SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next actions: 22, 27 & 31 December 2018

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by theironroad, 16 Mar 2018.

  1. Bookd

    Bookd Member

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    Fifty years ago the Green Line 715 was scheduled for just over an hour from Cobham to Marble Arch - it may have struggled then and certainly would now.
     
  2. 3141

    3141 Established Member

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    The staff are there for different reasons. On a plane you need at least two people who are able to pilot the thing, in case one of them is taken ill - there's no dead man's handle or TPWS to bring it safely to a halt. The cabin crew are there. at least partly, to keep an eye on the passengers and to make sure no-one does anything that might endanger the plane and everyone in it.

    Although air travel is nowadays very safe, the fact that it takes place 30,000 feet up makes it inherently more dangerous, I would say.

    T
     
  3. Helvellyn

    Helvellyn Established Member

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    Definitely the plane. At take-off it is a flying fuel tank!
     
  4. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    That wasn't the 1960s campaign group to turn disused railway lines into roads was it? I have a leaflet covering one campaign group as they have a talk. All before my time though.
     
  5. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Possibly. How many people would get the X68 all the way I wonder? Certainly cheaper than the train fare if one has time on their hands.
     
  6. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Well it's limited stop so there's not many other ways of using it.
     
  7. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Well the X26 Croydon to Heathrow Central is limited stops but I can assure people that it isn't solely used for end to end journeys.
     
  8. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Unfortunately such ideas shouldn’t really be ignored as being ‘before your time’ though. The so called transport expert, who still runs an “organisation” called Transport Watch, was given another opportunity to re-hash his stupid ideas during the TWA inquiry into Chiltern’s (Evergreen 3) Oxford extension. So not that long ago, only around 2012. He’s still around and will probably re-surface during the forthcoming EWR inquiry...
     
  9. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Different type of route altogether.

    The X68 is a commuter route - into London in the morning, out again in the evening. No regular service in between those times.

    The X26 is an interurban route designed to connect various towns in the south of London with each other, and Heathrow airport. It runs at a regular frequency all day (in both directions!).
     
  10. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    Ive had the misfortune of doing it once or twice and it was packed from west Norwood all the way to russel sq and there was a fair few who got on at croydon all the way too
     
  11. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    If you board at Croydon you have no choice but to go at least as far as Waterloo. It's pick up only to West Norwood, express to Waterloo then set down only. It's a busy route with many journeys often at capacity.
     
  12. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I suppose I shouldn't be surprised such people with ideas have a platform to air them but I am. Nobody's like mywelf with no power to our voice I could understand but not people with a higher voice so to speak.
     
  13. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I hadn't realised it was a commuter bus in that way. It's ceetainly good value and people woild save quite a bit on their season ticket.
     
  14. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    No. It was an altogether more dangerous organisation which proposed converting EXISTING railways into dedicated coach and bus routes including lines such as those radiating from Waterloo.

    Lest anybody dismisses them as cranks, one of its leaders was Lance Ibbotson, who was General Manager of BR Southern Region, but only showed his true colours two weeks after retirement (with a generous BR pension of course).

    This organisation, although somewhat dormant, still exists and must be relishing its chance to whisper in Ministers' ears AGAIN, with their ideas.
     
  15. 3141

    3141 Established Member

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    Possibly, but as I recall it from many years ago, they focussed on what they claimed would be the greater capacity of the roads converted from railways, while looking only, or mostly, at buses in motion along them. They didn't consider the effect of vehicles stopping at intermediate stations. They also did not consider the costs and the disruption of the conversions themselves.

    I remember one example (from fifty years ago) involving Paddington. Today, there are far more trains and we've just spent vast sums electrifying the lines. My guess is that anyone who whispered into a minister's ear that we should abandon all that investment and put passengers through several years of disruption while spending further vast sums on an unproved idea might be told where to go.

    Or take the example of Waterloo. Britain's busiest rail terminal. Tens of thousands of passengers every day travelling to Conservative-held constituencies in Surrey, Hampshire, etc. (Or, in the interests of political balance, possibly even more passengers travelling to Labour constituencies in the Greater London area and beyond.) The work that would be needed to convert it to a coach terminal would make the disruption of the part-closure in August 2017 seem like heaven, and would go on for years!
     
  16. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    All very true. I was not in any way supporting them, I was simply pointing out that they are still out there.

    As for ministers telling them where to go, with Grayling in charge and his decisions on bi-mode etc, I would rule nothing out.
     
