calculator page.

Updated 01/05/2024
 

Watershed

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I’ve had an email from Northern to tell me that there are no trains and no replacement transport on Thursday.

This has caused me a bit of an issue in that I’m travelling Workington->Reading tomorrow, and due to travel back on Thursday. It’s been booked well before the strike, and is to a meeting with lots of people involved that isn’t simple to move. Assuming I get back to Carlisle, what option do I have in getting back? Is it reasonable to book a taxi/get someone to collect me and send Northern a bill? Is there any obligation on Northern to facilitate a journey that was booked and paid for in good faith before the strike was announced?
Northern are obliged to get you to your contracted destination, come "hell or high water". The fact that they've provided you with prior notice that they won't be running any trains or providing replacement transport is neither here nor there - they remain legally obliged to get you from A to B. That is, after all, what you paid for when you bought your ticket; it's also your entitlement under consumer law as well as rail passenger rights law.

Just to go through the motions, I'd contact Northern to obtain confirmation that they're refusing to provide any form of alternative transport. Once you have that (ideally in writing, e.g. through social media) you have clear evidence of a breach of contract, which will entitle you to recover your reasonable costs of sourcing your own replacement transport (i.e. a bus or taxi, whatever constitutes a reasonable alternative in the circumstances).

When you contact Northern to claim back your costs afterwards, they'll no doubt try and bring up their email/notification about the lack of trains - claiming that this somehow magically gets them out of all their obligations. Of course, that's nonsense and they'd be laughed out of Court if they maintained that as their defence. In reality, they'd likely settle long before any hearing.

Similarly, if you're sufficiently delayed (vs your original timings) as a result of having to take alternative forms of transport, Northern are - as a bare minimum - required to pay the delay compensation level set out in the Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulation (PRO), i.e. 25% of the relevant portion of your ticket for a 60-119 minute delay or 50% for a 120+ minute delay.

Northern will undoubtedly argue that they can make up whichever timetable they like (i.e. "no trains at all") for Delay Repay purposes, but even though this is in itself highly dubious under consumer law, there's no such "Timetable of the Day" equivalent for the PRO; indeed the PRO explicitly states that PRO rights can't be waived or restricted through contractual or other means.

It's disappointing and frustrating that the railway tries to disclaim all liability and evade all responsibility for an event that's entirely foreseeable and within its control, but sadly this is symbolic of the attitude the British rail industry has to customer service in general.
 

PyrahnaRanger

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Lancashire
@jfollows thanks. I read that, but:

1) my journey involves London Underground, so I read that as I can’t use my ticket there on alternative days.
2) I’m returning from Reading after two nights in a hotel there. I can’t move my journey earlier (I travel down Tuesday, meet my colleagues Wednesday and travel back Thursday), I could only stay another night, but who would pay for that?
3) if I refund the return leg, how do I get home? Or are they suggesting refund both and use alternate transport instead?

@Watershed great advice, much appreciated. I’ll see how I get on!

Cheers both
 

gray1404

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What time are you due to arrive in Carlisle on the return journey? You should be allowed to travel earlier if needed to avoid being stranded.

I would double check what times Avanti are running services.

I would look at buses from Carlisle and Penrith to get you to your destination if possible. It will be a lot easier to recover a £2 bus fare from Northern or request a free journey ticket then the cost of a taxi.
 
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thedbdiboy

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Northern are obliged to get you to your contracted destination, come "hell or high water". The fact that they've provided you with prior notice that they won't be running any trains or providing replacement transport is neither here nor there - they remain legally obliged to get you from A to B. That is, after all, what you paid for when you bought your ticket; it's also your entitlement under consumer law as well as rail passenger rights law.

Just to go through the motions, I'd contact Northern to obtain confirmation that they're refusing to provide any form of alternative transport. Once you have that (ideally in writing, e.g. through social media) you have clear evidence of a breach of contract, which will entitle you to recover your reasonable costs of sourcing your own replacement transport (i.e. a bus or taxi, whatever constitutes a reasonable alternative in the circumstances).

When you contact Northern to claim back your costs afterwards, they'll no doubt try and bring up their email/notification about the lack of trains - claiming that this somehow magically gets them out of all their obligations. Of course, that's nonsense and they'd be laughed out of Court if they maintained that as their defence. In reality, they'd likely settle long before any hearing.

