Sweden: SJ, DSB and RDC to operate Stockholm-Hamburg EuroNight from August 2022

[StephenHunter]

The cars that will be used is old ÖBB 75-71 https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/A/OeBB_WLABmz-7571-4.php?lang=en

They have 13 compartments för 2 persons, and 2 compartment (1st class) for 3 persons.

Thanks.

 

[jamesontheroad]

And here are photographs of the first carriage when it was brought to Sweden over the weekend:

Första nattågsvagnen har anlänt – Järnvägar.nu

Den första av det 20-tal vagnar som SJ kommer att använda i nattågen mellan Stockholm och Hamburg kom på fredagen till Sverige.

jarnvagar.nu

Första nattågsvagnen har anlänt
AV ULF NYSTRÖM • Publicerad 30 april 2022
Den första av det 20-tal vagnar som SJ kommer att använda i nattågen mellan Stockholm och Hamburg kom på fredagen till Sverige.

The first night train carriage has arrived
BY ULF NYSTRÖM • Published 30 April, 2022
The first of the 20 or so carriages that SJ will use in night trains between Stockholm and Hamburg arrived in Sweden on Friday.

SJ published a visualization of the new train (source) which suggests the carriages will keep the blue base coat of the RDC carriage that arrived on Friday, and receive a green vinyl band at one end, along with German and Swedish titles...

 

[StephenHunter]

Are those doors PRM-TSI compliant?

 

[Symbiote]

There's now a timetable shown at https://www.sj.se/sv/reseinfo/sj-euronight.html

Including a rather long 53 minute wait at Malmö Central, southbound.

Høje Taastrup wourld provide connections with local trains and the city metro ... assuming any of them were running at the time the sleeper called...

(Which is for the Snälltåget train.) Høje Taastrup doesn't have a metro connection, you probably saw the suburban train (S-tog) map. On Sunday-Wednesday nights the last train to the city centre is at about 01:30 (then buses until 3am), Thursday-Saturday they run all night at least every half hour.

The new SJ EuroNight train is stopping at Copenhagen Airport, which does have a metro station. That runs all night, every night.

 

[StephenHunter]

There's now a timetable shown at https://www.sj.se/sv/reseinfo/sj-euronight.html

Including a rather long 53 minute wait at Malmö Central, southbound.

Only 12 minutes going back. Maybe a pathing issue?

 

[jamesontheroad]

There's now a timetable shown at https://www.sj.se/sv/reseinfo/sj-euronight.html

Including a rather long 53 minute wait at Malmö Central, southbound.

Only 12 minutes going back. Maybe a pathing issue?

Possibly. Both Snälltåget and SJ change locomotives in Malmö, so the train arrives in the dead-end platforms of the upper level of Malmö C, a new locomotive attaches to the other end and then departs in the opposite direction. 10 minutes is more than enough time; 53 minutes suggests waiting for a path across the bridge. By that time, most passengers will be asleep, so padding the schedule isn't a problem.

Are those doors PRM-TSI compliant?

No, I don't think they are. However on SJ's webpage, it says:

Funktionshinder​

Det finns inte plats för rullstol ombord. Handikapplats finns i sittvagnen och har nära till utgång och WC.

Which means "There is no space for a wheelchair on board. Disabled seating is located in the seated carriage and is near the exit and toilet." I'm not sure what the legalities of this provision are, although I think Snälltåget has taken a similar position. Disabled passengers can be accommodated on the train, and therefore everything is above board, but only in one part of the train and without their wheelchair.

 

[StephenHunter]

I was more specifically talking about the door colour, but that's also useful information.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

With the published timings I can see some potential for business from Malmo (23.33) and Copenhagen (00.04) to Hamburg but much less so northbound (03.46 and 04.12) so potentially a higher load factor southbound than northbound.

I note Today's Railways Europe has listed a summary of the stock being provided by RDC Deutschland - 5 seated coaches, 9 x 54 berth and 2 x 50 berth couchette vehicles (presumably he latter with facilities for persons with reduced mobility) and 7 sleeping cars (WLAB32).

 

[Gloster]

Which means "There is no space for a wheelchair on board. Disabled seating is located in the seated carriage and is near the exit and toilet." I'm not sure what the legalities of this provision are, although I think Snälltåget has taken a similar position. Disabled passengers can be accommodated on the train, and therefore everything is above board, but only in one part of the train and without their wheelchair.

My feeling has a slightly nuanced interpretation of that, in that I interpret ‘plats’ as meaning place. There is no place for a wheelchair user to sit in their wheelchair, but it may be possible for them to travel in a disabled place and for the wheelchair to be onboard the train as well. I admit that it is one of these points that could keep lawyers arguing for days.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Reposting something I can just added to the thread about the suspension of RDC’s Alpen-Sylt-Express.

