Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid

[Stan Drews]

Stagecoach West Scotland service 101/102 between Edinburgh and Dumfries is to cease running in mid-August. (Source: VOSA)

…and perhaps surprisingly, that is a local authority (Dumfries & Galloway) decision to end the funding.

 

[ChrisC]

Big cuts to bus services in South Yorkshire, especially Sheffield, was the headline on ITV Yorkshire Calendar News tonight. It mentioned cuts to many evening and Sunday services from next month with more to come in October.

I don’t live in South Yorkshire, but in a village on a mainly rural route in Nottinghamshire. Having had to wait until I will be 66 to get my ENCTS pass, I have a feeling that just as I receive my bus pass in October, the bus service through the village will be drastically reduced or even axed completely.

 

[DunsBus]

…and perhaps surprisingly, that is a local authority (Dumfries & Galloway) decision to end the funding.

Scottish Borders reduced its funding for the 101/102 back in 2018, to much outcry at the time.

 

[gazmark]

Big cuts to bus services in South Yorkshire, especially Sheffield, was the headline on ITV Yorkshire Calendar News tonight. It mentioned cuts to many evening and Sunday services from next month with more to come in October.

I don’t live in South Yorkshire, but in a village on a mainly rural route in Nottinghamshire. Having had to wait until I will be 66 to get my ENCTS pass, I have a feeling that just as I receive my bus pass in October, the bus service through the village will be drastically reduced or even axed completely.

It's been confirmed in most of the local papers, my local route the 32/32a has been pulled completely.. I think it's time that questions get asked to the Sheffield City Council controlled bus partnership, it's been propping Worst Sheffield up for too long

 

[RELL6L]

Stagecoach West Scotland service 101/102 between Edinburgh and Dumfries is to cease running in mid-August. (Source: VOSA)

Is that the whole of the routes? This is an hourly service between Edinburgh and Biggar with four journeys extending via two different routes to Dumfries. If Stagecoach pull out would someone else step in (with or without some funding) for the Edinburgh to Biggar section? I can't believe Dumfries and Galloway would subsidise anything north of say Moffat.

 

[DunsBus]

Is that the whole of the routes? This is an hourly service between Edinburgh and Biggar with four journeys extending via two different routes to Dumfries. If Stagecoach pull out would someone else step in (with or without some funding) for the Edinburgh to Biggar section? I can't believe Dumfries and Galloway would subsidise anything north of say Moffat.

Yes, the entire route is going though I understand talks are currently being held to maintain a service to Biggar.

A shame to see it go but this is what happens when you have a contract service passing through five local authority areas - Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scottish Borders, South Lanarkshire, Dumfries & Galloway - and one of them decides to stop the funding. I suspect that the writing was on the wall for the 101/102 after Scottish Borders significantly reduced its share of the funding a few years ago, and Covid has been the final nail in the coffin.

(Scottish Borders, South Lanarkshire and Dumfries & Galloway currently contribute towards the service, whilst Midlothian pays the departure fees from Edinburgh bus station.)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Yes, the entire route is going though I understand talks are currently being held to maintain a service to Biggar.

A shame to see it go but this is what happens when you have a contract service passing through five local authority areas - Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scottish Borders, South Lanarkshire, Dumfries & Galloway - and one of them decides to stop the funding. I suspect that the writing was on the wall for the 101/102 after Scottish Borders significantly reduced its share of the funding a few years ago, and Covid has been the final nail in the coffin.

(Scottish Borders, South Lanarkshire and Dumfries & Galloway currently contribute towards the service, whilst Midlothian pays the departure fees from Edinburgh bus station.)

Hopefully Borders Buses and Lothian are able to pick up what they can of it. This route never seems that quiet at the Edinburgh/Midlothian end so I’m a bit surprised it’s going completely. As you say the flaw is having a subsidised route passing through 5 council areas.

 

[duncanp]

Hopefully Borders Buses and Lothian are able to pick up what they can of it. This route never seems that quiet at the Edinburgh/Midlothian end so I’m a bit surprised it’s going completely. As you say the flaw is having a subsidised route passing through 5 council areas.

When I was last in Edinburgh I used this bus to travel to Flotterstone, in order to walk over the Pentland Hills to Balerno.

The bus (on a Saturday morning) was quite well used by walkers intending to visit the Pentland Hills Regional Park.

