Swiss Railways

[Greenback]

Mrs Greenback and I are considering a trip to Swoitzerland either later this eyar or next year. I haven't been to Swotzerland since 1986, so Iw as just wondering if anyone can give some recommendations on where to go and what to do and see?

I always liked Lucerne, would that be a good base for a few days? Obviously, I'm interested in railways but Mrs G will be looking for non railway things to do as well!

Thans in advance for any info.

 

[robschopper]

I can thoroughly recommend Interlaken and the surrounding area. Loads of different routes to places such as Grindlewald, Lauterbrunan, Speitz, Kandersteg with the added bonus of fantastic towns, cable cars up mountains, lakes, shopping etc. Last time I went Swiss railways did passes for 3, 5 or 7 days unlimited travel. We bought the three day from seven pass because you get large discounts off the cable cars and funicular railways, even on the days you're not using the pass on the railway.
Wasn't particularly cheap, but simply the best place in Europe i've been.

 

[Squaddie]

Mrs Greenback and I are considering a trip to Swoitzerland either later this eyar or next year. I haven't been to Swotzerland since 1986, so Iw as just wondering if anyone can give some recommendations on where to go and what to do and see?

If you're planning to spend a couple of weeks or more in Switzerland then it's probably worth building an itinerary around the half dozen greatest scenic routes, with a few nights in each of a number of places.

I would consider the "must-do" rail routes to be:

Zurich to Bellinzona.
The Bernina Bus from Lugano to Tirano.
The Bernina Express from Tirano to St. Moritz, Davos and/or Chur.
The Glacier Express from Davos and/or Chur to Zermatt
The Jungraujoch mountain railway
The Golden Panorama Express from Lucerne to Interlaken, Zweiseimmen and Montreux.

So, an example itinerary built around these routes might be:

(Fly into Zurich)
Zurich-Lugano (there are fast express trains but you're better off taking one of the slower trains with panorama cars to Bellinzona and change there to a Lugano train)
(Stay in Lugano for a couple of days)
Bernina Bus from Lugano to Tirano and then Bernina Express from Tirano to Davos
(Stay in Davos for a couple of days - or perhaps Klosters, which isn't far away and is much nicer)
Glacier Express from Davos to Zermatt
(Couple of days in Zermatt)
Zermatt to the Bernese Oberland
(A few days in one of the beautiful mountain villages in the Bernese Oberland - Wengen and Grindelwald are the most convenient for mountain railway connections)
One one of the days in the Bernese Oberland you should take the Golden Panorama Express to Lucerne. You can return the same way, or by mainline train via Bern.
Then take the other part of the Golden Panorama route from Interlaken to Zweisimmen, Montreux and Geneva.
(Fly back from Geneva)

You can easily book an open-jaw ticket into Zurich and out of Geneva with BA or Swiss, or you can use Eurostar and TGV.

The Bernina Express and Glacier Express must be reserved in advance, but you can travel those routes almost as easily on regular trains. The scenery's the same, and the local trains are very comfortable.

A Swiss pass does not cover the Jungfraujoch mountain railway, but you do get a small discount on the outrageous return fare of 150 Swiss francs (about £100).

Expect to pay between 100 and 150 Swiss francs per night for a double room in a family-run hotel in each of these places.

If you have less time then the Bernese Oberland is the place to head for, as it offers an unsurpassed combination of scenery and mountain railways. You get a Swiss Transfer Ticket that gives you a journey from you arrival airport (or border) to anywhere in Switzerland and back for around £80 (£120 first class). And you can get a rail pass for the Bernese Oberland area for a few days which covers nearly all railways and cable cars in the area.

You can book all your train tickets and reservations through STC in London, and download a map of Swiss railways here.

 

[starrymarkb]

If you're planning to spend a couple of weeks or more in Switzerland then it's probably worth building an itinerary around the half dozen greatest scenic routes, with a few nights in each of a number of places.

I would consider the "must-do" rail routes to be:

Zurich to Bellinzona.
The Bernina Bus from Lugano to Tirano.
The Bernina Express from Tirano to St. Moritz, Davos and/or Chur.
The Glacier Express from Davos and/or Chur to Zermatt
The Jungraujoch mountain railway
The Golden Panorama Express from Lucerne to Interlaken, Zweiseimmen and Montreux.

