Given they're in the process of replacing 20 year 10 car trains with 40 year old 8 car trains on Reading services I doubt they'll be the least bit worried about any criticism.If true about the reintroduction on the Windsor side I can’t wait to see how they spin this, the same trains you’ve had for the last 25 years, but with 2 less carriages!
There will be more standing space.
How do you work that one out?!
Less seats surely means more standing space in the aisle.
There are typically three or four single 455s out on random diagrams now. I travelled on the 1707 Hounslow loop on Friday. Four cars was fine for the number of passengers. I think it would have been a different story on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. Seems odd to be running pairs of 458s on the metro routes through Wimbledon. Wouldn't it be better to run single 458s and try to keep the 455s paired up?
It won't allow the withdrawal of any 455s will it? The 455s were needed when all the five car 458s were in traffic.
That's my concern.
Not really, no. The new seats are the same as the GA units and have armrests. So the aisles are about the same as a 444 now. It’s erm, an interesting refresh.
Wasn't the point that there are fewer seats because 8 car trains are replacing 10 car trains, rather than because seats have been removed?
Less crews sign 458s so you would have to be very careful splitting 458s up to use one to run on a 455 diagram as you may encounter crewing issues in the day.
There are only more seats in a 458/5 because there are more coaches. Fewer coaches doesn't translate into more standing space!
I think you mean longitudinal, but the point is taken. Indeed, the reduction from 3+2 to 2+2 in the 455s made little difference to standing room (despite the extra need for it just to compensate for the reduced seating capoacity) as the gangways are not wide enough to stand 2 abreast and the new seats don't allow "perching" on the seat backs.
The traction and route guide in the job forum says for certain, but off the top of my head it’s most at Waterloo, all at Wimbledon, Farnham, Strawberry hill, Staines, possibly Feltham and probably Woking.
I'd be very surprised if Feltham wasn't included. It's on the primary route for the class and there are often 458s stabled there.
Someone mentioned perches in the original 455 interiors earlier, which I don't recall despite my years of travelling on the things. I've looked up photos of the original interior and am still none the wiser!
As built, no perches in any variant, /7, /8 or /9. I am referring to the carriage seating plans in my copies of internal documents (as issued probably early 80's) which replaced what had been known as the 'Appendix to the Carriage Working Notices', this latter having died out round about then I seem to recall. These new versions only lasted a couple of years or so (AFAIR), after which the practice of producing such things must have been regarded as an unnecessary expense?
We already have proof there is a growing stock shortage. SWR are persisting in running their one single pair of 707s in service - a microfleet !. Ironically doing more than the shiny new 701s. So it is inevitable that the refurbished 458s will be pressed into service and it just depends when SWR give in to reality.
As can be seen in the picture in the above post, whether by accident or design (and I suspect the latter) the ends of the seat backs were a suitable height and shape to be used as perches, and frequently were.
Can't ever recall anyone doing that - if I were sat in an aisle seat I certainly wouldn't appreciate half of someone's cheek pressed against my arm.As can be seen in the picture in the above post, whether by accident or design (and I suspect the latter) the ends of the seat backs were a suitable height and shape to be used as perches, and frequently were.
Point taken. How many 10 car 458s are still running in service?
From what I've read elsewhere 9 reducing to 6 next month.
Lately I've probably just caught single units on the Portsmouth Direct to Guildford.
There's a single unit 458/5 diagram.
Not if they’ve kept the aisle the same width. It’s not just a case of taking one seat of the rows of 3 away and leaving everything else in the same place.
I did, frequently. And saw many others doing it too. If you are seated in a crush-loaded train your head will be in close proximity to the standees' middle bits whether you like it or not.
You are right. I checked. It has gone for a 5 car 458/5 to a 4 car 450.
Can't comment on that either way, as when I commuted on them (peak time) there were too many bodies in standing mode to notice if anyone was perching their buttock(s) on a seat back. My version of a 'perch' was that which was added within the door entrance/exit area in later times.
Isn't the reason that they're single 455s because double 455s can't work on certain routes, like Hounslow, because there's short platforms and 455s don't have SDO?
8-455s can and do run the Hounslow Loop. It's Datchet in the down direction and Virginia Water in the up direction from Weybridge they cannot call at.
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