If the bus service was withdrawn, some villages along the A702 between Biggar and Hillend would be cut off from public transport completely

 

[geoffk]

There are local reports that Stagecoach plans to curtail service 9 Exeter - Lyme Regis at Seaton and the 4/4A Exeter - Honiton - Axminster all the way back to Cranbrook. It remains to be seen whether Devon County Council is able to pick up some or all of the sections of route left without a service.

 

[richw]

There are local reports that Stagecoach plans to curtail service 9 Exeter - Lyme Regis at Seaton and the 4/4A Exeter - Honiton - Axminster all the way back to Cranbrook. It remains to be seen whether Devon County Council is able to pick up some or all of the sections of route left without a service.

The 9A Seaton to Lyme Regis leg will be reStarted by local independent AVMT on 1 August. Frequency reduced compared to current stagecoach service though

 

[RELL6L]

There are local reports that Stagecoach plans to curtail service 9 Exeter - Lyme Regis at Seaton and the 4/4A Exeter - Honiton - Axminster all the way back to Cranbrook. It remains to be seen whether Devon County Council is able to pick up some or all of the sections of route left without a service.

Already discussed - see post 83 and Stagecoach South West thread. But keep reporting any local news here, cuts are bad news so won't be widely publicised!

The 9A Seaton to Lyme Regis leg will be restarted by local independent AVMT on 1 August. Frequency reduced compared to current stagecoach service though

Good news. AVMT have been innovative in the past, hopefully this will fit their model. They already run to Seaton from Axminster and they do school runs to Lyme Regis - presumably as a minimum they can offer something based around the school run. Any takers for the 4?

 

[richw]

Good news. AVMT have been innovative in the past, hopefully this will fit their model. They already run to Seaton from Axminster and they do school runs to Lyme Regis - presumably as a minimum they can offer something based around the school run.

I suspect a 2 hourly service could be done with one bus, from what I’ve seen it’s a reduced frequency compared to current. They only have older low value vehicles that aren’t going to take a big hit on the balance sheet for depreciation on the important figures.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

The 128 only ran about every two hours (with some extra weekday peak and Saturday journeys). The Bedford-Northampton section was very much in two separate sections - Lavendon-Bedford, whose residents looked towards Bedford, and Yardley Hastings to Northampton, whose residents looked towards Northampton. Outside of weekday peak and weekends, there were few passengers on the buses between Lavendon and Yardley Hastings.

These two sections were complimented by other services, 129 Northampton-Yardley-Olney-Newport and 130/1 Bedford-Lavendon-Olney-Newport and beyond. Together, the 128 and these routes offered approximately hourly service over each section. There were a few early and late journeys which ran as 129 from Northampton to Olney and the 130 from Olney to Bedford, and vice-versa, for historical operational reasons that we needn't go into here. There was also another local route, 133, from Bedford to Bromham Village, that went via Biddenham and then deep into Bromham, far from the 128 routeing on the A428.

So what changed? The character of the intermediate villages changed from the 60s to the 80s into affluent places with high car ownership and little need for buses. Education changes, particularly comprehensive schools and therefore common catchment areas, meant that Grammar School children no longer had bus passes to travel by service bus into the big town, but went in contract vehicles to village comprehensive schools. By a quirk of boundaries, Lavendon is in Buckinghamshire [but far in distance and character to Slough!] and in the Milton Keynes council area. The pull of the (then) new Milton Keynes employment and retail, both from Lavendon and the surrounding Beds and Northants villages meant that fewer journeys were being made to Bedford or Northampton.

In 1974 the 128 was operated mainly by crew operated Lodekkas (although some OMO VR types were also in use] and the journey from Bedford Bus Station to Northampton bus Station, via Bedford Midland Road Station took 59 minutes. Aside from the slightly longer route via Midland Road Station, the route followed the most direct road (A428) which was the main East-West commercial vehicle highway. It turned off into Yardley Hastings and Denton villages, both by-passed in early road improvements. It had to cross the narrow Bromham Bridge and encountered two roundabouts (Prebend St Bedford and Warrington Toll Bar), 2 or 3 sets of traffic lights and no traffic calming en-route. A pretty comfortable ride, as I recall.

