Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid

[SeveerYeliab]

Stagecoach are now also reporting that service 84 will be saved, running the same hourly frequency as currently just only off peak now. It looks to run off service 12, now that the Sholden shorts on the 80 are gone.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Continuation of 82 route and new 84 route time table

From Monday 31 October, the 82 route serving Deal and Walmer will continue to operate under a new timetable in partnership with Kent County Council.

The service will run every 90 minutes, Monday to Saturday.


The 84 route service in Deal will run with a new hourly timetable during
off-peak times, Monday to Friday.




Please follow @StagecoachSE on Twitter for regular service updates.

 

[Deerfold]

All's gone quiet on Cambridgeshire, but it seems quite a bit has been saved (though bustimes is confused showing Stagecoach as running various services from next week that it isn't).

Stagecoach are continuing to run some services, with quite a few, largely based on Newmarket, passing to Stephensons of Essex.

Newmarket and Cambridge Services! – Stephensons

stephensonsofessex.com

NEWS RELEASE

BUS SERVICES SAVED!

Local independent bus operator Stephensons, which runs services between Haverhill and Bury, and from Bury to Mildenhall and Newmarket, has announced that it will be stepping in to save the following bus services:

Service 8A – March to Cottenham
Service 9A – Ely Circular via City Centre
Service 11 – Newmarket to Cambridge via Stow cum Quy
Service 12 – Newmarket to Cambridge, fast service via Bottisham
Service 12A – Newmarket Circular
Service 112 (formerly 12) – Newmarket to Ely via Soham
Service X16 – Newmarket to Bury St Edmunds
Our full guide (with maps) to our new services in Newmarket & Cambridge is available here

East Bus Network

www.stagecoachbus.com

Citi 4

UPDATE: Maintains current route and timetable between Cambourne and Cambridge via Hardwick and Caldecote turns.


NEW 5A

UPDATE- A new rural service operating in a loop around Longstanton, Swavesey, Willingham and Over
Map


25

UPDATE- The service will operate on a new route between Babraham and Trumpington Park & Ride sites via Trumpington and the Biomedical Campus. No longer serves Long Road or Trumpington High Street.

I can't find anywhere with a comprehensive list, though.

 

[Typhoon]

Oh dear me... "substantial", "cut off", "significant"... is this not overegging the pudding somewhat?

In contrast to Stagecoach East, Stagecoach South East have made deliberate attempts to keep as much of the network going as possible - see e.g. route 64, mopping up a whole host of Dover Town pieces previously attached to other routes. Whole route withdrawals are fairly minor, and whilst there have been some frequency changes, these are mainly reducing the frequency to areas that in better times have probably been over-bussed down to something more like what the passenger numbers deserve, if not historical norm. Obviously that's no help if you live there, but it's hardly going from a half-hourly service down to nothing.

Even in Deal, service 83 is a back-roads service to areas that will still have main road services, and Sandown is about 3/4 mile at it's furthest point from a random spot in the town centre, maybe a mile to the bus stops at South Street which, as the name suggests, are in the very south of the town. Service 84 takes 18 minutes to do the round trip to South Street. Again, it won't be suitable for everyone, but that's the sort of distance you walk a dog twice a day.

A bit harsh?

In #384 @RELL6L posted that Stagecoach had announced significant cuts to their operations out of Dover (not totally surprising given the cancellations regularly announced to journeys in the area). It included the withdrawal of all Deal locals. Since then, an arrangement has been made to provide some service in posts #389 and #391. Surely it is right that the original post is updated, and it be noted that the people of the town will have some form of local service? I have very limited knowledge of travelling on Deal locals (one journey late on a Saturday afternoon - hardly peak time) so have no idea of the demand but it is quite possible that this is the sort of frequency that can be sustained. Certainly, I could survive with that sort of regime, straight into the shop, shopping list in hand, I would be out with enough time to browse in the market/ visit the library/ go to the chemist or whatever ready for the trip home. Residents will have some service, they have been given a warning of the future, 'use it or lose it'.

