Capvermell
On Moderation
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 348
Can anyone here please try and explain to me on what possible insane basis of total immorality or illogic Southern Railway refuses to offer Super Off-Peak Travelcards and only offers more expensive Off-Peak Travelcards (who's only advantage is that they can be used half an hour earlier in the morning and don't have a late afternoon/early evening travel blackout period) from the first few stations outside London where Super Off-Peak day single and return fares are still available?
So taking my local line the last station travelling to London Victoria from which a Super Off-Peak ordinary Single or Return fare (rather than only a more expensive Off Peak return fare) is available is Holmwood (about 27 miles from Victoria one stop south of Dorking) but the first station going out of London from which a cheaper Super Off-Peak rather than an Off-Peak Travelcard is available is Horsham (around 9 miles south of Holmwood)
This has the crazy consequence that the cheapest Travelcard ticket available from Warnham station is the Off-Peak Travelcard costing £25.00 but the cheapest Travelcard available from Horsham station some four miles further south of Warnham and further away from London Victoria is the Super Off-Peak Travelcard costing only £21.80.
I understand the basic principle that Southern only offers Super Off-Peak fares with less favourable time restrictions at stations somewhat further out of London than stations like Leatherhead and Dorking (as this is designed to make the cost of the journey affordable for occasional leisure travellers to London from further out) but I don't understand any possible logic that explains why at the first three stations moving out of London on my line where Super Off-Peak return tickets are made available that there is no counterpart Super Off-Peak Travelcard product (presumably this situation is also replicated at all other Southern Rail stations between approximately 25 miles and 35 miles away from a Central London terminus?).
The upshot of this crazy situation is that unless you have a Network card or other railcard that can discount the cost of the Off-Peak Travelcard by one third that it is almost never worth buying an Off Peak Travel card and instead you are better off to only buy a Super Off-Peak return ticket and then use either Oyster or a Contactless credit card to cover bus and tube journeys in Central London.
I have tried posing this question to senior level with Southern before (both by email and going to Meet The Managers sessions) but as with Southern not offering any multi day carnet tickets on their Key Smartcard all one gets is a smug grin and a shrug of the shoulders. Yet it makes no sense as a marketing proposition and simply isn't logical or fair in any way. So does anyone have any thoughts on why Southern do this and why they won't offer a Super Off-Peak Travelcard from all stations where Super Off-Peak single and return tickets are also available???
Taking another shade of the same strange illogic in Southern's fare systems when travelling from Holmwood or Ockley stations the cheapest day return ticket (the Super Off Peak ticket) at £9.80 is only valid to London Victoria only and not to any other London terminus and only the £14.60 Off-Peak return is valid to Thameslink line Central London stations. But travelling from Horley station, almost exactly the same distance out of London as Ockley station, but on the parallel Gatwick line, the £9.80 Super Off Peak ticket does actually allow you to terminate your journey at any of the Thameslink stations such as Blackfriars, City Thameslink and St Pancras Thameslink but not at say London Liverpool Street where an even more expensive £17.00 Off-Peak ticket is required (probably because the journey also requires travelling on the Underground). Presumably this comes out of the fact that the Thameslink line stations are not operated by Southern and so the operators of those stations choose to price journeys to their London terminus stations on their trains from stations also served by Southern at the same cost as a journey terminating at London Victoria?
But these are all further indications that the fares system does not seem at all sane or logical in terms of how it operates. The whole situation only seems to exist because Southern's predecessors (either British Rail or Connex or was it South West Trains as it happened even before I moved here in 1996) discontinued the once a day direct services from Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham to London Bridge some years ago. But because Horley also has direct services to London Victoria as well as London Bridge (latter not operated by Southern but by Thameslink) someone has taken a decision that both termini should enjoy access to the Super Off Peak ticket price.
Its therefore probably no wonder that Southern has reduced the number of Meet The Managers sessions it holds, absolutely refuses to have any emailing list to email customers to remind them of these sessions happening, holds most of them in the early morning when peak hour fares apply and only gives dates of any out of London Meet The Manager occasional evening sessions at the last possible minute while never also providing any way to be auto emailed about them taking place. There is also now no available email address for the CEO of Southern on the www.ceoemail.com but until not long ago there used to be such an address for Charles Horton......
