SWR after May

[weeklycommuter]

FirstGroup have released the usual PR article about how many "improvements" they've made to the railway since the franchise begun..

The two important achievements since 2017 under First-MTR (I assume they were both decisions by Government) have been the refurbishments of the class 450 and class 444 trains which added a lot more standard class seats and the 26 million pounds renewal of the Island Line infrastructure and the new class 484 trains without which the Island Line could not have continued (Network Rail delivered the separate 25 million pounds renewal of Ryde Pier).

Although the Island Line renewal took longer than expected and has so far delivered a 40 minute timetable instead of a 30 minute timetable the Island Line could not have continued without this renewal of infrastructure and the new class 484 trains.

On the class 444 trains the replacement in each five car set of 35 two plus one first class seats, the buffet and the guard compartment with 32 two plus two first class seats and increasing the number of standard class seats from 299 to 327 was a very big improvement.

On the class 450 trains the replacement in each four car set of 24 two plus one first class seats and the guard compartment with compartments of 8 two plus two first class seats at each end and increasing the number of standard class seats from 240 to 269 was a very big improvement.

The decision to replace all the metro trains with 60 ten car and 30 five car class 701 Arterio trains was a good decision but unfortunately the rollout has not so far been delivered. I hope and expect this will be done without further delay under full public ownership.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the class 444 trains the replacement in each five car set of 35 two plus one first class seats, the buffet and the guard compartment with 32 two plus two first class seats and increasing the number of standard class seats from 299 to 327 was a very big improvement.

No it wasn't. 2+2 with worse legroom and worse seats than Standard isn't first class.

They could have had the guts to declassify or remove it entirely I suppose, as WMT have done. But what is there is an utter sham; the comfort level is lower than Standard (and yes, I have used it - once, would never again). A bit like WMT's I suppose, which at least was later declassified, and even now it is I never sit there because Standard is more comfortable, even on the 350/2s.

?

Normal journey time between Weymouth and Waterloo is between 2hrs 40mins to 3hrs, or on Sunday circa 3hrs 30mins.

Not sure where I got that from, then...must have been thinking the full end to end from Bletchley rather than from Waterloo.

It is still a decent-length intercity** journey rather than a pure commuter one, though - about 2/3 of the distance from London to Manchester and a longer journey time. While it does act as a commuter service closer to London, so does London-Manchester with people from Rugby and MKC using the trains that stop at those. I get the whole thing about catering being increasingly non-viable (which I think has a lot to do with the quality of station provision and how it's quite hard to do good coffee from a trolley) but if you're going to have First Class it justifies it being proper First Class as it was before SWR destroyed it by making it like Standard but with reduced legroom* and worse seats. Same with the 159s which at least I believe they haven't had chance to vandalise.

* OK, I've criticised the FISA LEAN "niche" before, but SWR have actually fitted metal plates blocking it for no reason I can discern, so there isn't even legroom for those who can comfortably sit knees together.
** Both in terms of actually connecting several cities - more in fact than London-Manchester does - and in terms of the usage profile of some journeys on it - it isn't purely a commuter service until it starts getting fairly close to London.

 

[Zomboid]

Both in terms of actually connecting several cities - more in fact than London-Manchester does - and in terms of the usage profile of some journeys on it - it isn't purely a commuter service until it starts getting fairly close to London

Commuting to London seems to start in earnest at Southampton Airport, which is just over an hour on the fastest trains. Which aligns with Rugby or Peterborough in terms of time taken at least.

 

[moley]

Today is supposed to be the day the new branding is revealed at Bournemouth depot by Heidi Alexander according an article from The Times last week.

It is. Media are subject to a strict midnight Sunday embargo on descriptions and images of the new branding, so don’t expect to see anything today.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Ooh, they'd better be strict at the unveiling event like confiscating mobile phones & cameras on entry. Attendees could bring their kids & teens that they could inadvertently leak any details to social media - practically impossible to conceal anything nowadays.

 

[James H]

However there should be proper first class and catering of some form at the very least since both Bournemouth and Portsmouth take longer to get to from London than Birmingham and Bristol, however since it's on the third rail network and formerly NSE it gets downgraded to a glorified outer suburban service instead of the intercity service the 444s were designed to provide.