Similarly, if you're sufficiently delayed (vs your original timings) as a result of having to take alternative forms of transport, Northern are - as a bare minimum - required to pay the delay compensation level set out in the Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulation (PRO), i.e. 25% of the relevant portion of your ticket for a 60-119 minute delay or 50% for a 120+ minute delay.

Northern will undoubtedly argue that they can make up whichever timetable they like (i.e. "no trains at all") for Delay Repay purposes, but even though this is in itself highly dubious under consumer law, there's no such "Timetable of the Day" equivalent for the PRO; indeed the PRO explicitly states that PRO rights can't be waived or restricted through contractual or other means.

It's disappointing and frustrating that the railway tries to disclaim all liability and evade all responsibility for an event that's entirely foreseeable and within its control, but sadly this is symbolic of the attitude the British rail industry has to customer service in general.
This is a contentious area, but it isn't helpful to rephrase the actual legal obligations to distort their meaning. If a transport contract is frustrated, then a refund is due or the passenger has the right to be transported from A to B, but not necessarily at the same time or even on the same day. The PRO obligations require alternative provision where it can 'reasonably' be provided; that is not the same as 'come hell or high water'.
 

furlong

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The PRO obligations require alternative provision where it can 'reasonably' be provided; that is not the same as 'come hell or high water'.
Indeed, the train companies do their utmost to persuade people to adjust their travel plans around the revised service (or cancel their contracts), and the vast majority accept these contractual modifications. This means the number of passengers they actually need to accommodate trying to exercise their right to be provided with transport close to their original schedule is a much smaller number. Or in other words, an argument that because it can't reasonably be provided for everyone, it can't reasonably be provided for anyone is unlikely to hold water.
 

MrJeeves

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If a transport contract is frustrated, then a refund is due or the passenger has the right to be transported from A to B, but not necessarily at the same time or even on the same day.
It's important to clarify that the options are the passenger's choice.

If we read the government's own advice to rail operators:
Where there is a reasonable expectation that a delay that will lead to arrival at the final destination 60 minutes or more late, passengers may either choose to have a:

refund of the fare when the journey will no longer serve the passenger’s originally planned purpose. The refund will include the return journey where appropriate
- or
continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity
- or
continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

While the guidance obviously isn't part of the legislation, pointing to the earliest opportunity is rather clear to me.

Reading Annex I, Title IV, Chapter II:
Chapter II

Liability in case of failure to keep to the timetable

Article 32

Liability in case of cancellation, late running of trains or missed connections

1. The carrier shall be liable to the passenger for loss or damage resulting from the fact that, by reason of cancellation, the late running of a train or a missed connection, his journey cannot be continued the same day, or that a continuation of the journey the same day could not reasonably be required because of given circumstances. The damages shall comprise the reasonable costs of accommodation as well as the reasonable costs occasioned by having to notify persons expecting the passenger.

2. The carrier shall be relieved of this liability, when the cancellation, late running or missed connection is attributable to one of the following causes:

(a) circumstances not connected with the operation of the railway which the carrier, in spite of having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, could not avoid and the consequences of which he was unable to prevent;

(b) fault on the part of the passenger; or

(c) the behaviour of a third party which the carrier, in spite of having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, could not avoid and the consequences of which he was unable to prevent; another undertaking using the same railway infrastructure shall not be considered as a third party; the right of recourse shall not be affected.

3. National law shall determine whether and to what extent the carrier must pay damages for harm other than that provided for in paragraph 1. This provision shall be without prejudice to Article 44.
It's worth also noting that union strike action or action short of strike does not meet the exemption criteria. While they are third parties, it would be very difficult to argue they're outside of the railways control.

Additionally if we read Article 18 of the legislation:

2. In the case of any delay as referred to in paragraph 1 of more than 60 minutes, passengers shall also be offered free of charge:

(a) meals and refreshments in reasonable relation to the waiting time, if they are available on the train or in the station, or can reasonably be supplied;

(b) hotel or other accommodation, and transport between the railway station and place of accommodation, in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary or an additional stay becomes necessary, where and when physically possible;

(c) if the train is blocked on the track, transport from the train to the railway station, to the alternative departure point or to the final destination of the service, where and when physically possible.

3. If the railway service cannot be continued anymore, railway undertakings shall organise as soon as possible alternative transport services for passengers
As soon as possible cannot really be argued as "in a few days".
 

island

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In practice, the train companies tend to pay claims for alternative transport unless they're grossly unreasonable. They don't want to risk it going through court to a point at which an adverse precedent might be set.
 