Although the title of this thread appears negative, we need to report good news as well as bad, where there has been a reprieve in whole or in part, where another operator takes over a route or part of a route that has been axed, where a council puts on some alternative provision (such as demand responsive) so that those who don't know the area have some feel that 'something is being done'. On that point Regent are taking over Dover local 68, which had been threatened with demise, and Kent County Council (KCC) are postponing the end of those subsidised services they had threatened to cut until February. This will give time for local councils to consider bidding for a pot of money KCC have set aside for running limited local or community services (possibly along the lines of those that have been successful in neighbouring East Sussex). I see it as a question of steering somewhere between what was there before, and the type of service seen in some shire counties - minimal!

I do agree that some people are expecting too much, just today there is a story on Kent online https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/...l-be-cut-off-as-vital-bus-routes-axed-276071/. They are not being 'cut off', they will have a half-hourly service, they will have to change buses (which they can do before getting into Dover). And River is not a village, it is effectively a suburb of Dover, it has shops, including a chemist. My concern is for those who may lose all services.

Regarding Stagecoach East, I have zero experience of their routes so commenting would be futile but there appears to be more good news in #392.

 

[RELL6L]

I agree that the cuts in Kent have not been as great as those in Stagecoach East or probably the rural services in Devon. This is tempered by the differing attitudes of the local authorities with Kent making little attempt to improve things- and cutting existing subsidised services - in contrast to other councils such as Cambridgeshire, Devon and also Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and Nexus which have perhaps gone less reported. I am pleased that some service on the Deal 84 looks to survive as well as a much reduced 82 but there are still some substantive cuts.

I would love to start a thread on substantive new and improved services but it would be fairly short. A few s106 funded services and DRT which will - sadly - probably wither on the vine when the money runs out.

 

[duncanp]

Somewhat ominously, there is a review of services in Surrey.

The wording of the "consultation" makes it pretty clear that cuts in services are on the cards.

Future bus network review

We are reviewing our Surrey bus network to ensure it is ready to meet new levels of passenger demand and is financially sustainable post-COVID19.

www.surreycc.gov.uk

Future bus network review​

Travelling around Surrey: Have your say on the 'Future Bus Network Review'​

Overview​

We want your help to ensure that our Future Bus Network is ready to meet new levels of passenger demand and is financially sustainable.
The bus industry is facing challenging operating conditions, resulting from changed travel patterns and passenger numbers not returning to pre-pandemic levels. Before the COVID-19 pandemic, 27 million passenger trips were made each year on Surrey buses. The figure is now 18 million passenger trips. This coupled with the impact of rising fuel and maintenance costs, as well as increased competition for drivers, means that bus operators need to consider what services they operate as the money Surrey County Council spends on supporting bus services cannot buy the same as it used to.
We want your help to shape what that Future Bus Network will look like by giving us your views on our proposals for:

• Bus route and supporting infrastructure investment,
• Maintaining or changing bus services where relevant to increase patronage or better reflect existing patronage, and
• Expanding the number of Digital Demand Responsive Transport (DDRT) services for a more flexible transport offer to residents.

To help shape the Future Bus Network, we are running a public consultation from Thursday, 3 November 2022 to Friday, 6 January 2023.

How to have your say​

• Complete the online survey. The survey is compatible with speech recognition software and screen readers.
• Complete the hard copy survey. This is available in libraries, local council offices and on buses in affected areas of Surrey.
• Request for a hard copy survey to be sent directly to you in either the standard, Easy Read or Large Print format:

Call: 0300 200 1003
SMS text: 07860 053 465 or 07527 182 861 (for the deaf or hard of hearing)
Textphone (via Text Relay): 18001 0300 200 1005
VRS: Sign Language Video Relay Service
The final proposals that are drawn up following the consultation will be considered by Surrey County Council's executive decision-making body (Cabinet) in early 2023. Any agreed changes to bus services will be communicated to residents and stakeholders from June 2023, with the changes coming into effect from early September 2023. Please check www.surreycc.gov.uk/transportconsultations for consultation updates.

 

[LUYMun]

Somewhat ominously, there is a review of services in Surrey.

The wording of the "consultation" makes it pretty clear that cuts in services are on the cards.

