SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Intercity110]

will they have the front end change? they look horrid currently in my opinion.

 

[Goldfish62]

will they have the front end change? they look horrid currently in my opinion.

No need to change the front end. It was redesigned when the units were extended to five coaches.

IMO it's better than the original design, which really was awful. A low benchmark admittedly.

 

[Intercity110]

No need to change the front end. It was redesigned when the units were extended to five coaches.

IMO it's better than the original design, which really was awful. A low benchmark admittedly.

i was thinking about the fact that they always seem dirty, and the original was truly terrible ( i was thinking a class 460 style front)

 

[swt_passenger]

i was thinking about the fact that they always seem dirty, and the original was truly terrible ( i was thinking a class 460 style front)

As the aim is to use them as 3 x 4 car sets in multiple forming 12 car trains, presumably with passenger accessible gangways, it would be rather counter-productive to change them at all?

 

[Intercity110]

As the aim is to use them as 3 x 4 car sets in multiple forming 12 car trains, presumably with passenger accessible gangways, it would be rather counter-productive to change them at all?

oh, ok.

 

[Goldfish62]

There

As the aim is to use them as 3 x 4 car sets in multiple forming 12 car trains, presumably with passenger accessible gangways, it would be rather counter-productive to change them at all?

The gangway between units where the guard is based will presumably be locked as per current practice due to the cabs being too narrow to sit in with gangway open.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There

The gangway between units where the guard is based will presumably be locked as per current practice due to the cabs being too narrow to sit in with gangway open.

The guard should be in the train checking tickets and assisting passengers, not sitting in a cab. Have SWR climbed down from the excellent way SWT guards used to work? They are/were a real credit to the grade.

If you can only dispatch from the cab they may need to lock it for that short period, but should reopen it afterwards and go back into the train to perform this key part of their role.

 

[Goldfish62]

The guard should be in the train checking tickets and assisting passengers, not sitting in a cab. Have SWR climbed down from the excellent way SWT guards used to work? They are/were a real credit to the grade.

But they have to be based somewhere on the train.

Remember that there are guards and Commercial guards. It's nothing to do with SWT v SWR. The 458/5s have been the same ever since they were introduced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they have to be based somewhere on the train.

No, they don't, bar somewhere to put their bag (which doesn't require the gangway locked).

Non-commercial guards don't in my understanding work these routes, just London suburbans. And I thought the grade was being abolished?

 

[swt_passenger]

No, they don't, bar somewhere to put their bag (which doesn't require the gangway locked).

Non-commercial guards don't in my understanding work these routes, just London suburbans. And I thought the grade was being abolished?

I‘ll add that when I mentioned 12 car I was referring to their future on the Portsmouth route, where they would be manned by commercial guards.

 

[Bumpkin]

Non-commercial guards don't in my understanding work these routes, just London suburbans. And I thought the grade was being abolished?

Woking and Guildford non-commercial guards can work as far down as Portsmouth Harbour so could well be working them when they are cascaded. Out of the two, only Woking currently has the knowledge of 458s

 

[swr444]

The guard should be in the train checking tickets and assisting passengers, not sitting in a cab. Have SWR climbed down from the excellent way SWT guards used to work? They are/were a real credit to the grade.

If you can only dispatch from the cab they may need to lock it for that short period, but should reopen it afterwards and go back into the train to perform this key part of their role.

458's currently are guard unfriendly and only have GOP's in the cab and the middle coach where the accessible bay area is (this GOP does not have a PA handset, so isn't very convenient to work from here).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2023 ==

No, they don't, bar somewhere to put their bag (which doesn't require the gangway locked).

Non-commercial guards don't in my understanding work these routes, just London suburbans. And I thought the grade was being abolished?

This isn't true, the metro guard role is not being abolished.

 

[WizCastro197]

will they have the front end change? they look horrid currently in my opinion.

Does it necessarily affect the performance of the train? Or is just a waste of money on a cosmetic that won’t affect anything for the better? I am sure most of the travelling public don’t care what the front of the train looks like.

 

[DelW]

The guard should be in the train checking tickets and assisting passengers, not sitting in a cab. Have SWR climbed down from the excellent way SWT guards used to work? They are/were a real credit to the grade.

If you can only dispatch from the cab they may need to lock it for that short period, but should reopen it afterwards and go back into the train to perform this key part of their role.

