SWR Metro fleet permanent withdrawals

[Goldfish62]

Despite the recent uplift in 701 services, the 455 situation now appears to have become so bad that an entire afternoon/evening diagram has just been cancelled "due to more trains than usual needing repairs". This diagram I believe starts with 2S47 and is only booked as a 4 car anyway! On top of this, 2C55 is yet again reduced to 4 car (and will later be forming a "crowd buster" specifically diverted to pick up football fans at Brentford...)

Looking at Journeycheck the inevitable hideous overcrowding on 2C55 is being mitigated by not stopping at Clapham Junction or Richmond.

The amount of short formations may indicate struggling to keep the 455s going. Disappointing for those who think they can go on forever.

Waiting at Richmond this afternoon for my train home it really was evident how mixed up things are now with the new timetable:

Reading: 1 x 455, 1 x 458/4
Windsor: 2 x 458/4
Kingston loop: 2 x 450!!!

 

[43096]

Looking at Journeycheck the inevitable hideous overcrowding on 2C55 is being mitigated by not stopping at Clapham Junction or Richmond.

The Clapham Junction stop would be pointless anyway as no one could board if it is 4-car. That train used to be a priority for 10-car (it was switched to 707s for some time for that reason) and ought to be 10-458 really.

The amount of short formations may indicate struggling to keep the 455s going. Disappointing for those who think they can go on forever.

Too many gone for scrap and no overhauls on the 458/5s are the root cause. It’s just gross negligence.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Clapham Junction stop would be pointless anyway as no one could board if it is 4-car. That train used to be a priority for 10-car (it was switched to 707s for some time for that reason) and ought to be 10-458 really.

Quite agree. SWT used to do similar when things were a bit short.

That train and the 0709 from Reading in the same diagram really should be priorities for 10 car trains and were going to be the first Reading services to go over to 701 from next month had the previously published rollout not been scrapped. No idea now if/when that'll ever happen.

Interestingly the current carriage working notices until 19 July show one of the two all day Reading 455 diagrams as 10-458/5, so this will presumably go over as further 701 diagrams are introduced. The single 458/5 in the mornings is also shown as 8-458/4.

 

[nctd2306]

I'll correct myself, two 455 evening peak diagrams have been cancelled entirely, as it would appear the one starting with 2V49 has also been sent packing, these diagrams (2C55, 2V49, 2S47) have been ripped apart with over the last few months, going from 10-458 to almost always 4-455 to now being cancelled entirely, regular users of these services will surely be getting more and more put off rail travel, which can't be a great look for the now publicly owned company and it's new timetable!
Apologies for the rant, I do understand that the 455s are 43 years old and on their knees but it is very frustrating that it's the same services and therefore same passengers getting screwed over every time, not to mention the fact that the 701 rollout has gone so badly that this situation should have been made impossible years ago!

 

[Nimbus020]

I'll correct myself, two 455 evening peak diagrams have been cancelled entirely, as it would appear the one starting with 2V49 has also been sent packing, these diagrams (2C55, 2V49, 2S47) have been ripped apart with over the last few months, going from 10-458 to almost always 4-455 to now being cancelled entirely, regular users of these services will surely be getting more and more put off rail travel, which can't be a great look for the now publicly owned company and it's new timetable!
Apologies for the rant, I do understand that the 455s are 43 years old and on their knees but it is very frustrating that it's the same services and therefore same passengers getting screwed over every time, not to mention the fact that the 701 rollout has gone so badly that this situation should have been made impossible years ago!

Spare a thought for those on the 17:57 from Waterloo this evening (4-car 455873) - left 1 min late but took almost 29 mins to get to C Jct - lots of issues out of Waterloo in the ‘rush hour’

 

[lookapigeon]

Spare a thought for those on the 17:57 from Waterloo this evening (4-car 455873) - left 1 min late but took almost 29 mins to get to C Jct - lots of issues out of Waterloo in the ‘rush hour’

There was a good reason, the Guildford service I was on started having smoke emerge from under the carriage I was in so an unscheduled stop was made in Clapham Junction and platform 9 was blocked for some time as the staff and fire brigade checked it out, before inching the train away in the direction of Waterloo empty.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

There was a good reason, the Guildford service I was on started having smoke emerge from under the carriage I was in so an unscheduled stop was made in Clapham Junction and platform 9 was blocked for some time as the staff and fire brigade checked it out, before inching the train away in the direction of Waterloo empty.

What service was this?

 

[swr444]

What service was this?