Haywain

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In practice, the train companies tend to pay claims for alternative transport unless they're grossly unreasonable
And that means that a taxi may be considered unreasonable if a bus is available.
They don't want to risk it going through court to a point at which an adverse precedent might be set.
No precedent will be set in the small claims court.
 

thedbdiboy

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It's worth remembering too that the dynamic here is very different from that seeking to regulate private activities. The TOCs (bar a handful of open access services) are publicly funded operations. The interpretation of the various statutes is not undertaken by evil cackling overlords while they ogle their brimming chests of treasure - it is instead based on guidance from departments of the very same Government that the enacts the legislation which the courts have to interpret. So the likelihood that the floodgates would open to all sorts of generous provisions if only the TOCs could be forced to do so is slim.
 

island

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No precedent will be set in the small claims court.
Indeed, and I have not said otherwise. They will always pay adverse county court judgements (or settle before the case is heard) rather than going to court of appeal which can set precedent.
 

Watershed

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1) my journey involves London Underground, so I read that as I can’t use my ticket there on alternative days.
That's TfL's policy, yes. But like many TfL policies regarding National Rail ticketing, it doesn't really have any basis in law. They've just come up with that policy because it's operationally convenient - as it means passengers won't have to be let through gatelines manually. The fact that it happens to generate them more revenue from being 'paid twice' for the transfer is also a nice secondary benefit.

Pursuing TfL over a cross-London fare costing a few pounds is admittedly unlikely to be considered worthwhile by most.

I could only stay another night, but who would pay for that?
Northern, if you choose to take the option to take the next available train. Of course, they'd once again likely refuse to pay initially, but ultimately fold when things are heading towards Court - sometimes when you make a formal complaint, other times when you send a Letter Before Claim, and in a few instances once you begin a claim and they need to admit it or else submit a defence.

3) if I refund the return leg, how do I get home? Or are they suggesting refund both and use alternate transport instead?
Train companies fail to consider scenarios like yours when pushing refunds as the solution. They're not interested in helping you out; they just want to move the cost and inconvenience of the strike onto passengers.

This is a contentious area
Which part of it is contentious?

The fact that the train companies are, indeed, obliged to get you to your destination if you choose not to take a refund can hardly be viewed as contentious, if that's what you're suggesting.

it isn't helpful to rephrase the actual legal obligations to distort their meaning
Would you like to give an example of what you mean by this?

If a transport contract is frustrated
There can be no suggestion the contract is frustrated. Frustration of a contract requires several elements, none of which are present here; there must be a supervening event which is beyond either party's control, and that event must fundamentally alter the nature of the contractual obligations such that performance is rendered impossible or illegal. The event must also not be caused by any fault or negligence of either party.

A strike being called as part of an long-standing industrial dispute is entirely within the train operator's control, and indeed it could readily be argued that the train operator has been negligent in its management of industrial relations. In any event, nothing is preventing the train company from upholding its end of the bargain by providing alternative transport.

the passenger has the right to be transported from A to B, but not necessarily at the same time or even on the same day
If the contract were frustrated, it would be discharged (i.e. the money would be refunded and the ticket cancelled), so neither party would have any further obligations or rights.

The PRO is clear that alternative transport should be provided "at the earliest opportunity", whilst consumer law requires train companies to use "reasonable care and skill", which implies a degree of competence. When buses and taxis are readily available in a well-populated area of the country, it would be absurd for a train company to suggest it couldn't do so contemporaneously, let alone the same day.

The PRO obligations require alternative provision where it can 'reasonably' be provided; that is not the same as 'come hell or high water'.
There is no 'can reasonably be provided' proviso to train operators' PRO obligations; they are contingent only on being "where and when physically possible" - in other words, financial implications are immaterial. But in this case it is plainly reasonably possible, at a reasonable cost, for the train company to provide alternative transport.

It's worth remembering too that the dynamic here is very different from that seeking to regulate private activities. The TOCs (bar a handful of open access services) are publicly funded operations.
Train operators are subject to consumer, contract and railway law. In many ways they are more heavily regulated than ordinary private companies. The fact they are publicly funded is in no way a defence to their obdurate refusal to comply with their obligations; if anything, they should be setting an example by doing things correctly.

