SWR Metro fleet permanent withdrawals

[moley]

Well indeed. The last time we had a consistent service that could be relied upon was late 2017, a whole six years ago. Since then it's been strikes then Covid then more strikes.

Without any judgement of the reasons for the above it's little wonder plenty of people have abandoned the railways in the SWR operational area.

Completely agree. I now travel 1 day a week on the PDL. The service is so thin both in frequency and carriages that each time my boss asks me to come back to Town full time, I refuse.

As an example, last week, Tuesday high peak:

1745 cancelled
1800 was 12 now 12
1815 no longer serves Pompey
1818 no longer runs
1830 was 12 now 10 and has the pax from the 1818
1845 was 12, ran as 3 carriages - crush loaded!
1900 cancelled

The issue is that the metro fleet is stretched too far and the need to push 450s onto metro services is also shredding the longer distance services.

The poor choices SWR are making are pushing me and others away from the railway and encouraging home working.

You can say it’s the DfT, the train owner, manufacturer… whoever. As a consumer I just see SWR, who can deliver a service which justifies 5 days a week commuting.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

First Group reported this in their half year results last week

SWR has taken delivery of 400 Alstom Class 701 trains ahead of a phased introduction of the trains into operation in 2024.

 

[Snow1964]

First Group reported this in their half year results last week

Presumably if accepted SWR have to pay monthly leasing charges for the 400 class 701s and don't want to pay for excess old fleet at same time.

I am sure any sensible management contract limits the overlap to something like max of 15 trains (150 vehicles).

We know from Rock Rails accounts the manufacturer is providing compensation, so possibly SWR only pay any shortfall instead of full lease rental.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As an example, last week, Tuesday high peak:

1845 was 12, ran as 3 carriages - crush loaded!

A class 159 on the Portsmouth line? ( I can't think of any other 3-car units on SWR)

 

[brooklynbound]

First Group reported this in their half year results last week

SWR has taken delivery of 400 Alstom Class 701 trains ahead of a phased introduction of the trains into operation in 2024.

How on earth can First Group get away with that claim? 400 trains? I believe it's around 90.

 

[43096]

SWR has taken delivery of 400 Alstom Class 701 trains ahead of a phased introduction of the trains into operation in 2024.

How on earth can First Group get away with that claim? 400 trains? I believe it's around 90.

They presumably mean 400 cars.

 

[pompeyfan]

A class 159 on the Portsmouth line? ( I can't think of any other 3-car units on SWR)

I believe it was a 450 with a coach locked out due to a door defect. A friend of mine worked it

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR has taken delivery of 400 Alstom Class 701 trains ahead of a phased introduction of the trains into operation in 2024.

How on earth can First Group get away with that claim? 400 trains? I believe it's around 90.

I assume they mean coaches. There are 750 due in total.

 

[norbitonflyer]

SWR has taken delivery of 400 Alstom Class 701 trains ahead of a phased introduction of the trains into operation in 2024.

How on earth can First Group get away with that claim? 400 trains? I believe it's around 90.

The entire fleet is 90 units, which equates to 75 trains as 30 of them are 5-car. Perhaps they meant 400 carriages?

 

[moley]

I believe it was a 450 with a coach locked out due to a door defect. A friend of mine worked it

It was - front carriage of 450013 out of use.

Someone commented that as first class was down from 32 seats to 8, it might as well not exist. I thought careful what you wish for!

It’s clearly been running like that for a while as it had a pre-printed poster explaining it was out of use due to a train fault.

 

[The_Train]

First Group reported this in their half year results last week

We're going to need more than a few quiet MOD sites for storage if this is the case that they have taken delivery of 400 trains

This is a serious document with such a ridiculous statement in it, pretty much sums up the state of that particular group!

 

[507020]

8-455 will be used instead of 8-450 on:
2C69 2120 Waterloo-Reading
2C80 2309 Reading-Waterloo

Is it possible to know whether 2C69 21:20 Waterloo - Reading and return will remain 455 worked after the December timetable change yet as I would quite like to get in all 455 routes before withdrawal?

 

[TEW]

Is it possible to know whether 2C69 21:20 Waterloo - Reading and return will remain 455 worked after the December timetable change yet as I would quite like to get in all 455 routes before withdrawal?

They are indeed.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Presumably if accepted SWR have to pay monthly leasing charges for the 400 class 701s and don't want to pay for excess old fleet at same time.

I am sure any sensible management contract limits the overlap to something like max of 15 trains (150 vehicles).