Future bus network review

We are reviewing our Surrey bus network to ensure it is ready to meet new levels of passenger demand and is financially sustainable post-COVID19.

www.surreycc.gov.uk

Of course, the consultation is a plan to convert many of Surrey CC supported routes into several DDRT (Digital Demand Responsive Transport) schemes. So many layers of wrong here...

 

[Murray J]

Surrey bus network review

Surrey County Council (SCC) are proposing to review the local bus network next year due to increased operating costs against a drop of nine million passenger journeys (18 million down from 27 milli…

handsbusblog.wordpress.com

mentioned in this post is a list of proposals put forward by SCC:

• 3: Guildford to Bellfields (Safeguard) – Reduced from every 20 mins to every 30 mins.
• E9: Epsom to Clarendon Park (Metrobus) – Evening service after 1900 halved in frequency from hourly to two-hourly.
• E10: Epsom to Noble Park (Metrobus) – Evening service after 1900 halved in frequency from hourly to two-hourly.
• 17: Guildford to Fairlands (Stagecoach) – Combine with 520 or replace both with DRT.
• 22: Holmbury St Mary to Crawley (Metrobus) – 0733/0743 (SD/SH) Dorking to Crawley to be withdrawn north of Charlwood.
• 32: Guildford to Redhill (Compass) – Holmbury St Mary and Abinger Ham journeymer journeys to run normal route avoiding those locations, and Emlyn Road in Earlswood reduced to three journeys per day.
• 41: Frimley Park Hospital to Ash (Stagecoach) – Operated in partnership with Hampshire County Council, potential to be replaced by DRT.
• 42: Guildford to Cranleigh (Compass) – Potential for college journeys to be retained but removed from Catteshall, with rest of route to be replaced by DRT.
• 65: Guildford to Alton (Stagecoach) – Halved from hourly to two-hourly (so using one bus instead of current two).
• 70: Guildford to Midhurst (Stagecoach) – Withdraw 0608 Haslemere to Midhurst journey.
• 71: Guildford to Woolmer Hill (Stagecoach) – Withdraw 0549 Chiddingfold to Guildford, 2025 Guildford to Shottermill and 2126 Shottermill to Godalming journeys.
• 100: Redhill to Maidenbower (Metrobus) – Reduce the overnight service until patronage improves.
• 281: Crawley to Lingfield (Metrobus) – Withdraw between Stone Quarry and Lingfield but retain journeys for schools.
• 409: East Grinstead to Selsdon (Southdown) – Replace the Sunday service with the Tandridge DRT operation.
• 430/435: Merstham to East Surrey Hospital (Metrobus) – Sunday frequency reduced from hourly to every 90 mins on each route (I believe this would require two rather than three vehicles).
• 457: St Peter’s Hospital to New Haw circular (Runnymede Community Transport) – Incorporate into revised 592/3 (see below).
• 503: Guildford to Hambledon (Stagecoach) – Replace with DRT.
• 504: Shottermill to Beacon Hill (Waverley Hoppa) – Replace with DRT.
• 505: Shottermill to Northchapel (Waverley Hoppa) – Replace with DRT.
• 520: Aldershot to Guildford/Woking (Stagecoach) – Combine with 17 or replace both with DRT.
• 523: Guildford to Milford Hospital (Stagecoach) – Replace with DRT.
• 525: Cranleigh to Albury (Carlone) – Replace with DRT.
• 533: Ranmore Common to Dorking/Ewhurst (Carlone) – Replace with DRT.
• 538: Stoughton to Burpham Sainsbury’s (Stagecoach) – Replace with DRT.
• 545: Guildford to Walliswood (Carlone) – Remove from Sutton Abinger and Holmbury St Mary or replace with DRT.
• 592: Woking to Addlestone (Carlone) – Combine with routes 457 and 593.
• 593: Woking to Lyne/Staines (Carlone) – Combine with routes 457 and 592, and withdraw the Brooklands section.
• 599: Guildford to Holmbury St Mary (Carlone) – Remove from Sutton Abinger and Holmbury St Mary or replace with DRT.
• 715: Guildford to Kingston (Stagecoach) – Withdraw Monday to Saturday 0629 Cobham to Guildford and the last evening journeys.

