Strike-hit rail line gets £300m upgrade

[Alfie1014]

Anybody know any more about this? There is nothing on the DfT or Southern's website. I read the article in the Osteopaths this morning but it didn't really go on to give any real detail other than it's in addition to the original £30M. Is it possibly due to the Chris Gibb work stream, though the article references some of the busiest rail routes? i don't have access to the paywall so can't copy the whole article.

At least £300 million of taxpayers’ money will be spent on attempting to cut delays on Southern Rail as the network suffers the worst rail strike in a generation.

The Department for Transport announced that emergency funding was being rushed through to replace ageing tracks, points, signals and bridges on some of the busiest rail routes.

It came as Southern commuters were braced for further travel mayhem today with the network due to be shut by strike action for the fourth time in four weeks, forcing the cancellation of all 2,300 trains. Action by train drivers will be repeated tomorrow and on Friday.

Elsewhere, air travellers were facing a 48-hour strike by British Airways cabin crew, which was expected to ground about 50 flights today…

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/strike-hit-rail-line-gets-300m-upgrade-z89hsm9hj

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From the Network Rail web site: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/major-funding-improvements/

The Department for Transport has confirmed £300m funding for improvement works, to be delivered by Network Rail, to boost the resilience of the infrastructure on the Southern and Thameslink railway networks.
The multi-million pound package of work will improve reliability for passengers along the Brighton Main Line and associated routes, funding the replacement of old tracks, points and signalling and dealing with structural repairs in tunnels.
The investment recognises the need for infrastructure improvements on the Southern and Thameslink networks

In September Chris Grayling, Secretary of State for Transport, confirmed initial funding of £20m to begin improvement works. This further £300m will drive additional resilience across the network.
Work which will be undertaken under the £300m programme will include:
improving the resilience in areas known to cause delays;
replacing signalling and rebuilding old bridges;
building specific teams to coordinate upgrade work;
improving security by the railway to help prevent trespass;
improving drainage in old tunnels to prevent water damage to electrical equipment;
shoring up cuttings and embankments to reduce the risk of landslides

Nothing on the DfT web site, so I don't know if this is part of the regular CP5/6 plans or not.
Either way, it won't be done in 5 minutes.
Sounds like a 5-year job.

 

[Deepgreen]

Without any specific works being cited, or any timetable for them, this means little.

 

[jon0844]

From the Network Rail web site: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/major-funding-improvements/



Nothing on the DfT web site, so I don't know if this is part of the regular CP5/6 plans or not.
Either way, it won't be done in 5 minutes.
Sounds like a 5-year job.

Can't they do it when Southern trains aren't running? Should give them loads of time...!

 

[Sunset route]

Without any specific works being cited, or any timetable for them, this means little.

I'm guessing that most of this funding is either the money to sort out the Selhurst, Norwood, Croydon triangle or could be coming from DaFTs digital railway budget, or both?

 

[WatcherZero]

Its new funding, its come out of the recommendations made by the review board set up alongside the previous £20m in September.

 

[Kite159]

Cue a statement from Mike Cash stating something along the lines of "more money being thrown at this basket case franchise so they can make more profits for their French owners"

 

[Senex]

So huge new funding for something else in the transport field in the South East whilstg things are still done on a shoe-string in the North.

 

[Sunset route]

So huge new funding for something else in the transport field in the South East whilstg things are still done on a shoe-string in the North.

The BML line hasn't had any serious funding since the early 80s, since then, York, Newcastle, Aire Valley, the joint line/Lincoln virtually all of the West Midlands, Nottingham and the East Midlands have been resignqlled. The whole of the West Coast Mainline to just short of Crewe and Stockport, Manchester North re-signalling, Manchester South re-signalling, Manchester East re-signalling and the list goes on and all we got was platform 7 at Gatwick Airport I'm sure Manchester airport opened in that time as two platforms, then 3 now 4 with a tram line as well.

While you were getting all of your nice new, cl142, cl143, cl144, cl150, cl155, cl156, cl158 and cl323 we were still slumming it in 30 year old slam door 3Hs, 3Ds, 2epbs, 2haps, 4epbs, 4caps, 4ceps, 4beps, 4cigs, 4bigs and 4veps which in some cases had to go another 15 years before replacement. But now the cycle turns again and the north is getting new trains again and our trains are a 3rd way through their life, excluding the class 700 cattle trucks.