Earlier this week three Alpen-Sylt-Express branded carriages were seen in Malmö. Two are apparently already in Stockholm.

These are not what RDC and SJ previously announced for the sleeping carriages of the Stockholm-Hamburg train. It seems the T2S (?) cars are delayed and instead SJ is getting these newer (ex-ÖBB) carriages. There’s plenty of chat on the precise type and origin of these carriages on the SJK Postvagnen forum (translatable with Google Chrome).

Videos of the carriages on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/tag...nk/3395571657329092/?m_entstream_source=group

 

[jamesontheroad]

Some updates. So the SJ EuroNight train started as scheduled, but without any seat carriages or sleeper carriages. The Danish authorities have not granted either type approval or individual carriage approval for any of these carriages (either the ones planned to be used, which were delayed due to supply problems during renovation, or the replacements that RDC provided at short notice). Negotiations have started, but the process could take several months. As a result the train has travelled with as few as one and as many as three couchette carriages. Järnvägar.nu reports, in Swedish but easily translatable with Google Chrome: https://jarnvagar.nu/premiar-for-kort-nattag/

There are also a couple of reviews on YouTube now, like this one.

As a result of the unavailability of sleeper carriages, all bookings already made in 1st and 2nd class sleeper compartments have either been cancelled or reaccommodated in couchette. Ticket sales are suspended for the remainder of the timetable period (i.e. until 10th December 2022), when it is hoped that the train can run at its full length. Armchair travellers or those planning a trip, take note.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Järnvägar reports (in Swedish, easily translatable) that SJ expects to get approval for the seated and sleeper carriages very soon, and introduce them into service at the beginning of October. As soon as a reliable EIS date is known, sales for first and second class sleepers and the seated carriage will resume. My translation of one extract:

"If everything goes to plan, we can put four sleeper carriages in traffic at the beginning of October," says Dan Olofsson, head of procured traffic at SJ.

Three weeks ago, it became clear that the premiere of SJ's night train service between Stockholm and Hamburg would not be what SJ and the passengers had hoped for.

The Danish Transport Agency refused to approve both sleeping and sitting carriages for traffic through Denmark and referred SJ to the European Railway Agency (ERA), the EU's railway agency in France.

In the article Ulf Nyström also reports that the train from Hamburg (d. 21.50) has been delayed on a couple of occasions in order to wait for connecting passengers from EC172 Budapest N (07.40) - Bratislava (10.10) - Prague H (14.34) - Dresden Hbf (16.55) - Berlin Hbf (19.06) - Hamburg Altona (21.35). This looks like an important and therefore routinely protected connection, which is good to know.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Järnvägar.nu (a Swedish railway industry news site) reports today that SJ will offer sleeping car accommodations on the Euronight train between Stockholm and Hamburg from Wednesday, 7th December. Tickets went on sale yesterday, Saturday 3rd December. This follows the long and protracted wait for Danish authorities to approve the carriages.

Link: https://jarnvagar.nu/antligen-sovvagn-till-hamburg/

Quote (my translation):

1st September [2022] was the premiere trip with SJ's new night train between Stockholm and Hamburg. But there were only couchettes in the train. 108 days later, on 7th December, there will be a premiere for sleeping cars on the night trains.
"It's a milestone," says Dan Olofsson, head of procured traffic at SJ. "It has taken just over three months since the start of service, but we can finally use sleeping cars on the night trains. The interest in traveling with the night train is great, so we are really happy that we can finally put the sleeping cars into service."
The reason for the delayed premiere of the sleeping cars is new procedures for vehicle approvals on the European rail market and slow processing by the Danish authorities.

 

[popeter45]

Järnvägar.nu (a Swedish railway industry news site) reports today that SJ will offer sleeping car accommodations on the Euronight train between Stockholm and Hamburg from Wednesday, 7th December. Tickets went on sale yesterday, Saturday 3rd December. This follows the long and protracted wait for Danish authorities to approve the carriages.

Link: https://jarnvagar.nu/antligen-sovvagn-till-hamburg/

Quote (my translation):

still not showing when i look for feb 26th malmo to hamburg

 

[jamesontheroad]

still not showing when i look for feb 26th malmo to hamburg

Try ÖBB. They are handling sales until the start of the new timetable period. 11 December, when the sleepers will be available on SJ’s web site and app.

 

[StephenHunter]

The MUns are going back to RDC once they're got enough AB32s, I see.

 

[popeter45]

Try ÖBB. They are handling sales until the start of the new timetable period. 11 December, when the sleepers will be available on SJ’s web site and app.

they dont show the train at all

 

[jamesontheroad]

they dont show the train at all

In which case it’s probably too early to book for late February. SJ (and, for their part, Trafikverket in Sweden) are pretty bad at confirming forthcoming schedules. Unfortunately there’s no way to set up an automatic alert for when a train becomes available - you just have to keep checking.