So taking my local line the last station travelling to London Victoria from which a Super Off-Peak ordinary Single or Return fare (rather than only a more expensive Off Peak return fare) is available is Holmwood (about 27 miles from Victoria one stop south of Dorking) but the first station going out of London from which a cheaper Super Off-Peak rather than an Off-Peak Travelcard is available is Horsham (around 9 miles south of Holmwood)
This has the crazy consequence that the cheapest Travelcard ticket available from Warnham station is the Off-Peak Travelcard costing £25.00 but the cheapest Travelcard available from Horsham station some four miles further south of Warnham and further away from London Victoria is the Super Off-Peak Travelcard costing only £21.80.
I understand the basic principle that Southern only offers Super Off-Peak fares with less favourable time restrictions at stations somewhat further out of London than stations like Leatherhead and Dorking (as this is designed to make the cost of the journey affordable for occasional leisure travellers to London from further out) but I don't understand any possible logic that explains why at the first three stations moving out of London on my line where Super Off-Peak return tickets are made available that there is no counterpart Super Off-Peak Travelcard product (presumably this situation is also replicated at all other Southern Rail stations between approximately 25 miles and 35 miles away from a Central London terminus?).
The upshot of this crazy situation is that unless you have a Network card or other railcard that can discount the cost of the Off-Peak Travelcard by one third that it is almost never worth buying an Off Peak Travel card and instead you are better off to only buy a Super Off-Peak return ticket and then use either Oyster or a Contactless credit card to cover bus and tube journeys in Central London.
I have tried posing this question to senior level with Southern before (both by email and going to Meet The Managers sessions) but as with Southern not offering any multi day carnet tickets on their Key Smartcard all one gets is a smug grin and a shrug of the shoulders. Yet it makes no sense as a marketing proposition and simply isn't logical or fair in any way. So does anyone have any thoughts on why Southern do this and why they won't offer a Super Off-Peak Travelcard from all stations where Super Off-Peak single and return tickets are also available???
Taking another shade of the same strange illogic in Southern's fare systems when travelling from Holmwood or Ockley stations the cheapest day return ticket (the Super Off Peak ticket) at £9.80 is only valid to London Victoria only and not to any other London terminus and only the £14.60 Off-Peak return is valid to Thameslink line Central London stations. But travelling from Horley station, almost exactly the same distance out of London as Ockley station, but on the parallel Gatwick line, the £9.80 Super Off Peak ticket does actually allow you to terminate your journey at any of the Thameslink stations such as Blackfriars, City Thameslink and St Pancras Thameslink but not at say London Liverpool Street where an even more expensive £17.00 Off-Peak ticket is required (probably because the journey also requires travelling on the Underground). Presumably this comes out of the fact that the Thameslink line stations are not operated by Southern and so the operators of those stations choose to price journeys to their London terminus stations on their trains from stations also served by Southern at the same cost as a journey terminating at London Victoria?
But these are all further indications that the fares system does not seem at all sane or logical in terms of how it operates. The whole situation only seems to exist because Southern's predecessors (either British Rail or Connex or was it South West Trains as it happened even before I moved here in 1996) discontinued the once a day direct services from Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham to London Bridge some years ago. But because Horley also has direct services to London Victoria as well as London Bridge (latter not operated by Southern but by Thameslink) someone has taken a decision that both termini should enjoy access to the Super Off Peak ticket price.
Its therefore probably no wonder that Southern has reduced the number of Meet The Managers sessions it holds, absolutely refuses to have any emailing list to email customers to remind them of these sessions happening, holds most of them in the early morning when peak hour fares apply and only gives dates of any out of London Meet The Manager occasional evening sessions at the last possible minute while never also providing any way to be auto emailed about them taking place. There is also now no available email address for the CEO of Southern on the www.ceoemail.com but until not long ago there used to be such an address for Charles Horton......
Last edited: