SWR install barriers at Portsmouth Harbour despite Wightlink protests

[bigfoote]

Story in the local rag this morning concerning barriers being installed at Harbour.
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/b...a_qYxUUfHAV5s7xOy3bbXe8as0fUneuMElzuLQ923Ed50

Quoted below

Ferry operator Wightlink has hit out after train company South Western Railway (SWR) fixed the blockades at Portsmouth Harbour station.
A barrier installed at Portsmouth Harbour train station The maritime group claimed the train company had ignored its protests over the plans, which it said could cause confusion among passengers and impede people from using the ferry port. However, SWR has fired back, arguing the gates will improve security and won’t impact customers using the ferry terminal.
But Wightlink’s chief executive, Keith Greenfold, has expressed his frustration over the situation – and said legal advisers from the ferry firm had written to SWR’s managing director. Mr Greenfield said: ‘South Western Railway has installed this gateline despite our opposition to the scheme. Keith Greenfield, chief executive of Wightlink. ‘Managers at SWR first informed us of their intention to install a barrier at our regular consultation meeting with them on October 18. ‘We immediately told them this was unacceptable to Wightlink as it would impede our customers, staff and visitors from freely accessing our port and were surprised and disappointed to see this gateline has been installed. ‘Our legal advisers have written to SWR managing director Andy Mellors to advise him of our concern and ask him to remove the structure, pending further discussions.’
SWR said the new gates would help to clampdown on the number of people dodging train fares. The company insisted the gates – which aren’t yet fully installed = could go nowhere else in the station, citing the current location as the best one available. AN SWR spokesman said: ‘We recognise Wightlink’s concerns and have been trying to address them by offering a variety of opportunities that would allow passengers to purchase ferry tickets on entering the station. ‘While the gates are being installed in line with our franchise commitment, we have offered to leave them open and non-operational while talks continue.’ Why Saturday is a big day for our small businesses Former Royal Navy servicemen open distillery to represent home city of... Wightlink said passengers using its services had a legal right to pass through the gateline to reach the FastCat terminal at all times. SWR said passengers who use the trains to travel to or from the ferries will be unimpeded by the gates. It added the company had ‘assured Wightlink’ that passengers who are solely using the ferries will be permitted free access through the gate to reach the ferries or leave the station. There will be a member of the SWR stations team controlling the gates at all times when they are in operation.

 

[theironroad]

All I can say is that number of people telling the gateline staff that they want to access the wightlink ticket office is going to rocket without any more people taking to the sea......

 

[gordonthemoron]

ridiculous

 

[moley]

Passengers are also up in arms at ticket barriers being installed at Fratton station two stops up the line.

Here, about 60% of the station footfall arrives from Goldsmith Avenue via a bridge over the station. The bridge is legacy railway infrastructure however to save shutting the bridge at night an agreement was entered into with the local council to make it a public right of way maintained at railway expense.

SWR are installing ticket barriers in the ticket office which is situated in a dead-end road on the opposite side of the station. SWR have therefore announced that the exit from the country bound island platforms to the bridge will be closed along with the direct entrance to the London bound platform alongside the ticket office.

SWR are adamant that passengers can use the newer bridge half way along the island platform to take them to the ticket office, through the barriers and then back up over the existing bridge. A journey extended by 200m and four flights of stairs instead of one. SWT tried something similar 10 years ago with the installation of a metal cage to require passenger flow via the ticket office and removed it after 4 weeks of use as it was so unpopular.

Except on football days (when the original entrances will be open), the country bound island platform is predominantly exit only as Fratton is an access point rather than a destination. Passengers fail to see why the exit direct to the existing footbridge cannot have two exit only ticket gates. Due to the nature of the stairs, a wide isle gate is not necessary and neither disabled, mums with buggies or those with luggage would use the exit.

