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SWR - Further Timetable Reductions from 17/1

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geoffk

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Sounds about right as the forerunner of the half-hourly Axminster - Exeter plan.
There have been route learners recently but, as some have run to Yeovil Jn and Castle Cary, I wondered if it was more about Inter-City diversions than the planned Devon Metro.
 
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dk1

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There have been route learners recently but, as some have run to Yeovil Jn and Castle Cary, I wondered if it was more about Inter-City diversions than the planned Devon Metro.
Could well be. Seems to fit perfectly one day on the end of the Barnstaple.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Six services are being reinstated. It’s a start! Copied from SWR news release link on Twitter

Latest update​

Having seen an increase in staff availability over recent days, we’re pleased to be able to reintroduce the following key services from Monday 24 January:

Morning peak​

  • 05:55 Weymouth to Southampton.
  • 06:50 Farnham to London Waterloo.
  • 07:30 Shepperton to London Waterloo.
  • Additional calls at Weybridge (07:25) and Walton-on-Thames (07:28) for service into London Waterloo.

Evening peak​

  • The 17:20 London Waterloo to Salisbury service will run through to Exeter St David’s.
  • 17:41 London Waterloo to Basingstoke service, with calls at Surbiton and Farnborough.
  • 17:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton.
SE restoring their Dec21 timetable from 31st Jan so that should be an indicator that DofT isn't pursuing a reduced timetable indefinitely and SWR will be allowed to do same. Whether it has enough stock left to do so is another matter.
 

Goldfish62

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SE restoring their Dec21 timetable from 31st Jan so that should be an indicator that DofT isn't pursuing a reduced timetable indefinitely and SWR will be allowed to do same. Whether it has enough stock left to do so is another matter.
Well, that's encouraging. However, DfT seems to be treating each TOC differently as regards service cuts so I wouldn't necessarily bet on restoration of the timetable quickly.
 
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Six services are being reinstated. It’s a start! Copied from SWR news release link on Twitter

Latest update​

Having seen an increase in staff availability over recent days, we’re pleased to be able to reintroduce the following key services from Monday 24 January:

Morning peak​

  • 05:55 Weymouth to Southampton.
  • 06:50 Farnham to London Waterloo.
  • 07:30 Shepperton to London Waterloo.
  • Additional calls at Weybridge (07:25) and Walton-on-Thames (07:28) for service into London Waterloo.

Evening peak​

  • The 17:20 London Waterloo to Salisbury service will run through to Exeter St David’s.
  • 17:41 London Waterloo to Basingstoke service, with calls at Surbiton and Farnborough.
  • 17:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton.

Does anyone know whether these extra Morning peak services actually ran this morning? RTT shows all three as CANcelled today, but I know that RTT is not always correct when cancelled trains become un-cancelled at the last minute. However there were a few other services that did run additionally this morning

0510 Waterloo - Twickenham
0605 Twickenham - Waterloo
0715 Waterloo - Waterloo (Hounslow loop)
0730 Dorking - Waterloo

and a few more look like they are planned to run for this evening
1707 Waterloo - Waterloo (Hounslow loop)
1754 Waterloo - Dorking
1845 Waterloo - Waterloo (Hounslow loop)
 

infobleep

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I thought trains between Farnham and Guildford were hourly but it seems during some hours of the day they are every half hour, as they usually are it isn solely in the peak though and some peak hours it is hourly. So there is a mix of hourly and half-hourly cords both peak and off-peak.
 

Dibbo4025

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Does anyone know whether these extra Morning peak services actually ran this morning? RTT shows all three as CANcelled today, but I know that RTT is not always correct when cancelled trains become un-cancelled at the last minute. However there were a few other services that did run additionally this morning
The VSTP schedules these services were to run to were never put into TRUST, the only schedules in for these time will be the WTT schedules, cancelled for the period the emergency timetable is in force. Believe all ran although the extra calls at Weybridge and Walton didn't due to confusion caused by the missing schedules
 

TEW

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I thought trains between Farnham and Guildford were hourly but it seems during some hours of the day they are every half hour, as they usually are it isn solely in the peak though and some peak hours it is hourly. So there is a mix of hourly and half-hourly cords both peak and off-peak.
1 of the 3 diagrams on the Farnham-Guildford and Aldershot-Ascot routes is missing so you get alternating hourly and half-hourly gaps all day. It's not a paticularly useful service pattern.
 

73128

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Last weekend was 2tph from EPS to RAY, and bustitution only from CSS. For those of us on the Chessington branch, 1tph from CSS to RAY is a definate improvement from last weekend. Twenty minutes from CSS to RAY hourly, as opposed to around 45 minutes on a bus despite it running twice hourly makes better service for most.
and Chessington branch customers are not that far (eg by TfL buses) from Surbiton and New Malden (also Worcester Park from the Malden Manor area)

Why do they not just run the trains which do serve Poole through to Waterloo? It must surely be possible to path one train per hour through from Weymouth to Waterloo even with reduced train crew.

Same goes for the lack of through trains through Salisbury. Could they not keep the through services (even at half normal frequency) with a crew change at Salisbury and Bournemouth, respectively, if that makes things easier?

(Sorry if this is a silly question!)



Is that still the 0400? I remember the existence of that throughout the 80s (though obviously never used it). The pattern for the stoppers used to be 0400, 0520, 0600 then generally half hourly but with some missing journeys in the peak to allow paths to be used by services from Portsmouth.
the splitting of services at Bournemouth and Salisbury was designed to avoid having to have staff there to couple and uncouple trains, since formations west are often shorter. Those stations are better places to have to change than, for example, Poole, with much better facilities and shelter.
 
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The VSTP schedules these services were to run to were never put into TRUST, the only schedules in for these time will be the WTT schedules, cancelled for the period the emergency timetable is in force. Believe all ran although the extra calls at Weybridge and Walton didn't due to confusion caused by the missing schedules

Thanks for this. It is a little difficult trying to work out what is and what isn't running. There are some VSTP trains on RTT that are not in the SWR summary of re-instated services, some services that are in the summary but not RTT as you have explained, and at least one service that isn't in either but did appear to run; 0845 Waterloo - Waterloo (via Hounslow). I only picked up the latter from opentrainsmaps because 2R15 showed as the set to form 2H93 in platform 24.
 

Falcon1200

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The VSTP schedules these services were to run to were never put into TRUST, the only schedules in for these time will be the WTT schedules, cancelled for the period the emergency timetable is in force.

That's surprising; Although, when a booked service is a planned cancellation but is then re-instated Network Rail Control is required to input a VSTP schedule, it should be a simple matter of copying the WTT schedule and not therefore hugely time consuming ?
 

infobleep

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1 of the 3 diagrams on the Farnham-Guildford and Aldershot-Ascot routes is missing so you get alternating hourly and half-hourly gaps all day. It's not a paticularly useful service pattern.
That makes sense now.

The VSTP schedules these services were to run to were never put into TRUST, the only schedules in for these time will be the WTT schedules, cancelled for the period the emergency timetable is in force. Believe all ran although the extra calls at Weybridge and Walton didn't due to confusion caused by the missing schedules
Do these additional trains show up on National Rail Enquiries live departure boards? What about station departure horses on the route?
 

Meglos

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and Chessington branch customers are not that far (eg by TfL buses) from Surbiton and New Malden (also Worcester Park from the Malden Manor area)
Except that the main line was closed between Surbiton and Clapham Junction, so getting to Surbiton or New Malden would have been of no benefit to Chessington Branch customers. At least getting to Raynes Park saves 30 or so minutes of bustitution from Chessington South.
 

MontyP

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I was checking tomorrow's timetables (Saturday, 22/1) for engineering works.

Seems like the Guildford stopping service (via Effingham) is down to 1 tph on Saturday, i.e. 1 tph between Guildford and Raynes Park.
From 4 tph pre-covid to 3 tph post-covid to 1 tph this Saturday. No SWR services to Dorking either.

Surprisingly, this is worse than the Sunday engineering timetable (23/1), which has 2 tph on the Guildford stoppers (which is also the usual non-engineering works frequency)

So I'm expecting the Southern services from Epsom/Dorking to London to be rammed this Saturday, especially the pre-lunchtime period, i.e 10am-12.
There were only 2tph Guildford-Waterloo via Epsom even in pre-Covid times. Also 2 via Cobham - so I guess that gives 4 via Effingham. However it wouldn't be possible to run Guildford-RP via Cobham as there is no turnback at RP platform 2 or 3, and no easy way of crossing over the 4 track formation. The one per hour via Epsom can turn round in platform 1 and use the crossover on the 2 track section between RP and Motspur Park.
 