So, an example itinerary built around these routes might be:

(Fly into Zurich)
Zurich-Lugano (there are fast express trains but you're better off taking one of the slower trains with panorama cars to Bellinzona and change there to a Lugano train)
(Stay in Lugano for a couple of days)
Bernina Bus from Lugano to Tirano and then Bernina Express from Tirano to Davos
(Stay in Davos for a couple of days - or perhaps Klosters, which isn't far away and is much nicer)
Glacier Express from Davos to Zermatt
(Couple of days in Zermatt)
Zermatt to the Bernese Oberland
(A few days in one of the beautiful mountain villages in the Bernese Oberland - Wengen and Grindelwald are the most convenient for mountain railway connections)
One one of the days in the Bernese Oberland you should take the Golden Panorama Express to Lucerne. You can return the same way, or by mainline train via Bern.
Then take the other part of the Golden Panorama route from Interlaken to Zweisimmen, Montreux and Geneva.
(Fly back from Geneva)

You can easily book an open-jaw ticket into Zurich and out of Geneva with BA or Swiss, or you can use Eurostar and TGV.

The Bernina Express and Glacier Express must be reserved in advance, but you can travel those routes almost as easily on regular trains. The scenery's the same, and the local trains are very comfortable.

A Swiss pass does not cover the Jungfraujoch mountain railway, but you do get a small discount on the outrageous return fare of 150 Swiss francs (about £100).

Expect to pay between 100 and 150 Swiss francs per night for a double room in a family-run hotel in each of these places.

If you have less time then the Bernese Oberland is the place to head for, as it offers an unsurpassed combination of scenery and mountain railways. You get a Swiss Transfer Ticket that gives you a journey from you arrival airport (or border) to anywhere in Switzerland and back for around £80 (£120 first class). And you can get a rail pass for the Bernese Oberland area for a few days which covers nearly all railways and cable cars in the area.

You can book all your train tickets and reservations through STC in London, and download a map of Swiss railways here.

TBH you'd be better leaving the full Jungfrau Bahn to the rich tourists as most of it is in tunnel! Kleine Sheindegg is better for views and is Doable on a regional pass (the reg pass is accepted up to KS but no further)

 

[LE Greys]

I don't know the area around Lucerne, but I've spent a bit of time travelling around the Bernese Oberland in the past, and the Interlaken route is one of the most scenic railways I ever remember. An absolute gem (but an entire day out) involves the Golden Pass route, metre-gauge from Lucerne to Interlaken (didn't do that bit), then standard-gauge along the Interlaken-Berne route, reverse at Thun for Zweisimmen (tiny place) then metre-gauge again via the Montreux-Oberland Bernois line to Montreux on the shores of Lac Lamen (there is no such thing as "Lake Geneva"). It's a great way to see the mountains without too much foot-slogging, and fascinating from a railway point of view, in that it's a very old electrified route with all sorts of rolling-stock - modern panoramic-windowed or well-restored Edwardian. The quick way back is the main line through Berne, although if you feel like visiting Geneva, I could get on to someone I know who lives near there and probably knows the best places to stay. She's originally from Ticino, so should be able to recommend somewhere down there as well. The Gotthard Base Tunnel won't open for a few years yet, so the spectacular climbs and spiral tunnels are still there on the way.

 

[Greenback]

I have done the metre guage from Interlaken to Lucerne, but not the rest of your recommendation. I am sure Mrs Greenback would like to see Geneva - I am only thinking of Lucerne because I have stayed there before and thought it was very pretty.

Thank you for all the comments - keep 'em coming!

 

[Railjet]

.... on the shores of Lac Lamen (there is no such thing as "Lake Geneva").

What a strange comment. It's Lac Léman, and Lake Geneva is the correct form in English - just as the English Channel is La Manche in French.

 

[Squaddie]

TBH you'd be better leaving the full Jungfrau Bahn to the rich tourists as most of it is in tunnel!