 

[sprunt]

Can anyone with knowledge of the station provide a bit of context around this dispute? Why is the installation of the barriers a problem for Wightlink? How will the barrier "cause confusion among passengers and impede people from using the ferry port"? Is access to the ferry port via the station platforms or something like that? The station map isn't hugely helpful - where on that map are these barriers being installed?

 

[Harlequin]

I've lived in Fratton and the Isle of Wight previously, as well as being a regular commuter on this line, and I honestly can't fathom the benefit of these barriers.

The ones at Portsmouth Harbour seem to serve no purpose other than to catch people trying to exit the station without a ticket at PMH - which is going to be pretty much limited to Gunwharf customers and Gosport residents. There remains an easy (on the face of it) way for non-ticket-holders to get into the station through the barrier by stating an intention to purchase a Wightlink ticket at the terminal and I honestly can't foresee how this is going to be policed. Actually, what's to stop people saying they're leaving the station having arrived on a Wightlink service? Is there any obligation for a passenger to retain their Wightlink ticket in order to pass through the barriers at PMH? Also, having to have staff manually open the barriers after an explanation could also result in missed ferries, which can be as infrequent as one per hour.

Don't even get me started on the plan for Fratton. It's going to be chaos on matchdays and probably other peak times.

I often travel on a four carriage SWR train from Swanwick to Fratton (evening peak) and would aver that my ticket is checked no more than 5% of the time. It almost begrudges me to pay for a ticket when a lot of my fellow passengers will chance it and then be allowed to purchase on board in the unlikely event that a check is carried out, but I can't help but think that SWR are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut here. It's annoyed me a bit.

 

[Harlequin]

Can anyone with knowledge of the station provide a bit of context around this dispute? Why is the installation of the barriers a problem for Wightlink? How will the barrier "cause confusion among passengers and impede people from using the ferry port"? Is access to the ferry port via the station platforms or something like that? The station map isn't hugely helpful - where on that map are these barriers being installed?

Access to the Wightlink ferry involves entering the station through the main entrance and walking along Platform 1 to the end of the platforms, which is where the ferry terminal is located. It looks as though the barriers have been installed at the "doors" area on the station map, although I may be wrong.

 

[DarloRich]

Can anyone with knowledge of the station provide a bit of context around this dispute? Why is the installation of the barriers a problem for Wightlink? How will the barrier "cause confusion among passengers and impede people from using the ferry port"? Is access to the ferry port via the station platforms or something like that? The station map isn't hugely helpful - where on that map are these barriers being installed?

yes you have to access the platforms to reach the landing stage and ferry ticket office

 

[AM9]

yes you have to access the platforms to reach the landing stage and ferry ticket office

Wasn't that a legacy from when the IoW ferries were operated by the three Sealink boats, (Brading, Shanklin and Southsea) when Sealinik was a part of BR. Through ticketing wasn't a problem then so the ferry access was below the ends of the rail platforms.

 

[theironroad]

Wasn't that a legacy from when the IoW ferries were operated by the three Sealink boats, (Brading, Shanklin and Southsea) when Sealinik was a part of BR. Through ticketing wasn't a problem then so the ferry access was below the ends of the rail platforms.

And it still won't be a problem. If someone buys a through ticket from say London to shanklin, they will not see or experience one bit of difference to their journey today as after the barriers go live as they won't even see them.

 

[theironroad]

I've lived in Fratton and the Isle of Wight previously, as well as being a regular commuter on this line, and I honestly can't fathom the benefit of these barriers.

The ones at Portsmouth Harbour seem to serve no purpose other than to catch people trying to exit the station without a ticket at PMH - which is going to be pretty much limited to Gunwharf customers and Gosport residents. There remains an easy (on the face of it) way for non-ticket-holders to get into the station through the barrier by stating an intention to purchase a Wightlink ticket at the terminal and I honestly can't foresee how this is going to be policed. Actually, what's to stop people saying they're leaving the station having arrived on a Wightlink service? Is there any obligation for a passenger to retain their Wightlink ticket in order to pass through the barriers at PMH? Also, having to have staff manually open the barriers after an explanation could also result in missed ferries, which can be as infrequent as one per hour.