The interpretation of the various statutes is not undertaken by evil cackling overlords while they ogle their brimming chests of treasure
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the railway is making huge profits at the expense of customers in holding this policy. The railway is fundamentally loss-making and in all likelihood will remain so in perpetuity. None of that changes the fact that the railway can't get out of its obligations by waving some magical wand.

it is instead based on guidance from departments of the very same Government that the enacts the legislation
I would be very surprised if the DfT is instructing TOCs to adopt any particular position in relation to assisting passengers with alternative transport options during strikes. Do you have any evidence to suggest this is happening?

which the courts have to interpret
Courts interpret the law. They have no regard for guidance that a company's owner (whether governmental or otherwise) gives it about whether it should act in breach of contract.

So the likelihood that the floodgates would open to all sorts of generous provisions if only the TOCs could be forced to do so is slim.
It's hardly a 'generous provision' to be provided with alternative transport during strikes, when you hold a pre-booked ticket. It's the kind of obligation that exists in many other parts of the transport sector. It's really just the bare minimum you would expect any reasonable company to provide.

One individual bringing a claim against a train company is not going to open the floodgates to anything, in any event. The OP has come here for advice; I am not sure that it is really helpful to them if we pontificate on whether their rights under consumer and passenger rights law are generous or not.
 

thedbdiboy

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Which part of it is contentious? - the contentious bit is not about getting the passenger to their destination; it's the interpretation that this must mean a taxi or a ticket on the fastest alternative provider regardless of cost.

Would you like to give an example of what you mean by this? I was referring to your phrase that the TOC must get the passenger there 'come hell or high water'. That seemed the very opposite of 'where it reasonably can'

There can be no suggestion the contract is frustrated. Frustration of a contract requires several elements, none of which are present here; there must be a supervening event which is beyond either party's control, and that event must fundamentally alter the nature of the contractual obligations such that performance is rendered impossible or illegal. The event must also not be caused by any fault or negligence of either party.

A strike being called as part of an long-standing industrial dispute is entirely within the train operator's control, and indeed it could readily be argued that the train operator has been negligent in its management of industrial relations. In any event, nothing is preventing the train company from upholding its end of the bargain by providing alternative transport. Yet we all know that the disputes are not within the operators' control - it is the Government itself that is standing in the way of the dispute being settled. The same Government that is on the hook for the cost of the rail contracts. None of those contracts will have been signed without suitable indemnification.

The PRO is clear that alternative transport should be provided "at the earliest opportunity", whilst consumer law requires train companies to use "reasonable care and skill", which implies a degree of competence. When buses and taxis are readily available in a well-populated area of the country, it would be absurd for a train company to suggest it couldn't do so contemporaneously, let alone the same day. Whether it is absurd depends on the details of the contract the operator has with the Government. (That's not saying it's right or wrong, just trying to be realistic that TOC behaviour will be driven by the nature of their operating contract)

There is no 'can reasonably be provided' proviso to train operators' PRO obligations; they are contingent only on being "where and when physically possible" - in other words, financial implications are immaterial. But in this case it is plainly reasonably possible, at a reasonable cost, for the train company to provide alternative transport. 'Financial implications are immaterial' is a concept that has never been tested in court. Until it becomes the subject of case law, it is an opinion

Train operators are subject to consumer, contract and railway law. In many ways they are more heavily regulated than ordinary private companies. The fact they are publicly funded is in no way a defence to their obdurate refusal to comply with their obligations; if anything, they should be setting an example by doing things correctly. A noble thought. You mean, like the Post Office?

I would be very surprised if the DfT is instructing TOCs to adopt any particular position in relation to assisting passengers with alternative transport options during strikes. Do you have any evidence to suggest this is happening? None that I can share, but the contracts the TOCs operate under hold them very tightly liable for costs incurred.

Courts interpret the law. They have no regard for guidance that a company's owner (whether governmental or otherwise) gives it about whether it should act in breach of contract. But until the law is interpreted in court, a company will take into account legal guidance (which can never state with certainty how a court would rule but will provide guidance on the ability to defend interpretations). This legal guidance will be based on case law for similar circumstances, of the kind that would be advanced in a court case. It's not going to be what you or I 'think', that's not how the English legal system works.

One individual bringing a claim against a train company is not going to open the floodgates to anything, in any event. The OP has come here for advice; I am not sure that it is really helpful to them if we pontificate on whether their rights under consumer and passenger rights law are generous or not. The basic advice to have a go at claiming from the TOC for the unplanned extra costs was sound. Saying that the TOC is breaking the law and they know it is perhaps less so. In my experience asking nicely to be reimbursed as a first step is likely to be more successful than demanding to be repaid.
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