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SWR have updated their summary of services re-introduced yesterday;

"Having seen an increase in staff availability over recent days, we’re pleased to be able to reintroduce the following key services:

Morning peak​

  • 05:10 London Waterloo to Twickenham via Brentford
  • 05:33 Epsom to London Waterloo
  • 05:55 Weymouth to Southampton
  • 06:05 Twickenham to London Waterloo via Brentford
  • 06:50 Farnham to London Waterloo
  • 06:54 Basingstoke to London Waterloo
  • 07:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Twickenham and Brentford
  • 07:30 Shepperton to London Waterloo
  • 07:30 Dorking to London Waterloo
  • Additional calls at Weybridge (07:25) and Walton-on-Thames (07:28) for service into London Waterloo
  • 08:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Richmond

Evening peak​

  • 17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Brentford and Twickenham
  • The 17:20 London Waterloo to Salisbury service will run through to Exeter St Davids
  • 17:41 London Waterloo to Basingstoke service, with calls at Surbiton and Farnborough
  • 17:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton
  • 17:54 London Waterloo to Dorking
  • 18:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Brentford and Twickenham
  • 20:42 London Waterloo to Basingstoke"
But this list still doesn't include everything. The following also ran yesterday evening or this morning

0924 Waterloo - Alton
1836 Shepperton - Waterloo
1854 Basingstoke - Waterloo

There may be other services that I have not spotted.
 

Michael B

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I travelled from Guildford to Dawlish yesterday via Woking and Exeter St Davids, my first time on this temporary timetable, was on the 1Z89 13.46 from Woking. It added around 75 minutes to the journey time that was normal before 17th January. This is made up from a 30 minute dwell at Salisbury, another 15 minute dwell at Pinhoe, then an arrival at Exeter St Davids which saw the tail-lights of the Paignton train leaving the station seconds after our arrival. Then a 28 minutes wait for the next Paignton service which itself dwelled at Dawlish Warren for 17 minutes! The most frustrating part was the dwell at Pinhoe where the Paignton service crossed the junction ahead of 1Z89. I am guessing that delay has something to do with the SWR stock going into the siding at Exeter St Davids after arrival on Platform 1?

It is frustrating for a journey to take 6 hours 20 minutes door to door when I can drive it in half that time (A303 permitting). It is also difficult to understand why the WoE line weekday service is one train every two hours but Saturdays seem to be the normal hourly service. I did note that there were no more than five passengers in the front coach after Salisbury!
 

RPI

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I travelled from Guildford to Dawlish yesterday via Woking and Exeter St Davids, my first time on this temporary timetable, was on the 1Z89 13.46 from Woking. It added around 75 minutes to the journey time that was normal before 17th January. This is made up from a 30 minute dwell at Salisbury, another 15 minute dwell at Pinhoe, then an arrival at Exeter St Davids which saw the tail-lights of the Paignton train leaving the station seconds after our arrival. Then a 28 minutes wait for the next Paignton service which itself dwelled at Dawlish Warren for 17 minutes! The most frustrating part was the dwell at Pinhoe where the Paignton service crossed the junction ahead of 1Z89. I am guessing that delay has something to do with the SWR stock going into the siding at Exeter St Davids after arrival on Platform 1?

It is frustrating for a journey to take 6 hours 20 minutes door to door when I can drive it in half that time (A303 permitting). It is also difficult to understand why the WoE line weekday service is one train every two hours but Saturdays seem to be the normal hourly service. I did note that there were no more than five passengers in the front coach after Salisbury!
The current WoE service west of Salisbury is an absolute farce!
 

infobleep

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I travelled from Guildford to Dawlish yesterday via Woking and Exeter St Davids, my first time on this temporary timetable, was on the 1Z89 13.46 from Woking. It added around 75 minutes to the journey time that was normal before 17th January. This is made up from a 30 minute dwell at Salisbury, another 15 minute dwell at Pinhoe, then an arrival at Exeter St Davids which saw the tail-lights of the Paignton train leaving the station seconds after our arrival. Then a 28 minutes wait for the next Paignton service which itself dwelled at Dawlish Warren for 17 minutes! The most frustrating part was the dwell at Pinhoe where the Paignton service crossed the junction ahead of 1Z89. I am guessing that delay has something to do with the SWR stock going into the siding at Exeter St Davids after arrival on Platform 1?

It is frustrating for a journey to take 6 hours 20 minutes door to door when I can drive it in half that time (A303 permitting). It is also difficult to understand why the WoE line weekday service is one train every two hours but Saturdays seem to be the normal hourly service. I did note that there were no more than five passengers in the front coach after Salisbury!
I wonder if that is because people are driving instead or no one wants to travel? It's probably a mix of both but I wonder what the bigger driving factor out of the two is. No pun intended.
 

