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Study to investigate re-opening Gobowen to Welshpool line

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40129

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Saw this on the Shropshire Star website

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/transport/2018/06/29/call-for-welshpool-to-gobowen-rail-route/
The route was shut in the 60s, and there has been some development on the line but most of it remains clear.

Now a Powys councillor, Elwyn Vaughan, has called for a study to be commissioned looking at the possibility of bringing the line back into service.

He believes it could be part of the Mid Wales growth deal, and it would bring benefits to the economy, education and health services.

He said: “My colleague Bryn Davies from Llansilin highlighted the idea, and there are a number of reasons why it would work....
Any thoughts?

Aberystwyth to Lime Street via Halton Curve?
 
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eastdyke

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Saw this on the Shropshire Star website
https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/transport/2018/06/29/call-for-welshpool-to-gobowen-rail-route/
Any thoughts?
Aberystwyth to Lime Street via Halton Curve?

Now a Powys councillor, Elwyn Vaughan, has called for a study to be commissioned looking at the possibility of bringing the line back into service.
Not a study, a councillor calling for a study - which someone needs to pay for.
Inexpensive ie 'cheap' words ..........
 
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No chance; the only line I could see feasibly re-opening in Salop is Telford to Stafford, although this is debatable as the "Main" station in Telford has moved from Wellington (The former Telford - Stafford station) to Telford Central.
 

Llanigraham

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Not a study, a councillor calling for a study - which someone needs to pay for.
Inexpensive ie 'cheap' words ..........

Myself and another ex-railway colleague will be having words with Elwyn over coffee tomorrow.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'm not sure there were through services via Gobowen before closure.
Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool was originally Cambrian, with Gobowen-Oswestry being a GWR branch shuttle (occasionally through to Chester/Birkenhead).
The pattern didn't change much after grouping/nationalisation.
Hasn't the A483 taken over the trackbed in places south of Llanymynych?
There are probably river/canal bridges to rebuild too, not to mention the heritage incumbents on the remaining track.
But Shrewsbury is the undoubted regional transport hub. I don't give it much chance.
It's also another cross-border line with all the complications that brings.
I had the pleasure of a trip over the route on an excursion from Manchester to Barmouth in 1962 (out via Dolgellau, back via Oswestry).
It also included Mouldsworth-Helsby for good measure.
Not a bad day out.
 

Railwaysceptic

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Is re-opening Gobowen to Oswestry feasible? And would it make any kind of sense to extend the Bidston/Wrexham trains to incorporate this extra leg?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool was originally Cambrian, with Gobowen-Oswestry being a GWR branch shuttle (occasionally through to Chester/Birkenhead).

On the short Gobowen to Oswestry branch line, there was just a solitary intermediate stop called Park Hall Halt, which was open from 1926 to 1966. The Disused Stations website has an article about the halt which includes a 1948 timetable for the branch line and photographic images.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The Park Hall Halt old platform is now over the fence from the very busy Gobowen Hospital car park.
The remaining line with track in situ is now in the ownership of the Cambrian Heritage Railway from Gobowen to Llynclys and the branch to Blodwell.
They also apparently own the station buildings at Gobowen.
 

Gareth Marston

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Oswestry certainly should never have been closed one of the very few green dot highest revenue generating stations in the reshaping report closed. The shuttle to Gobowen was generating more traffic than Gobowen is now.

As they kept the line open for freight the marginal cost of keeping the shuttle would have been minimal. It needs bringing back on to the network.
 

Gareth Marston

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I'm not sure there were through services via Gobowen before closure.
Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool was originally Cambrian, with Gobowen-Oswestry being a GWR branch shuttle (occasionally through to Chester/Birkenhead).
The pattern didn't change much after grouping/nationalisation.
Hasn't the A483 taken over the trackbed in places south of Llanymynych?
There are probably river/canal bridges to rebuild too, not to mention the heritage incumbents on the remaining track.
But Shrewsbury is the undoubted regional transport hub. I don't give it much chance.
It's also another cross-border line with all the complications that brings.
I had the pleasure of a trip over the route on an excursion from Manchester to Barmouth in 1962 (out via Dolgellau, back via Oswestry).
It also included Mouldsworth-Helsby for good measure.
Not a bad day out.

There's "road improvements " over the track bed at Arddleen and Pool Quay, neither of which are insurmountable plus a limited amount of housing on trackbed and bridges over the Vyrnwy at Llanymynech and Severn near Pool Quay otherwise it's in open fields.

Interestingly the heritage part is entirely in England with abandoned track bed in Wales.
 

snowball

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Of course, there's also a campaign to restore the canal.

And there's the comatose A483 Pant-Llanymynech bypass proposal.
 

Llanigraham

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Of course, there's also a campaign to restore the canal.

And there's the comatose A483 Pant-Llanymynech bypass proposal.

And the campaign to reopen the canal, at least as far as Welshpool is far more advanced and has got a better chance of being completed.

Spoke to Elwyn yesterday morning (over coffee as usual) and all that has been proposed is a STUDY into this; nothing more. I can partially see where they are coming from as there probably is a small need for people to travel from Welshpool to Wrexham, typically for education and hospital visits, and at the moment if they do need to travel by train the only way is through Shrewsbury. However I am very doubtful that this "need" would ever be economically viable.
 
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As railway enthusiasts we don't seem very good on here about getting behind possible new reinstatements. What's the likely BCR for this proposal - is it really totally hopeless? Is there anyone able to give indicative BCRs - without charging 60k, or anything for them?

