SWR EMAIL FOR EXPIRED RAILCARD NEED HELP FOR RESPONSE?

[gldnjewels1]

Hello can I kindly ask someone to help me with this situation

On the 9th of January I got stopped by a ticket inspector and he asked to see me railcard i showed my ticket and the 16-17 railcard was expired scince july 5 so that is 6 months I have been paying with a discounted price, i go from reading to Bracknell on a return ticket which was around £7 then but now has gone up to £8.10 recently, the ticket inspector took my details and in the process I lied about my age out of panick he quickly sniffed out the lie and said I should be expecting to hear from them, a couple months now and I received an email which says this

On 9th January 2025, you were questioned by a member of rail staff about an incident that occurred whilst on First MTR South Western Trains Limited property. Subsequently the matter has been passed for investigation.

On the day in question, you were stopped having produced a ticket with a railcard discount applied.

As part of this investigation, we possess the authority, in accordance with the Railway Byelaws and National Conditions of Travel 2024, to scrutinise all tickets purchased and used on the National Railway Network if an offence has taken place. We have access to Rail Industry purchase history through a data sharing agreement and are currently reviewing your ticket purchase history.



We kindly ask for your cooperation by providing any current and historical railcards since the 5th July 2024, including their start and expiry dates. You can access this information by logging into your railcard account on the railcard website here: Login (railcard.co.uk) , or your Trainline account here: (Digital Railcards : Trainline Customer Service | Help, Support and FAQs (thetrainline.com) , or if you purchased your railcard through another provider, please contact that provider. If no Railcard was held, please explicitly state this.



Please do not ignore this communication. Assistance and guidance can be obtained on the internet and from the Citizens Advice Service, here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/. You may also wish to seek independent legal advice.



South Western Railway takes fare evasion and fraud very seriously. If you fail to respond, this matter may proceed to court, and formal proceedings may follow.



As part of the investigation, you may also provide mitigation regarding your travel history which will be forwarded onto our Prosecutions Team, who review each case individually.



We kindly request that you respond by 25th March 2025 (7 days from the date of this email)



Please do not hesitate to get in touch, we are happy to assist you with any questions or worries you might have.



Please ensure that ALL details below are completed and returned to ensure our records are correct.

After reading similar cases like this I’ve come to the conclusion that I will either be paying a fine or going to court, however I want to know how to reply to this email in the best way that will reduce my chances of going to court as I’m happy with paying the fine, ( and also will the fact I lied about my age be a deciding factor in this?)

 

[Drapes]

SWR will want to recover money owed. People lying when first stopped isn’t uncommon and won’t be a factor in offering you a settlement. What you do next is important.

Send them a short concise apologetic message, provide them with any railcards you held. They’ve already obtained your ticket history. If it’s a huge amount of Journeys made they’ll probably send you a spread sheet. Providing you cooperate they will offer you a settlement.

If you want a rough idea how much it potentially will be, every ticket you purchased after your railcard expired. They will be charging you an anytime single per journey. You won’t get any credit for the tickets you purchased. They will also charge you an investigation cost which usually is about £120.

 

[gldnjewels1]

SWR will want to recover money owed. People lying when first stopped isn’t uncommon and won’t be a factor in offering you a settlement. What you do next is important.

Send them a short concise apologetic message, provide them with any railcards you held. They’ve already obtained your ticket history. If it’s a huge amount of Journeys made they’ll probably send you a spread sheet. Providing you cooperate they will offer you a settlement.

If you want a rough idea how much it potentially will be, every ticket you purchased after your railcard expired. They will be charging you an anytime single per journey. You won’t get any credit for the tickets you purchased. They will also charge you an investigation cost which usually is about £120.

Okay so about the £120 I’ve heard people say that an administrative fee is added to the fine, is that the investigation cost or a completely different cost

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay so about the £120 I’ve heard people say that an administrative fee is added to the fine, is that the investigation cost or a completely different cost

Essentially it’s the investigation cost. In reality a sum based on the time they take to look into what you did, sort out paperwork, write to you, etc etc. their admin.

Not set at £120. Some charge more some less.

 

[gldnjewels1]

Hello sorry coming back to your first message when you said they will charge an anytime single per journey, I traveled from reading to Bracknell on a return ticket which is £8.40 but if I was to take an anytime single from reading to Bracknell it would cost me £7.40 and then from Bracknell back to reading another £7.40, so essentially does that mean they will charge me £7.40 on both times instead of the return ticket?

