"Swanline" 143s?

[61653 HTAFC]

Back in the 1980s, the "Swanline" local services between Swansea and Cardiff were launched, with 3(?) class 143 units funded and owned by a consortium of local authorities, which were each named after breeds of swan.

These units no longer carry their names, and AFAIK are no longer owned by the aforementioned consortium, so a few questions arise:
1. Which units were the original Swanline units?
2. Presumably the units are now owned by Porterbrook along with the rest of the Alexander Pacers, but how and when was this ownership transferred? Did it happen at privatisation or was it enforced later like the 144 MS vehicles and 155s of West Yorkshire?
3. I've heard talk of some 143s being the property of the GW Franchise- are these the same units or a separate group?

Hopefully someone will have the answers!

 

[superalbs]

I read somewhere that the three GWR units with the slightly refurbished interior were the ones owned by local authorities, presumably from this service.

143617, 143618, 143619 they are. Not sure if that's true though.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I read somewhere that the three GWR units with the slightly refurbished interior were the ones owned by local authorities, presumably from this service.

143617, 143618, 143619 they are. Not sure if that's true though.

If that's the case and the 3 units in each case are the same units, how did they end up belonging to the GW franchise rather than Wales & Borders, which would seem more logical?

 

[pdeaves]

If that's the case and the 3 units in each case are the same units, how did they end up belonging to the GW franchise rather than Wales & Borders, which would seem more logical?

They don't belong to the GW franchise, they belong to First Group (as do some HST power cars, incidentally). How did this happen? I rather suspect the authority put them up for sale and First made the best offer!

 

[Darandio]

They don't belong to the GW franchise, they belong to First Group (as do some HST power cars, incidentally). How did this happen? I rather suspect the authority put them up for sale and First made the best offer!

Since when? The last I saw, Porterbrook owned all FGW 143's.

 

[43096]

They don't belong to the GW franchise, they belong to First Group (as do some HST power cars, incidentally). How did this happen? I rather suspect the authority put them up for sale and First made the best offer!

The three 143s are shown in the franchise agreement (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/646260/red-fgw-franchise-agreement.pdf) as “primary franchise assets”which means that they are owned by the franchise (First Greater Western Ltd.) and not FirstGroup. If that has changed, perhaps you could quote a source?

 

[sprinterguy]

Back in the 1980s, the "Swanline" local services between Swansea and Cardiff were launched, with 3(?) class 143 units funded and owned by a consortium of local authorities, which were each named after breeds of swan.

If it was in the 1980s, then it wouldn't be 143s, as they weren't reallocated from North East England to South Wales until 1992. There's no evidence of ownership independent of Regional Railways in early to mid nineties platform 5 pocket books, but post-privatisation in 2001 the following 143 units were owned by the following:

143601/610/614 Rhondda Cynon Taff District Council (Operated by Wales & West)
143609 Bridgend County Borough Council (Operated by "Valley Lines")
143617 - 619 Rail Assets Investments Ltd (Operated by Wales & West)

There's no evidence there of swan themed names being applied to any three units, although they may have been short-lived.

The three 143s are shown in the franchise agreement (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/646260/red-fgw-franchise-agreement.pdf) as “primary franchise assets”which means that they are owned by the franchise (First Greater Western Ltd.) and not FirstGroup. If that has changed, perhaps you could quote a source?

Indeed; in every source I can find, they're referred to as being assets of the Great Western franchise, not the property of First Group.

 

[pdeaves]

Indeed; in every source I can find, they're referred to as being assets of the Great Western franchise, not the property of First Group.

OK (and to the others saying the same thing). They are consistently referred to as Group assets in my line of work but in the light of strong opposition it's probable that it's a convenient shorthand.

 

[pdeaves]

There's no evidence of swan themed names being applied to any three units, although they may have been short-lived.

Image of "Mute Swan" name just over half way down this page: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80064-class-143-arriva-trains-wales-project/page-2

Names listed on http://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/class-143.html

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1997 Combined Volume lists them as:

143 617 Bewick's Swan
143 618 Mute Swan
143 619 Whooper Swan

Which matches the website quoted above exactly.

However it has 143 601/10/14 as being owned by Mid-Glamorgan County Council; 2001 is the first issue in which this is changed to Rhondda - was this a local government reform changing the name of the authority or an actual transfer of ownership?

 

[sprinterguy]

Image of "Mute Swan" name just over half way down this page: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80064-class-143-arriva-trains-wales-project/page-2

Names listed on http://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/class-143.html

That's interesting, thanks. I didn't doubt that they'd been applied at some point, but was slightly surprised that the names didn't appear in any of the platform 5 lists I had to hand. Definitely a comparatively brief mid-nineties(ish) occurence, then.

However it has 143 601/10/14 as being owned by Mid-Glamorgan County Council; 2001 is the first issue in which this is changed to Rhondda - was this a local government reform changing the name of the authority or an actual transfer of ownership?

In the latest (2017) edition, they're again listed as owned by Mid-Glamorgan County Council: Either the Platform 5 guide for 2001 is erroneous, or there was a change of authority name in the interim.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

2006 lists them as Bridgend Council, so I suspect it's name changes?

 

[greatkingrat]

Mid Glamorgan County Council was abolished in 1996. The area concerned is now mostly covered by Bridgend, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr Tydfil councils.