Don't even get me started on the plan for Fratton. It's going to be chaos on matchdays and probably other peak times.

I often travel on a four carriage SWR train from Swanwick to Fratton (evening peak) and would aver that my ticket is checked no more than 5% of the time. It almost begrudges me to pay for a ticket when a lot of my fellow passengers will chance it and then be allowed to purchase on board in the unlikely event that a check is carried out, but I can't help but think that SWR are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut here. It's annoyed me a bit.

Talk about can't win.....

You begrudge buying a ticket when others don't and when swr try to do something about it at Fratton and the harbour to try and reduce ticket less travel you moan then too. The world hasn't fallen in since barriers were installed at Southsea a few years back .

 

[Right Away]

You only have to look at the queues of ticketless people on the Southampton bound platform at Cosham when there is a revenue block on to get an idea of ticketless travel from the Portsmouth area.

 

[Chris125]

SWR must know that putting the Catamaran behind a barrier line is ridiculous and unworkable, ploughing on regardless will do nothing but waste a lot of time and money.

 

[greaterwest]

Ah, ticket barriers at the Harbour. That'll be just as pointless as the ones at Guildford then, where all you need to do is state you're going to the other side of the station to be let in and given a bridge pass.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there really not enough room to split the side of platform 1 into a paid side and passage to the ferry terminal?

A better way of setting up would be to gate the entry to platforms 2 to 5 at the ferry terminal end, put a barrier the length of platform 1 up to the ticket office and then put a second gateline at the meeting point of the ticket office and the northern end of platform 1.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is there really not enough room to split the side of platform 1 into a paid side and passage to the ferry terminal?

A better way of setting up would be to gate the entry to platforms 2 to 5 at the ferry terminal end, put a barrier the length of platform 1 up to the ticket office and then put a second gateline at the meeting point of the ticket office and the northern end of platform 1.

Yes, but that would probably cost more than the half-arsed solution being pursued here. SWR have admitted in relation to other stations that many of these barriers are not there to actually prevent fare evasion, but because they are required to barrier a certain number of stations (or indeed specified stations) by their franchise agreement.

 

[Helvellyn]

Shutting platform 1 and reopening platform 2 might have been a better solution. But that would still need something done with the footbridge at the London end of the platform.

However, given the width of platform 1 splitting it in half might have been a better option. But that cost money for some decent height glass barriers.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Story in the local rag this morning concerning barriers being installed at Harbour.
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/b...a_qYxUUfHAV5s7xOy3bbXe8as0fUneuMElzuLQ923Ed50

Quoted below

Good for SWR. it's absolutely right that they take these steps to protect their revenue. My only question is, why is it already scuffed?

 

[sbt]

The Fratton one is going to be fun, given that the new bridge exits on to Plat 1 at a pinch point created by the vending machines and the two bridges together have problems coping when two trains arrive at Plat 2 and 3.

Plus it looks like the toilets, like the shop, will be on the 'public' side of the barriers - but that's not much of a loss as 50% of the time they are closed 'due to vandalism' (oddly I never see any sign of damage or repairs when I use them).

With ref to PH, putting someone else's business, including their booking office, behind your barriers doesn't seem that clever. Not all passengers are 'through ticket'. SWR revenue is protected, including (I cynically note) that from through WightLink tickets, but not WightLinks revenue from non-rail passengers.

Note that WightLink are in competition with the Hovercraft for foot passengers from Portsmouth to the IoW.

 

[sbt]

You only have to look at the queues of ticketless people on the Southampton bound platform at Cosham when there is a revenue block on to get an idea of ticketless travel from the Portsmouth area.

Ticketless or people with tickets waiting to have them checked?

By your count I am a serial fare evader, likely to be caught up in a queue to have my ticket checked several times a month.

(ps. user of Cosham Station here, so doubly damned)

 

[ess]

Is the franchise commitment to install barriers or to install and use them?