 

[Simon75]

Isn't Greenline 757 from London Victoria to Luton Airport, still reduced?

 

[leytongabriel]

Haven't scanned all through so aoplogies if previously posted, but Stagecoach bus cuts are being reported in Gloucestershire with the County Council possibly taking action against them.

 

[RELL6L]

The Surrey cuts in post 397 are a shame but generally not that dramatic. The loss of the 42, apart from college journeys, would cut off a fair area of rural hinterland which currently has a reasonable service - apart from the dreaded DRT. The other services cut, especially those in the 500s, are mostly fairly infrequent anyway.

Stagecoach in Gloucester (post 399) is interesting, with the 24 between Cinderford and Chepstow being the biggest loss. These services are tendered and the Stagecoach website says, rather defensively, "This change was communicated to Gloucestershire County in August 2022 to allow them the required time to re-tender their contracted routes." I don't know if they are allowed to do that under their contractual terms. I hope the 24 down through the Soudley Valley is replaced, this is a very attractive rural backwater, the 24 is also the only service from Lydney to Chepstow.

Pleasing to report some positives.

Borders Buses improving the X62 substantially between Peebles and Edinburgh - basically doubling the service. See Borders thread.

First in Portsmouth increasing services: "With funding from Portsmouth City Council, we will be improving a number of our timetables in Portsmouth from Sunday 4 December 2022. "
Improvements to services 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 18, improvements being additional morning services and some additional evening services on Fridays and Saturdays.

Makes a change from the unremitting gloom!

Looks like Connexions are planning to withdraw their route 412 between York and Wetherby in December. Would cut off a few villages as well as the connection between Wetherby and York.

Village near York set to lose 'lifeline' bus service

A ‘lifeline’ bus route between York and Wetherby is set to be withdrawn, leaving Rufforth with no services whatsoever.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

Operator Connexion plans to withdraw its 412 service from December 10 as it is losing money.
Withdrawing the service will also hit the fast-growing village of Tockwith, which also contains many elderly needing such a service.
Managing director Craig Temple says the route is one of the biggest lossmakers his company operates and says City of York Council must do more to help.

Not sure whether York are prepared to help - perhaps more receptive than if it was North Yorkshire?

 

[DunsBus]

The Surrey cuts in post 397 are a shame but generally not that dramatic. The loss of the 42, apart from college journeys, would cut off a fair area of rural hinterland which currently has a reasonable service - apart from the dreaded DRT. The other services cut, especially those in the 500s, are mostly fairly infrequent anyway.

Stagecoach in Gloucester (post 399) is interesting, with the 24 between Cinderford and Chepstow being the biggest loss. These services are tendered and the Stagecoach website says, rather defensively, "This change was communicated to Gloucestershire County in August 2022 to allow them the required time to re-tender their contracted routes." I don't know if they are allowed to do that under their contractual terms. I hope the 24 down through the Soudley Valley is replaced, this is a very attractive rural backwater, the 24 is also the only service from Lydney to Chepstow.

Pleasing to report some positives.

Borders Buses improving the X62 substantially between Peebles and Edinburgh - basically doubling the service. See Borders thread.

First in Portsmouth increasing services: "With funding from Portsmouth City Council, we will be improving a number of our timetables in Portsmouth from Sunday 4 December 2022. "
Improvements to services 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 18, improvements being additional morning services and some additional evening services on Fridays and Saturdays.

Makes a change from the unremitting gloom!

Looks like Connexions are planning to withdraw their route 412 between York and Wetherby in December. Would cut off a few villages as well as the connection between Wetherby and York.

Village near York set to lose 'lifeline' bus service

A ‘lifeline’ bus route between York and Wetherby is set to be withdrawn, leaving Rufforth with no services whatsoever.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

Operator Connexion plans to withdraw its 412 service from December 10 as it is losing money.
Withdrawing the service will also hit the fast-growing village of Tockwith, which also contains many elderly needing such a service.
Managing director Craig Temple says the route is one of the biggest lossmakers his company operates and says City of York Council must do more to help.