444045

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Yesterday I travelled up on 1W52 0922 Bournemouth to Waterloo formed 10x444 (43/25) and the train was full and standing after we left
Southampton Central and only got worse the further up towards Waterloo. Situation not helped by rear unit in reverse formation and 1st
class at the front full up meant people walking to the other end of the train, getting out at stations and walking down the platforms instead
of through the train!!!

What annoyed me even further when a friend who works for SWR told me that at a number of traincrew depots, between 20 - 30 drivers and guards are signing on remotely from home - Monday to Friday and getting paid for it!!!

If thats the case then I can see no valid staff sickness reason for the proper timetable to be reintroduced a.s.a.p.
 

[.n]

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Yesterday I travelled up on 1W52 0922 Bournemouth to Waterloo formed 10x444 (43/25) and the train was full and standing after we left
Southampton Central and only got worse the further up towards Waterloo. Situation not helped by rear unit in reverse formation and 1st
class at the front full up meant people walking to the other end of the train, getting out at stations and walking down the platforms instead
of through the train!!!

What annoyed me even further when a friend who works for SWR told me that at a number of traincrew depots, between 20 - 30 drivers and guards are signing on remotely from home - Monday to Friday and getting paid for it!!!

If thats the case then I can see no valid staff sickness reason for the proper timetable to be reintroduced a.s.a.p.
If the rear unit has 1st class at the front (ie coach 6 in the 10 car), then it was in the correct place [though I realise your sentence might also read to mean that it was in coach 10
 

444045

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If the rear unit has 1st class at the front (ie coach 6 in the 10 car), then it was in the correct place [though I realise your sentence might also read to mean that it was in coach 10
Apologises if I didnt make that clear. The 1st class coaches were in 1 & 10 as U.444025 was in reverse formation.

My main reason for writing was - SWR are running a covid special timetable because of staff shortages which isn't true as traincrews
are booking on from home, so there are plenty of them. Why then cannot they return to a NORMAL timetable a.s.a.p. ??
 

Goldfish62

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Apologises if I didnt make that clear. The 1st class coaches were in 1 & 10 as U.444025 was in reverse formation.

My main reason for writing was - SWR are running a covid special timetable because of staff shortages which isn't true as traincrews
are booking on from home, so there are plenty of them. Why then cannot they return to a NORMAL timetable a.s.a.p. ??
Because they're saving money either with the blessing of or under instruction from the DfT.
 

infobleep

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Because they're saving money either with the blessing of or under instruction from the DfT.
When I mentioned this in another thread on SWR, references were made to the covid pandemic leading to staff shortages, as can be seen in the post I've linked go.


I don't disagree there have been covid shortages but it didn't appear to be a big issue for SWR when they introduced this reduced timetable I love having more fast trains from Guildford to Clapham Junction and I fully accept that wouldn't be the case when this timetable goes back to the previous timetable.

If they felt too many trains were being run than was needed and/or they need to have money by running less of them then I can understand that viewpoint more than staff shortages.
 

Clarence Yard

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Apologises if I didnt make that clear. The 1st class coaches were in 1 & 10 as U.444025 was in reverse formation.

My main reason for writing was - SWR are running a covid special timetable because of staff shortages which isn't true as traincrews
are booking on from home, so there are plenty of them. Why then cannot they return to a NORMAL timetable a.s.a.p. ??

They aren’t running a COVID timetable because of an ACTUAL shortage of train crew. It (and others) were instructed by the DfT to put in a COVID secure timetable by the 17th Jan that would run, even if 10-15% of their staff had COVID. If staff were spare, all the better because it would guarantee the advertised reduced service would actually run. This service was due to run until the end of Feb and then it would revert to the December 2021 TT, if resources allowed it.

The DfT now want to bring that end date forward by a week or two and TOCs are under DfT instruction to manage overcrowding by inserting extra trains, if they can. Most TOCs can’t just switch back to the December 2021 TT at a moments notice, because of rostering, so it will be interesting to see how SWR manage this, with disruptive engineering work, a shortage of trained crew and the 701 saga. 21st February has been quoted on the railway grapevine as the likely date that the DfT currently want SWR to revert.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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What annoyed me even further when a friend who works for SWR told me that at a number of traincrew depots, between 20 - 30 drivers and guards are signing on remotely from home - Monday to Friday and getting paid for it!!!