Just look at it now - the 41 covers the 133,130/1 and 129 routes, and diverts via Biddenham, a serpentine route through Bromham Village and the long diversion via Olney and The Aspreys along bouncy rural roads. Yardley Hastings now is served from a by-pass stop and Little Houghton village has been by-passed without replacement. Denton is still gone round, even though it is extremely awkward with parked cars and narrow lanes. Bromham has been comprehensively by-passed, but the bus doesn't use most of that. How many roundabouts, traffic lights and traffic calming features now, traversed in a jerky, automatic bus being driven flat out to keep time, the passengers bounced around like peas in a pod? The overall journey time from Bedford to Northampton has increased to 1h25min. And we wonder why few want to use this bus nowadays?

Sadly, this scenario can be seen all over the country.

I agree
Also on the 41 is a VERY LONG 'Double Run' via Stagsden which more often than not results in...no custom there!
The Northampton to Peterborough X4 is another case in point. The through Journey here can now take not far off 3 Hours, about 1/3 of which is spent getting 'across' Corby via just about every Estate, Business Park and Educational institution (in term time)..

 

[RELL6L]

I suspect a 2 hourly service could be done with one bus, from what I’ve seen it’s a reduced frequency compared to current. They only have older low value vehicles that aren’t going to take a big hit on the balance sheet for depreciation on the important figures.

There’s a timetable in BusTimes, oddly numbered 378, 4-5 journeys Mon-Sat, roughly two hourly from 1 August.

 

[DunsBus]

When I was last in Edinburgh I used this bus to travel to Flotterstone, in order to walk over the Pentland Hills to Balerno.

The bus (on a Saturday morning) was quite well used by walkers intending to visit the Pentland Hills Regional Park.

If the bus service was withdrawn, some villages along the A702 between Biggar and Hillend would be cut off from public transport completely

I've been digging a little bit further on this. The cancellation for the 101/102 hasn't yet gone in to VOSA but as the last date of operation is scheduled to be 13th August, expect it to do so soon.
Basically, the situation is that the current contract expires then and it was SWEStrans' decision to withdraw support at the end of the contract. It then contacted SPT and Scottish Borders to see if they were willing to take over support, but after doing the sums both councils shared SWESTrans' view that supporting the services were no longer sustainable.

 

[Acfb]

I'm surprised they're cutting the whole 101/2 route TBH. Hopefully Borders buses will step in and retain the route between Biggar and Edinburgh.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There’s a timetable in BusTimes, oddly numbered 378, 4-5 journeys Mon-Sat, roughly two hourly from 1 August.

Dredging the memory banks…. I think there was some DCC supported service on a Summer Sunday operated by Red Bus Services (of Clyst) that ran out along the coast c.30 years ago - it might have been the 378?

 

[RELL6L]

I'm surprised they're cutting the whole 101/2 route TBH. Hopefully Borders buses will step in and retain the route between Biggar and Edinburgh.

I would think it would be easier for Stuart’s Coaches to extend their 91/191 from Lanark to Biggar to run through to Edinburgh if they have the resources and desire.

I think some further additions soon to follow are from Carousel Buses: 103 between Amersham and Rickmansworth and 40 between High Wycombe and Thame ☹️

 

[daodao]

The loss of many Sunday bus services in rural Monmouthshire would surely meet the OP's criteria, such as:

• 60 Newport-Monmouth
• 69 Chepstow-Monmouth
• 74 Newport-Chepstow
• 83 Abergavenny-Monmouth

There have been other withdrawals in South Wales that may have gone "under the radar", but which degrade bus service provision.

There are no longer any regular bus services from Ebbw Vale south of Cwm to Aberbeeg and beyond, so the only public transport from Ebbw Vale to the south is the train service, which doesn't stop between Ebbw Vale Parkway and Llanhilleth.

The Merthyr-Bargoed service 2 has been withdrawn, so most journeys on service 1 have been diverted via New Tredegar between Deri and Bargoed, adding 15 minutes to a 6 minute journey.

 

[D6130]

Does anyone know which routes in West Yorkshire are under threat?

 

[VioletEclipse]

When I was last in Edinburgh I used this bus to travel to Flotterstone, in order to walk over the Pentland Hills to Balerno.

The bus (on a Saturday morning) was quite well used by walkers intending to visit the Pentland Hills Regional Park.

If the bus service was withdrawn, some villages along the A702 between Biggar and Hillend would be cut off from public transport completely

Great points. I have also used these services a few times, almost used them for various things more than once and know of multiple people who find the 101 and 102 useful. This would make a big difference to many people, potentially isolating people who live along the route from social life if they can't or don't drive. It could also increase traffic congestion. Poor decision without there being an alternative for people who use it.