That's true, but it does take you to the highest railway station in Europe, and once you get to the top the views are breathtaking in every direction. There is deep snow, even in August, and there's a fabulous walk of about 45 minutes that takes you to a cafe where you can have a hot chocolate.

It is undoubtedly expensive, but worth every centime. Just make sure you choose a completely clear day, with a good forecast, and leave as early as possible in the morning. If the clouds roll in then it's £100 wasted.

 

[LE Greys]

What a strange comment. It's Lac Léman, and Lake Geneva is the correct form in English - just as the English Channel is La Manche in French.

Apologies for spelling, but a certain Geneva resident told me in no uncertain terms that there is no such place as Lake Geneva. She gets very annoyed when people use that name, and I don't blame her. The difference with the English Channel/La Manche is that we actually live on one side of it.

Note to self, Lac Léman in future.

 

[starrymarkb]

a bit like Lake Lucerne and the Vierwaldstättersee

 

[kylemore]

If in Luzern take the steamer to Fluelen, five beautiful old paddlers to choose from, splash out and go first class and have lunch in the ornate dining saloon.

 

[LouJ]

The Bernina Bus from Lugano to Tirano.
The Bernina Express from Tirano to St. Moritz, Davos and/or Chur.
The Glacier Express from Davos and/or Chur to Zermatt
The Jungraujoch mountain railway
The Golden Panorama Express from Lucerne to Interlaken, Zweiseimmen and Montreux.

There is a tendency to use headline named trains on the routes given above. However speaking from extensive experience there is a better way of doing some of these routes.

Let's take the Glacier Express for example - this train is usually full and not particularly comfortable in 2nd class. Space is tight in first class too. Instead use normal local trains to cover the route perhaps stopping at places like Andermatt for lunch and a session train watching. This way you may not travel on a named train but will have a more comfortable trip and see just as much. You will also save on reservation fees!

 

[Striker]

Apologies for spelling, but a certain Geneva resident told me in no uncertain terms that there is no such place as Lake Geneva. She gets very annoyed when people use that name, and I don't blame her. The difference with the English Channel/La Manche is that we actually live on one side of it.

Note to self, Lac Léman in future.

That certain Geneva resident is talking nonsense. In French it has been customary to refer to it as Lac Leman rather than Lac de Geneve since the 18th Century, but in English it s still Lake Geneva. Does she suggest Genfersee doesn't exist as that is how it's referred to in German, and that is the predominant language in Switzerland.

 

[Derbyshire Gra]

Have spent lots of time in Switzerland. For scenery and variety of transport modes, the Bernese Oberland around Interlaken is hard to better. But if you want outrageous trains running on a superb network in pretty mountainous terrain, i would recommend the Rhatische Bahn in the south east corner beyond Chur. Whilst some services have now gone over to new units (hauling carriages) there are many loco-hauled services on a fantastic network that provides hourly trains on all routes, with superb connections at all intersections.

Some of my pics here from a trip in February may help you decide, including a few on the Rhatische.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11224/sets/72157626523283692/

 

[MrC]

That's true, but it does take you to the highest railway station in Europe, and once you get to the top the views are breathtaking in every direction. There is deep snow, even in August, and there's a fabulous walk of about 45 minutes that takes you to a cafe where you can have a hot chocolate.

It is undoubtedly expensive, but worth every centime. Just make sure you choose a completely clear day, with a good forecast, and leave as early as possible in the morning. If the clouds roll in then it's £100 wasted.

I'd also recommend this area, there's a huge amount to see and do. Regarding checking the weather before heading up the Jungfraujoch most hotels in the area have TV channels which show live camera images (eg http://www.swisspanorama.com/html/jungfraucam1.html so you can check while still in bed. We stayed at Wengen which is a great place to explore the area from.

 

[Railjet]

Last year, on a journey from Rome to Cologne, I missed a connection at Arth Goldau onward on the main line to Lucerne.

Then up rolled the Voralpen Express, which took a secondary route to Lucerne on the banks of the lake. This is a "normal" SBB train - so no supplements if you're on a pass - but in first class, there was great retro armchair-style seating.

It takes a secondary route from Romanshorn - St Gallen - Arth Goldau - Lucerne. Train every hour, and here is a map of the route. Highly recommended.