If thats the case then I can see no valid staff sickness reason for the proper timetable to be reintroduced a.s.a.p.
Well the 1452 WAT-WYB was a 26L start yesterday due to awaiting a driver so not much use having them all at home but neither is it sensible to have them all together in the mess room either. Train then non stop to Staines to get back on schedule where it than sat for its allotted 26mins before returning. Service on Hounslow Loop already decimated by reduced timetable and no attempt by SWR to serve its passengers no doubt need to have it on time at destination so PPM is kept high so they earn their bonus fee from DofT.
 

infobleep

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They aren’t running a COVID timetable because of an ACTUAL shortage of train crew. It (and others) were instructed by the DfT to put in a COVID secure timetable by the 17th Jan that would run, even if 10-15% of their staff had COVID. If staff were spare, all the better because it would guarantee the advertised reduced service would actually run. This service was due to run until the end of Feb and then it would revert to the December 2021 TT, if resources allowed it.

The DfT now want to bring that end date forward by a week or two and TOCs are under DfT instruction to manage overcrowding by inserting extra trains, if they can. Most TOCs can’t just switch back to the December 2021 TT at a moments notice, because of rostering, so it will be interesting to see how SWR manage this, with disruptive engineering work, a shortage of trained crew and the 701 saga. 21st February has been quoted on the railway grapevine as the likely date that the DfT currently want SWR to revert.
I'm not saying it was possible but it seems like they needed the covid secure timetable to have come into play earlier and finished earlier.

It's ended up being out of step with the rise and fall of omicron.

I'm not saying this would have been possible.
 

30907

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Train then non stop to Staines to get back on schedule where it than sat for its allotted 26mins before returning. Service on Hounslow Loop already decimated by reduced timetable and no attempt by SWR to serve its passengers no doubt need to have it on time at destination so PPM is kept high so they earn their bonus fee from DofT.
Less the deduction for failing to call at umpteen intermediate stations. So there may have been a reason - for example, because there was another train 4min later, or because passengers might want to use the train from Staines to Weybridge near its booked time.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I'm not saying it was possible but it seems like they needed the covid secure timetable to have come into play earlier and finished earlier.

It's ended up being out of step with the rise and fall of omicron.

I'm not saying this would have been possible.
Well the DofT probably still doesn't realise you can't just flick a switch and change everything overnight and by the time they called it planning teams would have been dealing with Xmas engineering works then Xmas holidays so limited staff to work on it. In reality they would have been better just leaving things as they were as we now risked full trains and people being deterred from wanting to commute and thus setting about restoration of revenue income.
 

infobleep

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Well the DofT probably still doesn't realise you can't just flick a switch and change everything overnight and by the time they called it planning teams would have been dealing with Xmas engineering works then Xmas holidays so limited staff to work on it. In reality they would have been better just leaving things as they were as we now risked full trains and people being deterred from wanting to commute and thus setting about restoration of revenue income.
The flip side is some other TOCs might have had a lot more cancellations. No easy solution.
 

DelW

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The DfT now want to bring that end date forward by a week or two and TOCs are under DfT instruction to manage overcrowding by inserting extra trains, if they can. Most TOCs can’t just switch back to the December 2021 TT at a moments notice, because of rostering, so it will be interesting to see how SWR manage this, with disruptive engineering work, a shortage of trained crew and the 701 saga. 21st February has been quoted on the railway grapevine as the likely date that the DfT currently want SWR to revert.
It seems likely that a lot of brown stuff is going to hit SWR's fan in the next few weeks. Their "get out of jail free" card, blaming everything on staff shortages due to omicron, won't work for much longer, and it will become obvious that SWR no longer has enough rolling stock to run the timetable which will be needed beyond the end of plan B restrictions.

In the last couple of years, they have scrapped the 442s, sent two-thirds of the 707s to South Eastern, off-hired the 456s, let 455s run out of maintenance hours, and started sending 458s away for reconfiguring. All that despite there being no sign of any of the 701s being ready to enter traffic.

The current timetable is a mess, with trains just hacked out of its predecessor leaving unbalanced gaps everywhere, and normally-busy commuter routes with a pathetic 1tph peak "service". If the downturn in travel does become permanent, it will need properly reconfiguring back to something like the late 1990s version. But sadly the recent timetables seem to be designed to drive passengers away for good rather than encouraging them back.
 
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