 

[GusB]

There is now a separate thread for discussing the Edinburgh to Biggar route. Please use this to avoid duplication. Thanks

The future of Edinburgh to Biggar Bus Services

It appears that the whole thing has been cancelled, unless new registrations appear:- Registration number Operator name Service number Start point Finish point PM0000008/539 Cancellation WESTERN BUSES LIMITED 102 (102, 102S) Dumfries Thornhill PM0000008/541 Cancellation WESTERN BUSES...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Big cuts to bus services in South Yorkshire, especially Sheffield, was the headline on ITV Yorkshire Calendar News tonight. It mentioned cuts to many evening and Sunday services from next month with more to come in October.

Isn't this down to no operator being willing to run the evening and Sunday services? Either way I can see Barnsley, Doncaster and even Rotherham Interchanges closing after the last daytime service has gone and if there is any evening and/or Sunday services left, these will probably run from a nearby bus stop instead. Meanwhile in Sheffield the Peak District services may suvive another winter but I can't see them running from the barely used Sheffield Interchange but from one of the nearby bus stops instead.

Does anyone know which routes in West Yorkshire are under threat?

I don't think there's any yet but its quite likely that the Todmorden and Hebden Bridge services could well be -although I could imagine seeing the 596 Blackshaw Head to Hebden Bridge and the 901A (Hebden Bridge to Cragg Vale) being merged into a single service, the 594 and 595 Crimsworth / Old Town services being merged together with the morning 598 and 599 journeys and again creating a single service out of those four. Whereas in Todmorden I can see the whole T network of services being completely revised with the T6/T8 (Mankinholes circular) being turned into part of the 59x series of services.

Although those routes which are at risk could well be merged together to try and cover as much as possible (as per my example above) or where duplications exist, probably reduce the number of journey's. Either way I can see quite a lot of evening services being canned, it would a shame to see the 2220 592 to Portsmouth being pulled (it even confuses the locals despite it also being a village in Calderdale and not just a city in Hampshire).

 

[SSmith2009]

TrentBarton are reportedly withdrawing a number of services in September

27 - passing to Notts+Derby
141 - complete withdrawal
1A and Spondon Flyer- suspended since November 2021 now withdrawn

 

[darloscott]

Isn't this down to no operator being willing to run the evening and Sunday services? Either way I can see Barnsley, Doncaster and even Rotherham Interchanges closing after the last daytime service has gone and if there is any evening and/or Sunday services left, these will probably run from a nearby bus stop instead. Meanwhile in Sheffield the Peak District services may suvive another winter but I can't see them running from the barely used Sheffield Interchange but from one of the nearby bus stops instead.


I don't think there's any yet but its quite likely that the Todmorden and Hebden Bridge services could well be -although I could imagine seeing the 596 Blackshaw Head to Hebden Bridge and the 901A (Hebden Bridge to Cragg Vale) being merged into a single service, the 594 and 595 Crimsworth / Old Town services being merged together with the morning 598 and 599 journeys and again creating a single service out of those four. Whereas in Todmorden I can see the whole T network of services being completely revised with the T6/T8 (Mankinholes circular) being turned into part of the 59x series of services.

Although those routes which are at risk could well be merged together to try and cover as much as possible (as per my example above) or where duplications exist, probably reduce the number of journey's. Either way I can see quite a lot of evening services being canned, it would a shame to see the 2220 592 to Portsmouth being pulled (it even confuses the locals despite it also being a village in Calderdale and not just a city in Hampshire).

I am not sure the fact that nobody wants to run them is quite right. Surely most companies would tender for it, even if you put a stupid price in?! Maybe nobody willing to do it at a decent price is what the PTE mean.

 

[RELL6L]

Isn't this down to no operator being willing to run the evening and Sunday services? Either way I can see Barnsley, Doncaster and even Rotherham Interchanges closing after the last daytime service has gone and if there is any evening and/or Sunday services left, these will probably run from a nearby bus stop instead. Meanwhile in Sheffield the Peak District services may suvive another winter but I can't see them running from the barely used Sheffield Interchange but from one of the nearby bus stops instead.


I don't think there's any yet but its quite likely that the Todmorden and Hebden Bridge services could well be -although I could imagine seeing the 596 Blackshaw Head to Hebden Bridge and the 901A (Hebden Bridge to Cragg Vale) being merged into a single service, the 594 and 595 Crimsworth / Old Town services being merged together with the morning 598 and 599 journeys and again creating a single service out of those four. Whereas in Todmorden I can see the whole T network of services being completely revised with the T6/T8 (Mankinholes circular) being turned into part of the 59x series of services.