Not sure whether York are prepared to help - perhaps more receptive than if it was North Yorkshire?

Another Borders Buses service change concerns the 60. From 28th November the last departure from Galashiels is at 5.10pm on Mondays to Saturdays, and from Berwick at 5.05pm all week.

 

[SCH117X]

Looks like Connexions are planning to withdraw their route 412 between York and Wetherby in December. Would cut off a few villages as well as the connection between Wetherby and York.

North Yorkshire County Council themselves operate a couple of journeys - 0747 York Rail Station - Wetherby and 1725 return. Now if Transdev were to register the service suddenly no doubt Connexions would decide to continue, running 5 minutes in front. Not sure if North Yorkshire would come up with any funding as their are reports that thye are looking to cut the funding of the Ripon - Northallerton service 70 which only recently has been taken on by Reliance after being operated for many years by Dales & District.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

North Yorkshire County Council themselves operate a couple of journeys - 0747 York Rail Station - Wetherby and 1725 return. Now if Transdev were to register the service suddenly no doubt Connexions would decide to continue, running 5 minutes in front. Not sure if North Yorkshire would come up with any funding as their are reports that thye are looking to cut the funding of the Ripon - Northallerton service 70 which only recently has been taken on Reliance after being opeated for many years by Dales & District.

I somehow doubt that Connexions would register in front of a Transdev service (were that to happen)... Think they would happily see Alex Hornby burn through some cash. It was always a marginal service at best and nowadays, I can imagine they are losing a fair sum.

I can see North Yorkshire saying that it needs Metro and City of York to come to the table or else it will be another council minibus job or even DRT.

 

[Andyh82]

The 412 is a one bus service even with school time gaps so the bus can do a school run elsewhere, so it’s not as if a great amount of resources are being deployed.

 

[SCH117X]

I can see North Yorkshire saying that it needs Metro and City of York to come to the table or else it will be another council minibus job or even DRT.

More so City of York, as the York to Rufforth section lies within their jurisdiction, than Metro where its only Wetherby Racecourse to Wetherby. There is a planned new town/village - "Maltkiln", said to be the size of Thirsk, centered on Cattal railway station but parts away from the railway station would presumably benefit from a bus service which could also serve Tockwith; a Knaresborough - York service for example via the new town, Tockwith and Rufforth.

 

[Keith Jarrett]

The 312 was split off the 12 route and operated as a 2 hourly service. It has since been operated by Coastal Coaches who sold out to Stagecoach, then Renown Coaches who went bust before Stagecoach took it over again. It has been extended before to Rye Harbour before being cut back to Rye station. It also incorporates the school bus service to Houghton Green Primary school and interworks with the 313 service.

There's less interworking between the 312 and 313 since the end October changes. But add into the mix, interworking between the 312 and the 29 (southern end of the old 2) at Tenterden. And some 313 journeys now seem to interwork with the Northiam shorts on the 29. And all journeys to Rye Harbour are on route 313, even if the bus arrives in Rye on a 312 and goes back north on a 312!

 

[paul1609]

There's less interworking between the 312 and 313 since the end October changes. But add into the mix, interworking between the 312 and the 29 (southern end of the old 2) at Tenterden. And some 313 journeys now seem to interwork with the Northiam shorts on the 29. And all journeys to Rye Harbour are on route 313, even if the bus arrives in Rye on a 312 and goes back north on a 312!

The Rye Harbour changing to 313 predates the current changes by a couple of years.
One advantage of the 312/29 interworking is us 312 residents now get a "late" bus at 17.00 ish on Saturdays.
The 29 service between Rolvenden and Northiam accross the county border looks dire especially when you consider a few years ago it was a commercial service between Canterbury and Brighton.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The 412 is a one bus service even with school time gaps so the bus can do a school run elsewhere, so it’s not as if a great amount of resources are being deployed.

I cannot see why Connextions simply don't replace the 412 with an extended 923, which would introduce a core Otley to York service using two buses (as the 923 is also a single bus service). This would mean folk in Otley could go to York and those in Tockwith could go to Otley which may rejuvinate the service and as it would be one service covering three authorities (Leeds/Metro, North Yorkshire and City of York) then there should be at least some funding to keep the service in any way, shape or form going without it losing too much.