 

[LE Greys]

That certain Geneva resident is talking nonsense. In French it has been customary to refer to it as Lac Leman rather than Lac de Geneve since the 18th Century, but in English it s still Lake Geneva. Does she suggest Genfersee doesn't exist as that is how it's referred to in German, and that is the predominant language in Switzerland.

She's from Ticino, so naturally speaks Italian. And she can be a little opinionated sometimes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Last year, on a journey from Rome to Cologne, I missed a connection at Arth Goldau onward on the main line to Lucerne.

Then up rolled the Voralpen Express, which took a secondary route to Lucerne on the banks of the lake. This is a "normal" SBB train - so no supplements if you're on a pass - but in first class, there was great retro armchair-style seating.

It takes a secondary route from Romanshorn - St Gallen - Arth Goldau - Lucerne. Train every hour, and here is a map of the route. Highly recommended.

From what I hear of Swiss railways, you were very unlucky to miss a connection. However, I certainly agree with you about sticking with the ordinary trains. Much of the stock on the lakeshore semi-fasts was approximately early MkII-era, and exceptionally spacious and comfortable (for somebody used to Turbostars anyway). No air-con, but all the side windows are droplights as compensation, although this can get a bit draughty. Occasionally, some of the old Italian stock finds its way over the border, providing 2nd class with three-a-side compartments. The drivers have a habit of barrelling into stations at about 40 mph, and still stop bang on the mark.

Incidentally, last time I changed at Arth Goldau, there were six inches of snow on the platform - and the connecting train was the early form of Pendolino.

 

[Railjet]

She's from Ticino, so naturally speaks Italian. And she can be a little opinionated sometimes.

So, by implication, she'll have a problem with Italians calling the English Channel "La Manica".

From what I hear of Swiss railways, you were very unlucky to miss a connection. However, I certainly agree with you about sticking with the ordinary trains. Much of the stock on the lakeshore semi-fasts was approximately early MkII-era, and exceptionally spacious and comfortable (for somebody used to Turbostars anyway). No air-con, but all the side windows are droplights as compensation, although this can get a bit draughty. Occasionally, some of the old Italian stock finds its way over the border, providing 2nd class with three-a-side compartments. The drivers have a habit of barrelling into stations at about 40 mph, and still stop bang on the mark.

Incidentally, last time I changed at Arth Goldau, there were six inches of snow on the platform - and the connecting train was the early form of Pendolino.

I was surprised, too. I was on one of the ex-Cisalpino Pendolinos from Milan, which broke down after crossing the border into Switzerland. They are (or were) notorious for unreliability - so much so, that there is a website dedicated to them - www.cessoalpino.com with a lot of detailed statistics. Cessoalpino is a pun on cisalpino - "cesso" being a slang word for toilet in Italian.

 

[LE Greys]

I was surprised, too. I was on one of the ex-Cisalpino Pendolinos from Milan, which broke down after crossing the border into Switzerland. They are (or were) notorious for unreliability - so much so, that there is a website dedicated to them - www.cessoalpino.com with a lot of detailed statistics. Cessoalpino is a pun on cisalpino - "cesso" being a slang word for toilet in Italian.

The coffee was surprisingly good, though. Although I had been on the go for fourteen hours by then, so my judgement might have been a bit clouded. My tastebuds might have been affected by the doner kebab at Basel station as well.

 

[LouJ]

The drivers have a habit of barrelling into stations at about 40 mph, and still stop bang on the mark.

This is something that never fails to impress me in Switzerland (and germany, Austria and beyond). The 350 I used to work this mroning crept into Stafford station at 5 mp.p.h. - in Switzerland we would have been off again in the time it took this train to stop!

 

[pbear]

Flying into Geneva in a couple of months and staying in Liechtenstein, was gonna be getting the swiss transfer pass as the original plan was flying out of geneva again as this was easiest for flight connections. However this has now changed and we are now flying out of Basel instead of Geneva, will i be able to use the transfer pass for the return leg?
Also, anyone know if the pass will get me all the way to Vaduz or just to the border at Buchs?