 

[FordFocus]

Sunset view is correct. You can't renew everything at the same time and there is a cycle for renewals. Although I'd say the Rolling Stock replacement of 142s in the North should have happened much earlier than 2020.

I'd be interested in the timeline and what work is been done on the BML and if the money gets diverted from other projects.

 

[infobleep]

The BML line hasn't had any serious funding since the early 80s, since then, York, Newcastle, Aire Valley, the joint line/Lincoln virtually all of the West Midlands, Nottingham and the East Midlands have been resignqlled. The whole of the West Coast Mainline to just short of Crewe and Stockport, Manchester North re-signalling, Manchester South re-signalling, Manchester East re-signalling and the list goes on and all we got was platform 7 at Gatwick Airport I'm sure Manchester airport opened in that time as two platforms, then 3 now 4 with a tram line as well.

While you were getting all of your nice new, cl142, cl143, cl144, cl150, cl155, cl156, cl158 and cl323 we were still slumming it in 30 year old slam door 3Hs, 3Ds, 2epbs, 2haps, 4caps, 4ceps, 4beps, 4cigs, 4bigs and 4veps which in some cases had to go another 15 years before replacement. But now the cycle turns again and the north is getting new trains again and our trains are a 3rd way through their life, excluding the class 700 cattle trucks.

Incidentally has South West franchise had any infrastructure money spent on it, before the current redevelopment of Waterloo station that is? I only ask because that is also in the south.

 

[Firesprite]

Incidentally has South West franchise had any infrastructure money spent on it, before the current redevelopment of Waterloo station that is? I only ask because that is also in the south.

Bournemouth to Weymouth was resignaled not that long ago, Boxes closed at Branksome, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham,Wool and Dochester South. Now controled by Basingstoke with a link to Corfe Caste Box on the Swanage Railway,
The power supply east of Bournemouth may have also been upgraded.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Last time I looked Thameslink was in the south. What about all that work around London Bridge and Blackfriars?
And it's not that long since all the Channel Tunnel routes were upgraded, including new infrastructure already disused (Fawkham, Battersea, Sheepcote).
Salisbury-Exeter partial redoubling.
Freight upgrades around Southampton and Salisbury.
Huge platform lengthening and power supply upgrade projects, depot expansion etc.
Gatwick expansion, grade separation at Shortlands.
A variety of resignalling projects (East Kent, Havant, Basingstoke etc).
Oh, and HS1.
Yes, the south has really been starved lately...

 

[absolutelymilk]

nice new, cl142, cl143, cl144

Didn't think anyone would actually ever say this!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cue a statement from Mike Cash stating something along the lines of "more money being thrown at this basket case franchise so they can make more profits for their French owners"

Indeed, forget any new money for rail-related projects on the Coastway line and add it to the funding for an aspirational motorway project for the West Sussex area.

 

[Sunset route]

Last time I looked Thameslink was in the south. What about all that work around London Bridge and Blackfriars?
And it's not that long since all the Channel Tunnel routes were upgraded, including new infrastructure already disused (Fawkham, Battersea, Sheepcote).
Salisbury-Exeter partial redoubling.
Freight upgrades around Southampton and Salisbury.
Huge platform lengthening and power supply upgrade projects, depot expansion etc.
Gatwick expansion, grade separation at Shortlands.
A variety of resignalling projects (East Kent, Havant, Basingstoke etc).
Oh, and HS1.
Yes, the south has really been starved lately...

Not many of them are on the BML.

We can chuck north versus south all we want, the fact is railway investment goes round in circles and everyone has to watch with envy until their particular line sees an upgrade.

All the Thameslink ungrade is going to do is put more pressure on the BML with its 1970s designed and 1980s built junctions that were built for half the level of trains that were shorter and actually fitted inbetween junctions without overhanging as they do now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Didn't think anyone would actually ever say this!

Everybody might hate them now but in the 1980s we had lovely non corridor EPBs with compartments with no other way of getting to the next compartment unless you used a station platform and no toilets. So we looked on as the provinces got new trains with toilets and open saloons. We had Clapham then Cowden where the recommendations was to replace our old slam doors trains but we still had to wait until well into privatisation to get new trains.