 

[Mr_B]

still not showing when i look for feb 26th malmo to hamburg

Appears full some days at end of Feb already. I booked Hamburg-Stockholm earlier in Feb a few weeks ago via sj.se ok.

SJ

SJ

www.sj.se

Appears full some days at end of Feb already. I booked Hamburg-Stockholm earlier in Feb a few weeks ago via sj.se ok.

SJ

SJ

www.sj.se

Sorry wrong direction, try this - still shows availability

SJ

SJ

www.sj.se

 

[popeter45]

Appears full some days at end of Feb already. I booked Hamburg-Stockholm earlier in Feb a few weeks ago via sj.se ok.

no i mean i see the train, just only offers seats and couchettes

 

[jamesontheroad]

no i mean i see the train, just only offers seats and couchettes

For reasons I don't quite understand, only ÖBB can sell sleeper tickets before 11 December. From then, they will appear on SJ's channels.

I think this is a detail of the collaboration to price and market the train internationally via ÖBB.

 

[pne]

The last article I read on the subject (published 17/9/2021 in Swedish on jarnvagar.nu) stated that desired arrival time in Hamburg Altona is around 06:40 and departure time around 21:50.

EC8 arrives in Hamburg Hbf at 21:14 and Hamburg Altona 21:29.

If SJ gets times broadly around what they were hoping for, then you would probably have a very safe 45-50 minute connection at Hamburg Hbf from EC8 to EN496. Time for a beer and Turkish platter in the lovely foodcourt upstairs at Hamburg Hbf!

There will be no connection at Hamburg Hbf as the EC 496 does not stop there, so you're left with about 20 minutes in Altona.

So the train will bypass Hamburg Hbf?

It will not travel as far as Hbf. ("Bypass" isn't quite the right word.)

It's coming from the north and entering Hamburg from the (north-)west -- the side that Altona is on.

 

[dutchflyer]

About fullness of sleepers on some dates febr: most likely then its the Svenska spring´break´ holidays and all have been snatched up by some travel agency or the like. In fact in the past this phenomenon was often the cause of people wondering. In the times that this trip was easily possible, also rife on the overhyped Trans-Sib: in RUssia agencies still can reserve space a few days or even weeks before Ivan Moskvitch would be able to.
Same is currently said to the case on the also in media overhyped Dostuk=East Ekspressi Ankara-Kars by TCDD.
That is/was one of the wonders of all train tickets being anonymous-even when this is no more the case, agencies can still get around that.

 

[mtmikethom]

This service looks to be extended to Berlin for the summer months, https://jarnvagar.nu/sj-kor-nattag-till-berlin/ (In Swedish)

 

[JonasB]

And it has also been mentioned that SJ is looking for bistro/restaurant cars to add to the train.

 

[mtmikethom]

This service looks to be extended to Berlin for the summer months, https://jarnvagar.nu/sj-kor-nattag-till-berlin/ (In Swedish)

And it has also been mentioned that SJ is looking for bistro/restaurant cars to add to the train.

A Bistro would i guess be worth it and no doubt welcome and dosen't use much space but would restaurant have enough custom to cover the costs, come to think do SJ have a restaurant on a train now? all the same thre is no harm in trying

 

[jamesontheroad]

A Bistro would i guess be worth it and no doubt welcome and dosen't use much space but would restaurant have enough custom to cover the costs, come to think do SJ have a restaurant on a train now? all the same thre is no harm in trying

SJ has night trains to Gothenburg/Stockholm - Duved/Umeå (two trains in each direction with two portions for each destination that split and join in Sundsvall, so a scissor operation of four trains per night). These have a bistro carriage which has a counter and dining area, with microwave meals, boxed salads, etc. These are all Swedish vehicles though, so they aren’t suitable for travel to the continent.

Snälltåget comes a bit closer with its “krog” (“pub”) which adds table service and plated hot meals with tableware and glassware. It only goes to the continent on the winter ski train to Austria.

 

[JonasB]

Based on the article, it sounded like SJ is looking for some restaurant or bistro carriage on the used market. So I guess it depends a bit on what they can find.

Until then it would be great if they could use one of their existing bistro carriages between Malmö and Stockholm.

 

[scarby]

I thought SJ was only able to run this service when the Snälltåget trains aren't running, so when would they be able to operate in the summer?

 

[jamesontheroad]

I thought SJ was only able to run this service when the Snälltåget trains aren't running, so when would they be able to operate in the summer?

They can run them 365 days a year, but they only get the state subsidy when Snälltåget don't run.

IMHO, it's a dumb outcome to a flawed procurement process.