 

[John R]

Yes, unfortunately that is how they will calculate the settlement.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello sorry coming back to your first message when you said they will charge an anytime single per journey, I traveled from reading to Bracknell on a return ticket which is £8.40 but if I was to take an anytime single from reading to Bracknell it would cost me £7.40 and then from Bracknell back to reading another £7.40, so essentially does that mean they will charge me £7.40 on both times instead of the return ticket?

Unfortunately yes - you should work to this assumption in terms of the money you will need to have available if they offer you a settlement out of court in exchange for not prosecuting you and you getting a court fine.

Essentially the Anytime Single is the 'standard' are - all other types are discounted in some way or another from that. By charging this fare there is an element of the punitive about this which I'm sure the railway sees as a way of disincetivising the sort of thing you did - either accidentally or deliberately. And of course they have people 'over a barrel' because they can prosecute for the instance anyone is stooped and it can be proven they were travelling without a correct ticket - which in England is a criminal record and thus can be sent to magistrates court.

 

[gldnjewels1]

Okay damn! That changes a lot of things, is there anyway I could pay in instalments or any cases like that happening

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay damn! That changes a lot of things, is there anyway I could pay in instalments or any cases like that happening

Installments are rarely offered because this is more hassle for them as they have to check regular payments etc and makes it more difficult for them to prosecute if part way through the payment plan you default or go AWOL - so even if they did offer them they would probably charge more 'admin'. You could ask at the appropriate stage I suppose - we do very occasionally see them with some train companies

By contrast if I went to court you can pay court fines in instalments - but a) the fines etc from the court will likely be more money and b) that involves getting a criminal record which most people want to avoid

So I would be suggesting you need to start to think about all legitimate ways in which you can save or obtain the money, perhaps speaking to friends or family if they can lend it you.

 

[Knoodlepot]

Okay damn! That changes a lot of things, is there anyway I could pay in instalments or any cases like that happening

There is no harm in asking.
I know my company will accept installments unfortunately not who you are dealing with.

 

[gldnjewels1]

Ok sorry for all the questions but how long do they usually give you to pay of a case like this from the day the fine is issued

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok sorry for all the questions but how long do they usually give you to pay of a case like this from the day the fine is issued

Not very much time at all - think 14 to 21 days to pay if they offer the settlement - look at some other SWR threads to get the idea

 

[Gloster]

Just one comment: I have noticed that South Western Railway seem to be the company that are most likely to charge more than the usual £120-150 for costs. This isn’t always the case, but should be kept in mind,

 

[gldnjewels1]

This is my draft of what I’m going to say can anyone please confirm if it’s a good email

Attached ref (xxxxxxxxxx)

Dear (name on the email)

I’m writing in response to the notice of intention to prosecute regarding the incident on the 9th of January 2025

On the 9th of January on my way back to reading station from Bracknell, I was asked by Swr staff to present my ticket, the gentleman scanned it and we both noticed the 16-17 railcard had expired he pulled me to one side and asked for my details. I was unaware my railcard had expired and did not have any intention of not paying the correct fare.

I offered the officer to pay for the full ticket price but quickly discovered that is not how it works, as I had already travelled without a valid one, which I completely understand, Trainline automatically applied the railcard discount and gave me no notification it had expired, however it was completely my responsibility to check this before purchasing the ticket

I want to apologise sincerely for this careless mistake and realise the actions like mine have on south western railways
as they are not getting the true price of the ticket and I immediately created a new trainline account so I could not accidentally buy a discounted ticket again. I’ve also seen the same staff member on a number of occasions since the event and provided a valid ticket to him on all occasions.

I would be extremely grateful if it would be possible to settle this matter with you directly without the need for court action, and I’m willing to pay any outstanding fares and administrative costs incurred

I appreciate your time and your consideration for this matter.

Yours sincerely

 

[Hadders]

I think the letter is fine. I'd consider removing the bit about creating a new Trainline account (not sure why you needed to do this as you can buy undiscounted tickets in your existing account).

SWR do not offer payment plans (another thread involving SWR mentions that they were refused a payment plan by SWR but for an additional £35 they will refer you to a debt management service!)