  17. 3141

    3141 Established Member

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    Yes, I'd appreciated that you weren't supporting them, but I felt that we could get too worried about these ideas resurfacing, and that they are unlikely to get far for the reasons I've stated.

    I suppose Grayling is rather unpredictable, but if he or any other Transport Secretary suggested that the Treasury should spend the sort of money rail to road conversions would require I think he'd be told to get real.
     
  18. Bessie

    Bessie Member

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    Back on topic, are we any nearer a resolution in this dispute?
     
  19. FenMan

    FenMan Member

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    And no one was able to explain how to manage an enormous number of coaches arriving in the morning peak would be dealt with and where they would go afterwards.

    SE's railways are good at moving lots of people from commuterland to London in a short arrival window.

    Coaches? Not so much. File under cranks.
     
  20. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Doubt it. Neither side look like changing their entrenched position, as far as public announcements go...
     
  21. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    The information for this Saturday is now on the website and has been emailed out. It's highly contradictory regarding the Windsor lines.

    The map shows no service on the Hounslow loop yet the text says 2tph Waterloo - Twickenham via Hounslow. No timetable has been published.

    The text states 2tph to Windsor yet the timetable shows 1tph.

    Reading is stated as straight 2tph yet the timetable shows the additional replacement buses between Ascot and Wokingham that ran carrying fresh air last time.

    Clowns.
     
  22. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Perhaps they signed a multi-day contract.still it doesn't matter as isn't the government pick up the costs for the disruption?
     
  23. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    They've been corrected now.
     
  24. thw6

    thw6 Member

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    Although it’s a bit late, I was looking tov go to Eastleigh from Exeter St David’s via Salisbury. Would GWR let me use a network rail card on strike days to go via Westbury?
     
  25. Domeyhead

    Domeyhead Member

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    That might have something to do with the respective risks to your survival when something (very rarely) does go wrong. If I
    Intersting to wonder how the passengers would feel if after doing the compulsory safety drill the cabin crew shut themselves in at the back of the plane reading the paper until reappearing at the destination.
    It is important to be able to marshal the arguments to defend the continued existence of the railway. WHen somebody puts up some variant of the Wolmar question and asks "What are the railways for?" or "Are the railways worth keeping?" it is no good simply questioning their sanity or birthright. When you are challenged to make an economic argument, make one. Personally i think a lot of the argument for having a railway is vested in the principles of "The Social Railway" and now that we are losing that turn-up-and-go element (anyone tried getting on an XC train and sitting down?) the argument in defence of the railway needs to be remade. The continuous industrial upset on what are increasingly shown to be spurious politically driven grounds does not help in this regard.
     
  26. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I personally don't care if I see the cabin crew. They will only try to sell me something. However I do want their existence on a plane.

    Yesterday I was on Great Western Railway train and on the first one the guard didn't go down the train. However if the train had bad an OBS the person still wouldn't have gone down the train. Reason? Train packed.

    On the next train, which also was GWR train and was busy too but passable between carriages, the guard did come down the train.

    What does that tell us? That some guards walk down trains and others don't. There are a vairty of reasons why they don't and only some are because they can't be bothered. How do management force an OBS to always walk down the train. Do they lock all guard compartments they they are never allowed in and make them for drivers only?
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018
  27. kristiang85

    kristiang85 Member

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    They could have a check in point in each carriage (like security staff in offices) to show they've done a round, but I personally abhor such tracking of people in their place of work, even though I think guards should be making themselves as available as possible given how much disruption they are causing to peoples' lives.

    I personally make a point of sending customer service teams commendations for staff who go above and beyond, even if its just being very informative and apologetic when there are delays. I hope at some point it might get noticed and managers find some way of incentivising all staff to be like that.
     
  28. Statto

    Statto Established Member

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    If you have a bit of time on your hands, X68 journeys can take anything from 55 to 90 minutes, average about 70-80 minutes Croydon-Central London, i was on it myself a couple of months ago [18.10 from Russell Square] passengers were being left behind at stops once the bus got past Aldwych.
     
  29. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I wouldn't be keen on catch a bus where there was a chance I'd get left behind, especially if buses were not so frequent.

    Obviously occasional disruption aside.
     
  30. nuts & bolts

    nuts & bolts Member

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    Could you be so kind as to expand on these partiqular GWR journeys, what was the formation of the trains, and where did you board and alight.
     

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