SWR Class 458 to be retained

[infobleep]

I think the average punter would be most unimpressed to think they're travelling on a 40 - ish year old train.

Anyway, it's an academic debate. They're going off to the scrapyard, no doubt starting in earnest next year.

Some enthusiasts may love them because they're old, but that view isn't shared by the average passenger.

Definitely isn't. No loos on board. I remember when there was work being done to the 455s and 450s had to be used on the New Line Guildford. I overheard someone comment on how posh they were.

Now when you consider commuters from Portsmouth don't like the 450s but prefer the 444s, that says something.

 

[dctraindriver]

I had a little scout around and came across ASLEF's Cab ergonomics guidance here (https://aslef.org.uk/system/files/2022-01/ASLEFCabErgonomics_v3_2021.pdf)

It has a section in about legacy cabs which says:

"A cab environment assessment should be carried out ....

b. When the saloon accommodation undergoes refurbishment."

Which would cover the 458 referb. I guess

and it goes onto say:

4. A cab environment assessment must include the following:
a. An assessment of the Driver’s seat and second person’s seat.
b. An assessment of internal and structural crashworthiness.
c. An assessment of the cab ergonomics - using independent human factors specialists.
d. musculoskeletal risk assessment using an appropriate assessment tool (e.g. the RSSB’s musculoskeletal risk assessment tool (MAT)
e. An assessment of Headlight brightness.
f. An assessment of the air-conditioning or cooling and heating system to ensure:
i. Effective cooling and heating performance
ii. Effective filtration of airborne contaminants and viruses
g. An assessment of the anti-spall qualities of the windscreen
h. An assessment of the cab noise

Would the current 458 cabs fall foul of any of those?

I also noticed that the Legacy part of the doc was added in issue 6 which dates from Dec 2021, while the SWR 458 lease extension and the contracts to convert to 458/4 where all in place in April 2021.

Definitely the cab seat design and how it’s adjusted needs looking at. Takes forever to adjust and also the base of the seat has sharp metal exposed so if not careful you could tear the skin on your legs.

HVAC probably needs looking at. They leak terribly when it rains. Cab noise isn’t good.

If they do come back they’ll be good to drive. I like them.

 

[Dan G]

Windows 95...

I'd be extremely surprised if any of the TCMS modules in the Coradias ran Windows 95, which was for home users. Windows NT 4 was would have been used instead, which looked almost identical to the untrained eye but was a far more robust operating system.

The two code bases (95/98/ME for home use and NT/2000 for professional use) became one with Windows XP.

 

[foggy69]

I'd be extremely surprised if any of the TCMS modules in the Coradias ran Windows 95, which was for home users. Windows NT 4 was would have been used instead, which looked almost identical to the untrained eye but was a far more robust operating system.

The two code bases (95/98/ME for home use and NT/2000 for professional use) became one with Windows XP.

The 377 units originally ran Mitrac on Windows 95

 

[D7666]

I'd be extremely surprised if any of the TCMS modules in the Coradias ran Windows 95, which was for home users. Windows NT 4 was would have been used instead, which looked almost identical to the untrained eye but was a far more robust operating system.

The two code bases (95/98/ME for home use and NT/2000 for professional use) became one with Windows XP.

I did see the moderator comment above about keeping to 458s so this does refer to 458s in reference.

Definitely Windows 95 on many contemporary EMU if not actually on Coradias generally or specifically on 458s.


On Electrostars for sure : embedded W95. W95 etc is for any user who chooses to use it and how they deploy it. Embed it. Lock it down. Embedded locked down W95 is phenomenally stable. To say W95 etc is for home users as if for nothing else is wrong; what one user or on client does for themselves does not apply everywhere else.

How M$ marketed and targetted home and business customers is irrelevant - who buys and deploys it is. We do it all the time both ourselves and through suppliers. Real world railway industry has to take a fix, get that through approvals, and leave it. Hence where I am I can't actually think where we had NT anywhere but we still have CE W95 XP W7 all running the railway, trains and control systems, and, lot of W10 (embedded and not embedded) on newer kit.

But NO W11. Why ? Getting W11 approved takes time, too many hoops and swiss cheeses to jump through. At the time of approving things like 458s 375/377s when they were new, W95 or NT would have been the known o/s - anything newer too new to got approved in time - so somewhere somewhen someone took a decision, at Derby at least, 375/377 have W95. There would have been a parallel decision for 458 334 460 etc.

The other thing we do not do is upgrade. These things are not connected in any way to the outside world, absolute minimal cyber security risk. And "don't fix what ain't broke". If it works, leave it alone.

Likewise we still use 386 486 Pentium and P2 processors. In the unix/linux world, while we use at least 4 flavours of linux just on the systems I work on, none of them are current release, and, elsewhere, we do still use 1990s Solaris 2.3 on Sparcs; one whole control centre runs on it. And we got some 68000 processors elsewhere. And 9995s. I'll stop though with 6502s don't think we got any of them still around.

This is a mix of on train, trackside and central kit. Believe me, this has been my general day job for the past 22 years, maintenance support, from commissioning and BIS to obsolesence and EOL.

I can't say 100% w.r.t. to exact thread subject what is on a 458, but you can't dismiss they might have W95 or something contemporaneous for the reasons suggested.

People who work in IT tend to suggest things like that; people who spent most of their life working on industrial applications, including railways, know different by decades of experience..

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks another 458 exchange is planned for today/tomorrow.

5Z51 1250 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z51 1250 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 12/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z51 1250 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 12/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1846 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1846 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 12/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1846 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 12/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5X73 0722 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5X73 0722 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 13/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5X73 0722 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 13/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 13/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q58 1711 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 13/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P.