 

[IceAgeComing]

Good for SWR. it's absolutely right that they take these steps to protect their revenue. My only question is, why is it already scuffed?

Here it doesn't do that though; since all access to the Whitelink terminal is through the section of the station that they are putting behind the barriers so they basically have to let anyone through who says that they're going to the Whitelink terminus - can't do ticket checks on those since the Whitelink ticket office in Portsmouth is beyond that. In order for this to make sense you'd need to spend significant amounts of money providing a separate public access for non-rail passengers to Whitelink which would cost a lot of money and probably be less useful for everyone than the status quo.

So effectively they are spending a lot of money on ticket barriers that are likely not going to catch anyone trying to evade fares from this particular station since anyone in the know will use the Isle of Wight ferry as their excuse; and how are they going to know whether or not a person is telling the truth or not? And frankly that's probably where a significant chunk of people travelling to and from Portsmouth Harbour by either train or other means go anyway so its not like they'd quickly notice a small number of people doing the "just going through to Whitelink?" trick and then getting on trains since they'll be hidden by the legitimate people who're actually travelling to the Island.

 

[scrapy]

Is the franchise commitment to install barriers or to install and use them?

They are required to be operational between 06.00 and 22.00 Monday to Friday. There is no requirement for them to be operational at weekends.

 

[Meerkat]

Why does a franchisee need to be told to install barriers? Is it just that the payback is longer than the franchise?

 

[HowardGWR]

Good for SWR. it's absolutely right that they take these steps to protect their revenue. My only question is, why is it already scuffed?

What does 'scuffed' mean in this context? Never heard that one.

By the way. Is there a right of way at the Harbour station?

 

[moley]

Plus it looks like the toilets, like the shop, will be on the 'public' side of the barriers - but that's not much of a loss as 50% of the time they are closed 'due to vandalism' (oddly I never see any sign of damage or repairs when I use them).

With ref to PH, putting someone else's business, including their booking office, behind your barriers doesn't seem that clever. Not all passengers are 'through ticket'. SWR revenue is protected, including (I cynically note) that from through WightLink tickets, but not WightLinks revenue from non-rail passengers.

At Fratton, there are due to be glass panels put up to place the toilets and shop on the railway side of the barriers. The description I was given was that the barriers would sit in line with the exit to platform one but just inside the ticket office so that they could be concealed by a roller shutter when closed. To the shop end of the ticket barriers, a glass panel will stretch back to the outside wall. Access to toilets and shop will therefore be via the doors slightly further up the platform. It did look like the shop has had its roller shutter moved closer to the shop side of the door so it may even be that the toilets/waiting room will be open when the shop isn't.

As for PH: apparently there is an existing agreement which requires no ticket barriers between the railway and the Wightlink entrance. I'm guessing this is a hangover from the past. PH was previously due barriers in the last SWT franchise however this agreement stopped them being put in.

Why does a franchisee need to be told to install barriers? Is it just that the payback is longer than the franchise?

Franchisee is not told to install ticket barriers, it was part of their franchise application. Accordingly the requirement has made it into the franchise agreement.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Can they not just be designed so they are set back enough from the platform throats, that they are not a health and safety issue. But I suppose the problem with that is they would need more staff to supervise them. There is plenty of room at the station surely to incorporate them without impeding Wightlink if not I suppose it will have to be put off a few years until a time they can refurbish the station and reconfigure the layout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought there already was a gateline?

 

[Right Away]

Ticketless or people with tickets waiting to have them checked?

By your count I am a serial fare evader, likely to be caught up in a queue to have my ticket checked several times a month.

(ps. user of Cosham Station here, so doubly damned)

Ticketless obviously. Persons queuing to leave who are in possession of valid tickets (your good self included) are not ticketless travellers!

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought there already was a gateline?

Not at the Harbour. There are various fences and barricades between the main entrance and the platform face as you come in the main entrance, but not actual ticket gates.