Although those routes which are at risk could well be merged together to try and cover as much as possible (as per my example above) or where duplications exist, probably reduce the number of journey's. Either way I can see quite a lot of evening services being canned, it would a shame to see the 2220 592 to Portsmouth being pulled (it even confuses the locals despite it also being a village in Calderdale and not just a city in Hampshire).

I haven't seen anything proposed although I have no doubt that an area like Hebden Bridge is becoming less dependent on public transport as car ownership goes up with house prices. A lot of these routes to run together in practice, daytime the 595/596 run as one with three vehicles and the 597/8 run with one vehicle, in the evenings the 594, 596 and 901A run together with 2 vehicles. I would be surprised if anything was withdrawn (although the daytime 900/901 might be at risk and maybe the B3 from Keighley, although I doubt this would be withdrawn altogether) but these services might all be halved, reducing the daytime requirement from 4 vehicles to 2. Some were once integrated with the Halifax routes, I have seen a picture of an Olympian running through from Halifax to Heptonstall, it might have been numbered 591. Presumably First decided the local bits were not profitable. By the way if you get a chance do take the 596 at least as far as Heptonstall - its a lovely village - then you can walk back (don't try it the other way round!). Less familiar with the Todmorden locals, there are only 2 daytime buses on these.

As the OP I would reject the South Wales routes mentioned. Sunday cuts are a shame but not what I originally had in mind. The changes to the 1/2 Bargoed to Merthyr don't actually lose service anywhere, just make it take longer. The cancellation of the service south of Ebbw Vale, regrettable though it is, was not post-Covid, it was cut during Covid I think and never returned.

Changes to my table above in Devon but there's so much more possibly in the wings I'll wait before updating again!

 

[Typhoon]

Kent County Council (KCC) has published an update of services under threat with the addition of 25 commercial services it expects to be cut in the autumn. As the County's budget for subsidised services is being reduced by £2.2 million, it is unlikely it will be possible to support them. Of course, others may step in, maybe with a reduced frequency or be able to incorporate part of a route into their own, or merge routes but there can be no doubt that the Kent network will be substantially reduced by 2023.

Document: https://www.kent.gov.uk/__data/asse...72/Summary-of-the-changes-to-bus-services.pdf

 

[asw22]

Maybe we need to look at this differently and not be scared of the motorist.

For example, there are now many households with 2, 3, 4 or even 5 cars, sometimes more cars than people.
A windfall tax or maybe increased road tax for households with 2 or more cars to make people think about the damage that they are doing to the environment and plough some of that money back into public transport.

Because at the minute I can only see a future where buses run a limited service from 7 to 7 Mon to Sat in urban areas only.

But then politicians won't want to upset the motorist.

 

[Dai Corner]

Maybe we need to look at this differently and not be scared of the motorist.

For example, there are now many households with 2, 3, 4 or even 5 cars, sometimes more cars than people.
A windfall tax or maybe increased road tax for households with 2 or more cars to make people think about the damage that they are doing to the environment and plough some of that money back into public transport.

Because at the minute I can only see a future where buses run a limited service from 7 to 7 Mon to Sat in urban areas only.

But then politicians won't want to upset the motorist.

I've got two cars to myself but obviously I can only drive one of them at a time. How does that cause more environmental damage than using the same one all the time?

By the way, I live in an urban area and only have a scheduled bus service between 7am-7pm Mon-Sat with nothing on Sundays.

 

[Ken H]

Maybe we need to look at this differently and not be scared of the motorist.

For example, there are now many households with 2, 3, 4 or even 5 cars, sometimes more cars than people.
A windfall tax or maybe increased road tax for households with 2 or more cars to make people think about the damage that they are doing to the environment and plough some of that money back into public transport.

Because at the minute I can only see a future where buses run a limited service from 7 to 7 Mon to Sat in urban areas only.

But then politicians won't want to upset the motorist.

What about households where there are adult kids at home? My daughters household has 4 cars ,1 electric (husbands company car), rest ICE. Kids cars are quite old. Few buses where they live and both kids have to drive to work.
And they have a campervan they use occasionally.
Eldest grand-daughter also has a b/f who lives a bit away and would involve 2 infrequent buses but its a 20 minute drive.
Who does without a car?