2F93

 

[DelW]

Too many gone for scrap and no overhauls on the 458/5s are the root cause. It’s just gross negligence.

Surely the real root cause is the abject mess that SWR made of the 701 procurement and introduction, combined with the stupidity of disposing of the 707s long before their replacements were ready.

But the list of SWR's failures and mistakes is so long and depressing that it's difficult to rank them in order of significance. How to wreck a railway in just eight years.

 

[Nimbus020]

Surely the real root cause is the abject mess that SWR made of the 701 procurement and introduction, combined with the stupidity of disposing of the 707s long before their replacements were ready.

But the list of SWR's failures and mistakes is so long and depressing that it's difficult to rank them in order of significance. How to wreck a railway in just eight years.

Always an interesting conversation / discussion: it's also worth pointing out the impact DfT / the Treasury have had on SWR post-Covid: pressure to cut costs (probably saw the early end/scrapping of the '456' fleet, for example), micro-managing the franchise (SWR were told they had to transfer the 707s etc.) - SWT / SWR went from a franchise that generated a lot of money for the Govt to an operation that's been really hit revenue-wise by the 'work from home' era

 

[Goldfish62]

Always an interesting conversation / discussion: it's also worth pointing out the impact DfT / the Treasury have had on SWR post-Covid: pressure to cut costs (probably saw the early end/scrapping of the '456' fleet, for example), micro-managing the franchise (SWR were told they had to transfer the 707s etc.) - SWT / SWR went from a franchise that generated a lot of money for the Govt to an operation that's been really hit revenue-wise by the 'work from home' era

We also don't know how much, if any, old baloney SWR sold the DFT about how well or otherwise the 701 rollout was going. If to say it wasn't going well were to expose SWR senior management's own failings then it may very well have been that they presented an overly optimistic picture to the DfT. In which case it would have been reasonable of the DfT to insist on the early withdrawal of the above stock.

 

[DelW]

Always an interesting conversation / discussion: it's also worth pointing out the impact DfT / the Treasury have had on SWR post-Covid: pressure to cut costs (probably saw the early end/scrapping of the '456' fleet, for example), micro-managing the franchise (SWR were told they had to transfer the 707s etc.) - SWT / SWR went from a franchise that generated a lot of money for the Govt to an operation that's been really hit revenue-wise by the 'work from home' era

Yes, I'm sure that some of the issues do stem from DfT mandated cost cutting.
But some has been SWR's doing. It's been said that the poor timetable on the Portsmouth Direct is a consequence of loss of revenue from high value first class season ticket sales. While the use of WFH will have contributed, SWR's severe downgrade of first class on the 444s must have had an effect as well. Changing a spacious 2+1 saloon to a couple of poky little 2+2 cubicles is hardly likely to encourage high income commuters back, nor is the continuing widespread use of unsuitable 450s on Portsmouth services.

 

[Bikeman78]

I'll correct myself, two 455 evening peak diagrams have been cancelled entirely, as it would appear the one starting with 2V49 has also been sent packing, these diagrams (2C55, 2V49, 2S47) have been ripped apart with over the last few months, going from 10-458 to almost always 4-455 to now being cancelled entirely, regular users of these services will surely be getting more and more put off rail travel, which can't be a great look for the now publicly owned company and it's new timetable!
Apologies for the rant, I do understand that the 455s are 43 years old and on their knees but it is very frustrating that it's the same services and therefore same passengers getting screwed over every time, not to mention the fact that the 701 rollout has gone so badly that this situation should have been made impossible years ago!

43 years old is irrelevant. Electric trains can last much longer than that. For example, the Belgian 1962 stock ran for 50 years and was never refurbished. Still reliable albeit very dated inside. The only change in those 50 years was that the outside changed from green to red in the 1990s.

 

[Bigfoot]

43 years old is irrelevant. Electric trains can last much longer than that. For example, the Belgian 1962 stock ran for 50 years and was never refurbished. Still reliable albeit very dated inside. The only change in those 50 years was that the outside changed from green to red in the 1990s.

Never refurbished, yet had a refurbishment in 1999.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

43 years old is irrelevant. Electric trains can last much longer than that.

Not when the parts supply runs dry! You have to remember that many components on the 455s are actually a 1930s design, such as the compressors.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not when the parts supply runs dry! You have to remember that many components on the 455s are actually a 1930s design, such as the compressors.

Indeed. It's no different from keeping a car or a washing machine going. Sooner or later the lack of parts availability and /or the cost of repairs will mean that it's time to get a new one. I don't understand why anyone would think it's different with trains.