Recent House of Lords answer from Lord Hendy re the West of England line (though I suspect applicable to other SWR routes too):
"One of the tasks of the new management of South Western Railways (SWR) after train operations come into public ownership will be to pay close attention to the needs of the travelling public. As I know that a long held desire of travellers on this line is the reinstatement of refreshments, this will be examined afresh to see if a positive financial case can be made for it."
Source: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2025-04-28.HL6952.h#gHL6952.q0

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Recent House of Lords answer from Lord Hendy re the West of England line (though I suspect applicable to other SWR routes too):
"One of the tasks of the new management of South Western Railways (SWR) after train operations come into public ownership will be to pay close attention to the needs of the travelling public. As I know that a long held desire of travellers on this line is the reinstatement of refreshments, this will be examined afresh to see if a positive financial case can be made for it."
Source: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2025-04-28.HL6952.h#gHL6952.q0

Hope refreshments may one day be brought back under DFTO SWR or GBR, likely as trolley service as I believe the buffet counters have been ripped out of the 444s during recent refurbishments?

I travelled on a EMR service from Sheffield to STP the other week, I bought a coffee from the trolley and the journey was shorter than from Waterloo to Weymouth.

 

[Leyland Bus]

It is. Media are subject to a strict midnight Sunday embargo on descriptions and images of the new branding, so don’t expect to see anything today.

There must be sth fairly decent to show off it's embargoed in such a way...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This article suggests there is a completely brand new livery that will eventually be the uniform look, BUT, quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

Train firms will need to 'earn the right' to carry nationalisation rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed

www.mirror.co.uk

Train firms need to 'earn the right' to carry Great British Railways rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed. Train firms being nationalised will be blocked from carrying new Great British Railways livery until they have come up-to-scratch, particularly on passenger standards, sources say. Ten train companies will be nationalised by the Labour government between now and October 2027 - beginning with South Western Railway this Sunday. However, it is understood none of the companies’ fleet of trains will be rebranded until they meet demanding standards. These are believed to cover improving punctuality, reducing cancellations, and making the passenger experience better, including seating. A government source said: “They need to earn the right to be called Great British Railways”.

 

[miklcct]

As I know that a long held desire of travellers on this line is the reinstatement of refreshments, this will be examined afresh to see if a positive financial case can be made for it."

If it goes ahead when will it happen? I have bought a 1st class Advance from Weymouth to Clapham Junction for travel in June.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There must be sth fairly decent to show off it's embargoed in such a way...

Quick!! Let's all get busy on Photoshop and Twitter ahead of Sunday... Blue and grey 701, anyone...?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

It is. Media are subject to a strict midnight Sunday embargo on descriptions and images of the new branding, so don’t expect to see anything today.

Wow, a proper embargo.. at least they’re clearly taking this process seriously. How much are we betting it leaks anyway?

 

[ScottGallagher]

It is. Media are subject to a strict midnight Sunday embargo on descriptions and images of the new branding, so don’t expect to see anything today.

Wouldn't it be more logical to have the launch event on Sunday then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Commuting to London seems to start in earnest at Southampton Airport, which is just over an hour on the fastest trains. Which aligns with Rugby or Peterborough in terms of time taken at least.

Yes, an hour does seem to be about the maximum most people will commute. See also Northampton/Long Buckby. I do know someone who commuted from Bournemouth but he didn't say nice things about it and stopped it as soon as was viable. Of course there are on any route the odd people who will commute further.

Wouldn't it be more logical to have the launch event on Sunday then?

You would think so. Most of the Press will behave, but I'd be surprised if nothing at all leaked.

If it goes ahead when will it happen? I have bought a 1st class Advance from Weymouth to Clapham Junction for travel in June.

In all seriousness unless a 450 shows up (which is very, very rare though not unknown) I'd sit in Standard, in my view it's more comfortable.