We know from Rock Rails accounts the manufacturer is providing compensation, so possibly SWR only pay any shortfall instead of full lease rental.

Well they just pass the costs onto the DfT so aren't bothered or incentivised to minimise it

 

[Snow1964]

The latest ORR figures July-Sept (being discussed in another thread) show SWR cut its vehicle distance travelled by 7% compared to year earlier (table 5.1), down to 59.9m Km

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/bbrpxkon/passenger-rail-usage-jul-sep-2023.pdf

7% cut shows how much it is cutting due to withdrawal of its suburban fleet

The same quarter in 2019 was 79.7m Km (ORR table 1253), so now only operating 75% of mileage it did 4 years ago

 

[norbitonflyer]

The latest ORR figures July-Sept (being discussed in another thread) show SWR cut its vehicle distance travelled by 7% compared to year earlier (table 5.1), down to 59.9m Km

Curiously, the train mileage shows a larger decrease (8%) suggesting that what trains they did run were, on average, longer. Which is surprising given that most units withdrawn from SWR service have been 5-car 707s, with only a few 4-car 455s.

 

[XCTurbostar]

With the 701s still not in service, aren't we getting very close to potential heavy overhauls on the 455s? Its been 12 years since their last and 8 years since the Vossloh traction packs were installed.

 

[Goldfish62]

With the 701s still not in service, aren't we getting very close to potential heavy overhauls on the 455s? Its been 12 years since their last and 8 years since the Vossloh traction packs were installed.

Given that it just appears to be a dispute with the RMT over training holding up service entry of the 701s I would be very surprised if money was spent on heavy overhauls, unless SWR think the dispute will last a very long time.

 

[TEW]

The RMT were never in dispute with SWR over the training. The proposed method of agreement was not agreed initially but SWR quickly presented revised proposals which were accepted. As far as the RMT were aware the soft launch was happening last week.

 

[Goldfish62]

The RMT were never in dispute with SWR over the training. The proposed method of agreement was not agreed initially but SWR quickly presented revised proposals which were accepted. As far as the RMT were aware the soft launch was happening last week.

As usual different claims from different sources, but always one certainty - no sign of the 701s entering service any time soon and a gradually depleting SWR train fleet!

 

[WarrenTManager]

With the 701s still not in service, aren't we getting very close to potential heavy overhauls on the 455s? Its been 12 years since their last and 8 years since the Vossloh traction packs were installed.

Always close. You have to replace the bogies at 500,000 miles. And the units are still going to Bournemouth to have that done. And units have a de-scoped C6 when due. 5735 the most recent, the obvious thing not in scope is a repaint.

 

[TEW]

A 10-458 diagram has gone over to 8-455 for this week and next at least. Not sure how long it will continue, it is mainly a Reading diagram.
0550, 0920, 1250, 1620 and 1950 Waterloo-Reading
0739, 1109, 1439, 1809, 2139 Reading-Waterloo

 

[swr444]

458534 is back after it’s dragging brake incident at feltham

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

458534 is back after it’s dragging brake incident at feltham

It’s an oddity, that one. At one point, of course, it was actually officially stood down.

 

[Goldfish62]

A 10-458 diagram has gone over to 8-455 for this week and next at least. Not sure how long it will continue, it is mainly a Reading diagram.
0550, 0920, 1250, 1620 and 1950 Waterloo-Reading
0739, 1109, 1439, 1809, 2139 Reading-Waterloo

Unfortunately I'm travelling on it right now for the second time this week.

 

[TEW]

Unfortunately I'm travelling on it right now for the second time this week.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a long term change given the reduction in the 458 fleet.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a long term change given the reduction in the 458 fleet.

This is what I fear...

 

[WarrenTManager]

Two less 458s required per day, not surprisingly 2 extra 455s required........

458534 is back after it’s dragging brake incident at feltham

Traction motor failure not brakes.

 

[Goldfish62]

Two less 458s required per day, not surprisingly 2 extra 455s required........


Traction motor failure not brakes.

I guess that's rather rare given the good reputation the traction equipment has.

 

[Andy1673]

Two less 458s required per day, not surprisingly 2 extra 455s required........

I guess that's rather rare given the good reputation the traction equipment has.

They have not 27 working units for weekdays diagrammed service because they have 26 working units plus 458533 non-operational. Thence one-pair diagram covered by the 707s and one more pair by the 455s. So usually only 23 of 26 available 458s out (if we`re or they`re lucky).