 

[markymark2000]

I cannot see why Connextions simply don't replace the 412 with an extended 923, which would introduce a core Otley to York service using two buses (as the 923 is also a single bus service). This would mean folk in Otley could go to York and those in Tockwith could go to Otley which may rejuvinate the service and as it would be one service covering three authorities (Leeds/Metro, North Yorkshire and City of York) then there should be at least some funding to keep the service in any way, shape or form going without it losing too much.

Firstly, how many people are going to travel on a bus for 90 minutes to go shopping. That very rarely happens at all. Most people tend to set their maximum journey time at 40 odd minutes, stretching to an hour if absolutely needed. Very few people travel longer than that.

On face value, it seems like a good idea to introduce longer distance links through rural areas to maximise the potential but sadly it won't work. You can add to that, part of the issue why this route is going is because of concessionary pass reimbursement. Having a longer through route hinders the pass reimbursement as people travel further on a single tap.

Quote from Mr Temple the MD of Connexions, posted in the York Press (https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/23122822.connexion-set-axe-412-york-wetherby-route/)

Part of the problem, Mr Temple explained, is that the money operators get for concessionary fares is “too low”, a problem exacerbated by the large number of elderly and other such passengers using the 412 route.

Another quote from Mr Temple, this time from the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-63243763)

He said concessionary passes have also hit the company's finances, as Connexions gets £1.56 for a return journey between York and Wetherby from a bus pass user, compared to £7.50 for a full fare.

This reimbursement seems low but this puts it at 78p per tap. The 412 is 45 mins each way and so to make that viable, you are going to need at least 50 odd conc passes PER TRIP to make this cover it's costs.

 

[SCH117X]

This reimbursement seems low but this puts it at 78p per tap.

Probably right as North Yorkshire County Council are known to pay a minimal rate for concessionary users. Neither Transdev or Connexions could make the direct X54 Harrogate-York service pay its way as the typically quite full buses were largely, if not entirely, occupied by concession pass holders.

 

[Busaholic]

I cannot see why Connextions simply don't replace the 412 with an extended 923, which would introduce a core Otley to York service using two buses (as the 923 is also a single bus service). This would mean folk in Otley could go to York and those in Tockwith could go to Otley which may rejuvinate the service and as it would be one service covering three authorities (Leeds/Metro, North Yorkshire and City of York) then there should be at least some funding to keep the service in any way, shape or form going without it losing too much.

It's precisely that sort of apparently logical thinking that probably mitigates against it, unfortunately. Getting authorities to work together for a common goal is something now almost completely lost in the U.K.; very sad.

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't Greenline 757 from London Victoria to Luton Airport, still reduced?

Yes, pre Covid this was every 15 minutes for nick of the day, hourly overnight. Now it's roughly hourly through the day with no overnight service.

 

[markymark2000]

Yes, pre Covid this was every 15 minutes for nick of the day, hourly overnight. Now it's roughly hourly through the day with no overnight service.

The 757 does have an overnight service but it is mostly towards Luton. Towards London isn't as good. Departing Green Line Coach Station at 00:00, 00:30, 01:00, 02:00, 03:40, 05:40. Departing Luton Airport at 00:05, 01:35, 04:05, 05:05.

The frequency is also increased at peak times with some parts of the day now being half hourly.


I do wonder what is keeping Greenlines frequency low. Is it low patronage or lack of drivers?

 

[GusB]

It's time to bring this thread to a close. The pandemic, while it had a major effect on many bus services, is not the same "monster" as it appeared to be two years ago. The thread has become a bit of a general discussion for any service cuts, no matter what the reason, and there is potential for matters to be discussed both here and in the individual threads that we have for specific operators; we'd rather try to avoid that!

If anyone wishes to discuss an individual operator's service cuts, there's probably a thread for it somewhere. If not, please feel free to start a new thread, but do please use the forum search facility beforehand. If there is an existing thread and it has "auto closed" due to inactivity, please report the last post in that thread and we will consider re-opening it.

Thanks to all who have contributed.