This article suggests there is a completely brand new livery that will eventually be the uniform look, BUT, quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

This makes a lot of sense. Older viewers (!) might recall Virgin Trains doing something similar in that they never reliveried the 158s (as they weren't seen to be up to their standard) and a Mk2 set they kept on short term but didn't fully refurbish was repainted in full InterCity livery for the same reason. This sort of approach did seem to work for them - they were absolutely derided in the early days but seemed to manage to be very popular towards the end.

 

[Joe Paxton]

This article suggests there is a completely brand new livery that will eventually be the uniform look, BUT, quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

This makes a lot of sense. Older viewers (!) might recall Virgin Trains doing something similar in that they never reliveried the 158s (as they weren't seen to be up to their standard) and a Mk2 set they kept on short term but didn't fully refurbish was repainted in full InterCity livery for the same reason. This sort of approach did seem to work for them - they were absolutely derided in the early days but seemed to manage to be very popular towards the end.

On launch, Network SouthEast did similar - the livery was only given to internally refurbished stock.

 

[Meerkat]

I'd disagree. It's drab, dowdy, flat cloth so won't wear well

The blue seats already look scruffy and dirty!

 

[moley]

Ooh, they'd better be strict at the unveiling event like confiscating mobile phones & cameras on entry. Attendees could bring their kids & teens that they could inadvertently leak any details to social media - practically impossible to conceal anything nowadays.

This is why the event is at a depot, a private building which they can control access to - rather than at Waterloo.

Wow, a proper embargo.. at least they’re clearly taking this process seriously. How much are we betting it leaks anyway?

Very likely.

Wouldn't it be more logical to have the launch event on Sunday then?

The train will be used on the first Waterloo departure on Sunday, the 0614 Waterloo - Shepperton, which is scheduled from platform 19.

Unit is running up as 24/05/25 5B96 2335 Bournemouth depot - Waterloo ECS, due to arrive 0152.

Top (GBR) SWR management are due to be attending but not the government minister.

 

[James H]

Hope refreshments may one day be brought back under DFTO SWR or GBR, likely as trolley service as I believe the buffet counters have been ripped out of the 444s during recent refurbishments?

In the summer they used to sell tubs of Purbeck ice cream on board between Bournemouth and Brockenhurst - I'd love them to bring that back.

Went down very well with passengers - the morale boost was palpable

 

[Bletchleyite]

The blue seats already look scruffy and dirty!

To be fair I do like the leather (fake leather) headrests, but the actual seats are flat cloth, which FirstGroup has done repeatedly and regretted repeatedly!

On launch, Network SouthEast did similar - the livery was only given to internally refurbished stock.

Though that seems to have fallen by the wayside these days, with Northern and WMT very quick to repaint stock without tarting up the interior (though to be fair I do prefer the warm feeling WMT 323 interior over the stark blue Northern one )

 

[LowLevel]

In the summer they used to sell tubs of Purbeck ice cream on board between Bournemouth and Brockenhurst - I'd love them to bring that back.

Went down very well with passengers - the morale boost was palpable

You often needed it with the 442 air con on a full and standing train

 

[Zomboid]

When SWT took on their 158s I remember them apologizing for the state of the unrefurbished one they had to use on a Reading - Brighton service.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Top (GBR) SWR management are due to be attending but not the government minister.

Strange considering it’s the first nationalised franchise under the Labour government.

 

[moley]

That’s why she has her press conference today.

New branding Coming Soon

 

[Class 466]

I've seen one suggestion that it'll be a train carrying some kind of GBR Branding - however that was from a local Putney online news outlet that then went on to use an AI rendition of a 707/710 hybrid... I think I'll take that with a pinch of salt!

 

[FRSZMZ56]

I've seen one suggestion that it'll be a train carrying some kind of GBR Branding - however that was from a local Putney online news outlet that then went on to use an AI rendition of a 707/710 hybrid... I think I'll take that with a pinch of salt!

Just saw that. Incredibly cursed image

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Just saw that. Incredibly cursed image

Yikes, looks scary lol

 

[Zomboid]

I think we can rest easy knowing it won't be that.

They'll have used actual designers to come up with whatever it is.

 

[vuzzeho]

Do we find out today or on Sunday?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do we find out today or on Sunday?

It's embargoed until Sunday, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was leaked before then.

 

[moley]

It’s coming soon