 

[The Ham]

Bournemouth to Weymouth was resignaled not that long ago, Boxes closed at Branksome, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham,Wool and Dochester South. Now controled by Basingstoke with a link to Corfe Caste Box on the Swanage Railway,
The power supply east of Bournemouth may have also been upgraded.

There were significant power supply upgrades when the new trains came along, however some of the old equipment was used to upgrade power supplies around Liverpool.

At the time three was a cartoon joking that they were happy with having cast offs as they had left them plugged in down south.

 

[AM9]

It's good to see that the old chip is still firmly in place on some shoulders.
In reality, investment per (paying) passenger in the south-east is probably below most other areas in the UK.

 

[theironroad]

Bournemouth to Weymouth was resignaled not that long ago, Boxes closed at Branksome, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham,Wool and Dochester South. Now controled by Basingstoke with a link to Corfe Caste Box on the Swanage Railway,
The power supply east of Bournemouth may have also been upgraded.

Branksome signal box closed a few years before the others and was only really used for depot operations. The current staff at Dorchester south will be surprised to hear they have closed because it is still well and truly in operation. The other signal info is correct. Not too sure about power upgrade.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm guessing that most of this funding is either the money to sort out the Selhurst, Norwood, Croydon triangle or could be coming from DaFTs digital railway budget, or both?

At today's costs, I don't imagine much could be done at the triangle for £300m. I imagine this will be in the billions.

 

[hwl]

At today's costs, I don't imagine much could be done at the triangle for £300m. I imagine this will be in the billions.

Sorting out the triangle, East Croydon, West Croydon turnback alternatives and resignalling and other small items in the area will be about 3/4 of billion.

The £300m also appears to include lots of items not in that area e.g. Balcombe Tunnel, Bridge strike impact reduction so presumably finishing off the 2 centre tracks at Old Lodge Lane, doing something at Tulse Hill as 20+ strikes a year will cause serious delay issues even after BML Thameslink services go back to via London Bridge.

It also looks like the digital signalling fund is being lined up to support the signalling aspects of the "triangle" project as if you can make ETCS /ERTMS/ATO work there it will work anywhere else more easily based on the lessons learned. There is also the need to find out how much digital signalling can squeeze out of complex junctions as that is a bit of a point of debate between digital signalling evangelists and everyone else at the moment.

The key thing for the triangle project is to start (and complete) the track and signalling work at Norwood Jn* in CP5 as phase 1 of the triangle works.

*from 2 Up 3 down to 3 Up 3 down

 

[Deepgreen]

Sorting out the triangle, East Croydon, West Croydon turnback alternatives and resignalling and other small items in the area will be about 3/4 of billion.

The £300m also appears to include lots of items not in that area e.g. Balcombe Tunnel, Bridge strike impact reduction so presumably finishing off the 2 centre tracks at Old Lodge Lane, doing something at Tulse Hill as 20+ strikes a year will cause serious delay issues even after BML Thameslink services go back to via London Bridge.

It also looks like the digital signalling fund is being lined up to support the signalling aspects of the "triangle" project as if you can make ETCS /ERTMS/ATO work there it will work anywhere else more easily based on the lessons learned. There is also the need to find out how much digital signalling can squeeze out of complex junctions as that is a bit of a point of debate between digital signalling evangelists and everyone else at the moment.

The key thing for the triangle project is to start (and complete) the track and signalling work at Norwood Jn* in CP5 as phase 1 of the triangle works.

*from 2 Up 3 down to 3 Up 3 down

It therefore seems that £300m only scratches the surface here. Sounds like a glib sound bite put out by HMG to appear to be doing something but is actually all just planned, medium term expenditure.

 

[hwl]

It therefore seems that £300m only scratches the surface here. Sounds like a glib sound bite put out by HMG to appear to be doing something but is actually all just planned, medium term expenditure.

Yes but it gets things started (within the required time frame) and a few quick wins would be very useful (e.g. No 8 car + London Bridge from Slow lines at East Croydon stuck across Cottage Jn).

The late 1970s early 80s BML work started from the Northern end then in the triangle area started at Norwood Jn then ran south through to East Croydon then Redhill, Gatwick and beyond) so expect a similar sequence next time. (The early 1950s and 1920s resignalling etc work also followed the same sequence).