 

[Bikeman78]

Never refurbished, yet had a refurbishment in 1999.

Not true. Units 151 to 270 did not get refurbished. Units 601 to 782 did. The last 1962 units finished in 2013. The similar 1966 units lasted until late 2024. So clearly spare parts weren't a problem. The 455s would be fine if they were still being overhauled. The 150s are similar and most don't even have a replacement on the way.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 455s would be fine if they were still being overhauled. The 150s are similar and most don't even have a replacement on the way.

Except there's a massive struggle to keep the 150s going to due lack and obselecence of spare parts.

The 150s should have gone years ago, but the lack of a national rolling stock strategy and rolling stock replacement being instead based around franchise bids means they're still around.

 

[nctd2306]

Following corrosion repairs, 5903 would appear to be back in service today, paired with 5727.
Will this see a (marginal) increase in availability or will another unit replace it in the "long term out of use" category for repairs?

 

[SEtrains]

Any updates on 455902 and 455909 which are both withdrawn?

 

[444045]

Saturday morning there was a special ECS :

5Z50 09+15 Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth Depot with units 5708, 5720 & 5750, going for exam/overhaul.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

SWR's severe downgrade of first class on the 444s must have had an effect as well. Changing a spacious 2+1 saloon to a couple of poky little 2+2 cubicles is hardly likely to encourage high income commuters back

The change to the layout of the 444s was specified by the DfT on the invitation to tender so would have happened whoever had won the franchise.

Indeed the new layout was actual part of a proposal by SWT as part of a direct award negotiation which didn’t happen but was subsequently included in the new franchise invitation to tender.

 

[Goldfish62]

The change to the layout of the 444s was specified by the DfT on the invitation to tender so would have happened whoever had won the franchise.

Indeed the new layout was actual part of a proposal by SWT as part of a direct award negotiation which didn’t happen but was subsequently included in the new franchise invitation to tender.

Yes, even eight years on there's still a lack of understanding that some of the changes that have happened under SWR would still have happened had Stagecoach retained the franchise.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I saw a picture of one of the DTSO’s from 5852 heading up north so believe it’s off to Kilmarnock.

If the allocation data to RTT is correct, 5852 is back in service today (06/06) as is 5734 which returned yesterday.

 

[dodger]

Saturday morning there was a special ECS :

5Z50 09+15 Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth Depot with units 5708, 5720 & 5750, going for exam/overhaul.

5720 is back in service today. Probably returned last Friday. Not sure about 5708 but 5750 was spotted at Bournemouth depot today.

Dodger

 

[444045]

5720 is back in service today. Probably returned last Friday. Not sure about 5708 but 5750 was spotted at Bournemouth depot today.

Dodger

Last Friday the following ecs moves took place :

5X95 12+17 Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth Depot ran with U.458426.

5Y51 14+32 Bournemouth Depot to Wimbledon Park ran with U.5720/5848.

 

[Class455]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I went past Wimbledon Depot this afternoon and noticed there were now two split 455 coaches in the sidings (the same sidings where 5868 has been sitting). Any idea which units these coaches belong to?

 

[Tickle]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I went past Wimbledon Depot this afternoon and noticed there were now two split 455 coaches in the sidings (the same sidings where 5868 has been sitting). Any idea which units these coaches belong to?

There are currently three units with coaches sent away:

5913 - 77838
5910 - 77831
5702 - 77729

All three are on the “depot sidings” however one is on the shorter road impeded by the bogie drop. This means only two are visible to the public.

 

[Class455]

There are currently three units with coaches sent away:

5913 - 77838
5910 - 77831
5702 - 77729

All three are on the “depot sidings” however one is on the shorter road impeded by the bogie drop. This means only two are visible to the public.

Cheers!
Also I did notice that 5868 is no longer visible in those sidings, so I assume it’s finally been moved into the depot for repairs?

 

[Tickle]

Cheers!
Also I did notice that 5868 is no longer visible in those sidings, so I assume it’s finally been moved into the depot for repairs?

Not quite, it was waiting for a motor axle however due to no ETA of a new one a bogie swap has taken place from 5909 (which has run out of C6 miles). Whilst waiting for the axle/bogie it was found in the yard with flat batteries. It was left until it was brought in for the bogie swap to be investigated. Unfortunately, upon powering it up the MA was found to be in poor condition and now requires replacing. A refurbished GEC MA is in stock however due to staffing constraints this hasn’t been done yet. It is now back outside however it’s “ontop” of another unit and not easily visible.