Realtime Trains | 5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. | 14/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M55 1708 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. on 14/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I am guessing that the delivery to Bournemouth will be 458416. I do not know which 458/5 is next to leave SWR, but 458504 is the only candidate that has not worked passenger since the new timetable commenced on Sunday.

 

[swr444]

Runours are the 458/4s will be used on suburbans as a stop gap and it looks like 8533 has been moved from its stored spot…

 

[Benno]

I am guessing that the delivery to Bournemouth will be 458416. I do not know which 458/5 is next to leave SWR, but 458504 is the only candidate that has not worked passenger since the new timetable commenced on Sunday.

458504 is the next unit to go to Widnes. It is currently in the shed at Bournemouth being prepared to go.

 

[Siemens Staines]

458504 is the next unit to go to Widnes. It is currently in the shed at Bournemouth being prepared to go.

Thank you for confirming.

 

[Goldfish62]

458504 is the next unit to go to Widnes. It is currently in the shed at Bournemouth being prepared to go.

Thanks.

So given that 27/27 units were being diagrammed on weekdays does this mean that SWR are now officially short of units?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks.

So given that 27/27 units were being diagrammed on weekdays does this mean that SWR are now officially short of units?

That leaves 26 right?

 

[Siemens Staines]

26 active units, 27 if you include 458533

I notice that the afternoon 5-car diagram 1552 Waterloo - Weybridge is a solo 450105 today. An 8-car 450 is allocated to replace 458512 on 1954 Waterloo - Guildford/ 2145 return & 2306 Waterloo - Hampton Court / 2359 return. I suspect 450s substituting for 458s is going to become more commonplace in the near future until either 701s or 458/4s enter service on regular diagrams.

 

[Jturner98]

Sorry if I’ve missed it but what’s up with 458533?

 

[wickham]

Photos pulished on other website prove that 458424 came back to Bournemouth today (13/12/23) the unit number being clearly visible. What is so surprising about this is that the unit has only been away for 24 days (and at least two of these were taken up by travelling to and fro) and that it has overtaken 458516 which went away on 12th October.
The photos prove that the unit is in SWR livery and is only 4 car, but one wonder if the full conversion has been done as it has been so quick !

 

[spark001uk]

^ Seen by myself this morning, 56081 leading with 458424 and 69008 on the rear.
.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but what’s up with 458533?

From post #1834 here it required wheelsets to be rebuilt. Not sure on the status of this now.

 

[Western Sunset]

Quite a gallery to see 458424 at Branksome...

 

[swr444]

8534 had a dragging brake and hot axle and is now stuck at feltham causing mayhem. Fire brigade are at the scene

 

[The_Train]

Which unit ended up moving north yesterday please?

 

[Goldfish62]

8534 had a dragging brake and hot axle and is now stuck at feltham causing mayhem. Fire brigade are at the scene

I wondering what the offender was. Yes, caused absolute mayhem. 90 min gap at Reading with no trains.

 

[swr444]

Which unit ended up moving north yesterday please?

If you scroll up this page you will see.

 

[The_Train]

If you scroll up this page you will see.

I can see 8504 stated as "the next to go" but I always prefer to seek clarity on what actually did go as opposed to what was planned on the basis that the railways rarely stick to a plan. I won't lie, it would have been a lot quicker for you to just tell me instead of going for the cryptic clue option

 

[WarrenTManager]

Sorry if I’ve missed it but what’s up with 458533?

It needed 7 or 8 wheelsets and the supply of that many is difficult so other units needing 1 or 2 got prioritised. Other parts got robbed as the unit sat down. All the wheels are now done. It needs some parts that won't come until the New Year now. If it had been a 455, it would have gone the way of 5722 I would say.

 

[spark001uk]

Which unit ended up moving north yesterday please?

Saw this myself lastnight, it was 8504, with 56081 leading, 69008 rear.

 

[The_Train]

Saw this myself lastnight, it was 8504, with 56081 leading, 69008 rear.

Thanks a lot

Edit: Do these units go north as a 4 car or is the 5th carriage removed at Widnes?

 

[RailWonderer]

26 active units, 27 if you include 458533

I notice that the afternoon 5-car diagram 1552 Waterloo - Weybridge is a solo 450105 today. An 8-car 450 is allocated to replace 458512 on 1954 Waterloo - Guildford/ 2145 return & 2306 Waterloo - Hampton Court / 2359 return. I suspect 450s substituting for 458s is going to become more commonplace in the near future until either 701s or 458/4s enter service on regular diagrams.

Is this the first time 458s and 450s have run the Leatherhead branch? This must be extremely rare.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Is this the first time 458s and 450s have run the Leatherhead branch? This must be extremely rare.

Happens all the time now on certain diagrams.

 

[wickham]

Does anyone know what has happened to the former "Gatwick" trailer car taken out of the 458/4 conversions ? Presumably they will go for scrap as they are unlikely to be of use to anyone else, but have they actually been scrapped and if so where ? Alternativly, they may be in store somewhere, but if so, where ? The first two were removed at Long Marston, so might still be there, but I understand subsequent ones have been removed at Widnes and I don't expect they want them there cluttering up the place there.

 

[Goldfish62]

26 active units, 27 if you include 458533

Presumably now 25 after 458534's thermal incident yesterday at Feltham.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Presumably now 25 after 458534's thermal incident yesterday at Feltham.

What was this "thermal incident"?

 

[43096]

What was this "thermal incident"?

Dragging brakes, wasn't it?