Maybe then we can target a top 10 or 20 say and make sure they are sped through before tackling the next 10 or 20? I think ATOC did this with Connecting Communities' in 2009?
 

The Planner

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First things you need to ask are what does it unlock? Is there a suppressed demand which cutting the corner of Shrewsbury opens up? Also bear in mind the implications it has on the rest of the Cambrian, unless the plan is for this new link to take one of the hourly paths. Clearly Oswestry gains but where do people from there go and want to go? Surely the majority is towards Wrexham/Chester?
 

Matt P

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I'm not sure there were through services via Gobowen before closure.
Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool was originally Cambrian, with Gobowen-Oswestry being a GWR branch shuttle (occasionally through to Chester/Birkenhead).
The pattern didn't change much after grouping/nationalisation.
Hasn't the A483 taken over the trackbed in places south of Llanymynych?
There are probably river/canal bridges to rebuild too, not to mention the heritage incumbents on the remaining track.
But Shrewsbury is the undoubted regional transport hub. I don't give it much chance.
It's also another cross-border line with all the complications that brings.
I had the pleasure of a trip over the route on an excursion from Manchester to Barmouth in 1962 (out via Dolgellau, back via Oswestry).
It also included Mouldsworth-Helsby for good measure.
Not a bad day out.

I have the 15 June to 13 September 1959 Working Timetable for the Oswestry and Chester districts. As you say, the vast majority of the passenger services between Oswestry and Gobowen were just the shuttle workings. In the summer of 1959 there was one through working each day to Oswestry from Wrexham and a rail motor to Oswestry from Chester. There was also a weekday Gobowen to Welshpool. In the opposite direction there was a single through working to Birkenhead and two to Wrexham, one of those being a rail motor.

In addition there was a passenger working in each direction that used the Llanfyllin branch stock and locomotive, but it is not listed as a through working. I therefore assume the train (or at least the stock) sat in Oswestry after arrival from Gobowen/Llanfyllin to form a later onward journey because this also seems to have happened with a number of services on the Whitchurch to Welshpool route, which terminated at Oswestry with the stock being left in the through platform roads and used for a separate onward journey later. I read somewhere a while back that this meant the centre road through Oswestry station came in useful as a result for freight workings.

Never actually saw any passenger workings at Oswestry, it had been freight only for some time before I was born. Never actually lucky enough to see the stone train workings through Oswestry, even though I grew up there (I was 10 when the last one ran). I do remember seeing them reverse at Gobowen though, both before and after South Box closed. Gobowen is also where I witnessed a JCB 'shunting' coal wagons in the yard at Gobowen!
 

Matt P

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It sounded like a bit of a yarn, but I remember my driving instructor (when were travelling parallel to the Oswestry branch circa 1996) telling me that when the shuttle was withdrawn a local businessman wanted to run his own shuttle but was not allowed by BR in case he made a success of it, and made idiots of them in the process.

I was also once told by someone at the Cambrian Railway Museum that the reason for the withdrawal of the shuttle was the cost of having to trip the DMU to Oswestry and back at the beginning and end of the day (from Shrewsbury or Chester, I cant remember which).

I dont know if there is any substance to either of the above. The latter sounds a plausible 1960s excuse to withdraw the service. I suspect the former is more fiction than fact but then again also at least remotely plausible, although if even partly true Id imagine thisis only part of the story.
 

6Gman

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It sounded like a bit of a yarn, but I remember my driving instructor (when were travelling parallel to the Oswestry branch circa 1996) telling me that when the shuttle was withdrawn a local businessman wanted to run his own shuttle but was not allowed by BR in case he made a success of it, and made idiots of them in the process.

I was also once told by someone at the Cambrian Railway Museum that the reason for the withdrawal of the shuttle was the cost of having to trip the DMU to Oswestry and back at the beginning and end of the day (from Shrewsbury or Chester, I cant remember which).

I dont know if there is any substance to either of the above. The latter sounds a plausible 1960s excuse to withdraw the service. I suspect the former is more fiction than fact but then again also at least remotely plausible, although if even partly true Id imagine thisis only part of the story.

I suspect the businessman had been watching The Titfield Thunderbolt.

:D
 

Gareth Marston

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First things you need to ask are what does it unlock? Is there a suppressed demand which cutting the corner of Shrewsbury opens up? Also bear in mind the implications it has on the rest of the Cambrian, unless the plan is for this new link to take one of the hourly paths. Clearly Oswestry gains but where do people from there go and want to go? Surely the majority is towards Wrexham/Chester?

Shrewsbury and Teford are also less than an hours drive from Oswestry.
 

DavidGrain

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There were competing preservation societies on this stretch of line although I believe they have now agreed a truce. Years ago, I don't remember how long ago, I parked my car in the hospital carpark and walked down onto the Park Hall Halt platform and found a volunteer from one of the preservation societies repainting the sign boards at the platform. I then walked along the track which appeared then to be in good condition although it had been many years since a freight train ran through. I got to the A5 which still had the level crossing in place but disused. I don't think I would like to take a train across a 70mph dual carriage road.

On a personal note, my late mother used to tell me of her trips to Gobowen on the GWR and then taking the branch train to Park Hall to visit my father who was stationed at the Royal Artillery training camp during the war.
 

vidal

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Having driven down the congested A5 I'd say having a level crossing will be the killer. Unless the road or railway changes level (hideously expensive) this will be a complete non starter.
 
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