I haven't been using SWR as much as usual because of the general unreliability recently, but I've made about six trips on the Portsmouth Direct since early December, all around 45 minutes to an hour duration. I don't remember having a ticket check, or even seeing the guard, on any of them. Maybe the work to rule means they are doing the bare contractual minimum, whatever that is?

 

[Goldfish62]

No, they don't, bar somewhere to put their bag (which doesn't require the gangway locked)

Ah OK, your understanding is different to that of a couple of SWR guards I know.

They may wish to know what your answer is to when the trains are so crowded they can't move through the coaches and need somewhere to be based.

I await your answer with interest.

 

[VWRO2]

Ah OK, your understanding is different to that of a couple of SWR guards I know.

They may wish to know what your answer is to when the trains are so crowded they can't move through the coaches and need somewhere to be based.

I await your answer with interest.

I agree completely. Or how about a safe place to retreat to when things get nasty?

 

[Invincible]

There

The gangway between units where the guard is based will presumably be locked as per current practice due to the cabs being too narrow to sit in with gangway open.

Do the Portsmouth trains still have a trolley food service that moves through the train? So if the guard is using one of the refurbished 458 cabs (as a retreat), rather than checking tickets, they could let the trolley through?
Assuming the refurbished 4 car 458s at some point will go back in service?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do the Portsmouth trains still have a trolley food service that moves through the train? So if the guard is using one of the refurbished 458 cabs (as a retreat), rather than checking tickets, they could let the trolley through?
Assuming the refurbished 4 car 458s at some point will go back in service?

No catering on any SWR services. There was a break clause in the contract DfT asked SWR to take to reduce costs.

 

[D2007wsm]

Why not just sit in the back cab where the corridor connection isn’t needed? That would allow anyone, including them to pass through the train. That’s what GWR guards do.

 

[Invincible]

No catering on any SWR services. There was a break clause in the contract DfT asked SWR to take to reduce costs.

Guess during COVID downturn in passenger numbers, the catering service became unprofitable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2023 ==

Why not just sit in the back cab where the corridor connection isn’t needed? That would allow anyone, including them to pass through the train. That’s what GWR guards do.

On a 12 car train not so easy, but the refurbished 458s may have driver operated doors and cameras?.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Guess during COVID downturn in passenger numbers, the catering service became unprofitable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2023 ==


On a 12 car train not so easy, but the refurbished 458s may have driver operated doors and cameras?.

The catering was subsidised anyway and covid made it unsustainable.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The catering was subsidised anyway and covid made it unsustainable.

Subsidised? You could’ve fooled me with their prices!

 

[swr444]

Guess during COVID downturn in passenger numbers, the catering service became unprofitable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2023 ==


On a 12 car train not so easy, but the refurbished 458s may have driver operated doors and cameras?.

there's no space to fit DOO screens in the cab. We can only hope that they have retrofitted extra GOP's with handsets so the guard doesn't need to be in the cab most of the time

 

[Goldfish62]

Why not just sit in the back cab where the corridor connection isn’t needed? That would allow anyone, including them to pass through the train. That’s what GWR guards do.

It's always a middle cab on SWR, except for the 158/159s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any advance on 507/517 leaving Widnes and returning to SWR soon?

 

[WizCastro197]

No catering on any SWR services. There was a break clause in the contract DfT asked SWR to take to reduce costs.

I do think this is unacceptable on Weymouth and Exeter services. Somehow SWR's website still suggests they will run a trolley service (on Exeter bound services) and require you to make reservations, when both are discontinued. I don't think SWR ever offered seat reservations, was that cut off in SWT?

 

[swt_passenger]

I do think this is unacceptable on Weymouth and Exeter services. Somehow SWR's website still suggests they will run a trolley service (on Exeter bound services) and require you to make reservations, when both are discontinued. I don't think SWR ever offered seat reservations, was that cut off in SWT?

Yes. SWT ended seat reservations in about 2010, but IIRC some services still have to show as reservable for Advance fare counted place purposes.

 

[Goldfish62]

I do think this is unacceptable on Weymouth and Exeter services.

Agreed, but the DfT has instructed all operators that still have on-board catering to review it so fat chance of anything ever being restored on those services.

 

[WarrenTManager]

8505 now reporting status as ‘hold Widnes’

 

[Goldfish62]

8505 now reporting status as ‘hold Widnes’

So that appears to confirm what Modern Railways stated as being correct (see post #1237).