I have a folding bike which I use for commuting to work. Whilst entering Harrow & Wealdstone station the other evening, I was told by a member of staff at the gates that I would have to fold my bike as it was 'peak hours'. I understand that non-folding bikes are not allowed on trains during peak hours, but I don't understand why I needed to fold my bike before entering the station. I use the station every day and this is the first time a member of staff has said this. Is there any truth to this rule? Harrow & Wealdstone is not a major terminus and not a particularly busy station, so I don't understand it.
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Taking a folding bike into a station during peak hours
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trainophile
Established Member
Surely an unfolded folding bike takes up almost as much space as a non-folding bike, so it seems logical that they don't want them occupying space that passengers need at peak times.
I wasn't boarding a train at this point. I was just trying to enter the station. I'm not aware of any rule which requires bikes to be folded when walking around the station. Also, at Harrow & Wealdstone there is cycle parking at platform level. So you have to enter the station with your bike if you want to park it and catch a train.
parkender102
Member
Not sure of the layout of said station but I've been asked to fold my folding bike in some underground stations before going through the gate barrier. Assume it's because of safety factor of taking unfolded / normal bikes down escalators. Most people don't realise you are allowed to take normal bikes on the underground on certain lines at certain times. Generally it's the lines that you can carry bikes down that just have steps as opposed to escalators. i.e District and Circle line and also Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan line
telstarbox
Established Member
On my trains a lot of people with Bromptons take the p!ss during the peaks boarding with them unfolded.
Harrow & Wealdstone doesn't have escalators. Access to the platforms is via stairs and lifts. It's a relatively quiet suburban station in Travelcard Zone 5. It doesn't make sense to me why it should be necessary to fold my bike before walking to the platform. Especially since some of the cycle parking is on the platform, so if you had a non-folding bike you would have to take it up to the platform to park it. My guess is that the person on the gate had misunderstood the rule about folding bikes before boarding a peak time train, and applied it to all movement within the station.
Surreytraveller
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The gateline staff sounded like he was full of self importance and was just throwing his weight around
Melancholia
Member
Probably just a bored/****ed off/annoying staff member.
pdeaves
Established Member
I personally find it much safer to manoeuvre an unfolded cycle than folded. Folded is more cumbersome, wider and requires stooping to move. Depending on the exact design, you could also have to roll it on two not-quite-parallel wheels, which causes it to wobble all over the place.
I have no qualms about folding before getting on the train and unfolding after getting off, nicely out of the way of the general flow/ I just wish that people understood that 'folded' does not necessarily automatically mean 'safer'; in fact the opposite could be the case.
Being considerate of others is, of course, a prerequisite.
I have no qualms about folding before getting on the train and unfolding after getting off, nicely out of the way of the general flow/ I just wish that people understood that 'folded' does not necessarily automatically mean 'safer'; in fact the opposite could be the case.
Being considerate of others is, of course, a prerequisite.
Maybe. The staff at the station are usually very helpful, especially as I often need assistance entering and leaving the station because the automated barriers don't read paper tickets very well.
I had experience of one of these types at a station - can't remember which one, somewhere on the LT&S - when I entered with my Brompton. Insisted that it had to be folded. I always carried the National Rail cycling guidelines with me. He then compounded the offence by calling me a smartarse.
It's a Brompton, so it's relatively light and easy to carry for short distances. But it's still easier to wheel the bike unfolded into the station and then fold it on the platform before boarding the train. If I was at a major London terminus at peak hours, the person might have a point. But H&W is a suburban station, with few people moving around except when a train arrives.
3141
Established Member
That may explain what the member of staff told the OP. If he knows that people have taken unfolded or no-folding bikes onto peak hour trains he may feel the best way of preventing that is to have the bikes folded before they get on the platform.
He was probably wrong in what he said to the OP. How much does it really matter? It's something that could be clarified through Customer Services.
theironroad
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That's because there probably aren't any Southern trains to take your bike on, and they know you'll be leaving to take your chances on the road instead....
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/images/structure/css/CycleLeaflet.pdf says "You may also be required to fold the cycle before passing through the ticket barrier" (my emphasis).
bramling
Veteran Member
I'm not aware of any requirement for them to be folded entering the station. The various bans apply to them being taken on trains. The exception is moving escalators.
In any case, it's a lot less disruptive to move an unfolded Brompton around the station, as the user won't be stopping every now and again to rest, plus it takes less space particularly if you have a pannier on the front, as if you have to carry the pannier then you'll be carrying something in both hands which takes up more space. Unfortunately many uninitiated people will not be aware of this, and as usual life revolves around such people. ;-(
Bantamzen
Established Member
At the risk of being cynical and heartless, if a member of staff asks you to fold your bike then really that it what you should do. Perhaps there is good reason why the staff are enforcing such a policy? Perhaps there have been previous incidents, it wouldn't suprise me as some cyclists behave as if the railway was built specifically for their convenience (bloke carrying his none folding bike up the escalator at Leeds yesterday morning, I'm looking at you). I am not saying that the OP is such, but some do tend to use their bikes as battering rams to ensure a spot on the platform / train. And I have watched many a folding bike owner board a train with bike fully unfolded, secure a seat then attempt to unfold their bikes sitting in the doorwells whilst other commuters have to clamber around said bike.
If a folded bike is such an inconvenience to carry around, well that begs the question what is the point in buying one if you are barely going to use this functionality?
If a folded bike is such an inconvenience to carry around, well that begs the question what is the point in buying one if you are barely going to use this functionality?
Because wheeling a load is easier than carrying it, in my case my folding bike weights about 12kg, and is uncomfortable to carry for more than about 100 meters. The point of a folding bike is to provide transport from home to station, then station to destination. I've always wheeled my folder into a station up to the platform and never had any problem with anyone.
I'm surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) how many people, who aren't kids on BMX style bikes trying to act hard, who ride along the platforms - so maybe staff want people to fold their bikes to stop them being tempted?
It beggars belief that cyclists would think this okay, but I see it far too often. In fact, I see it more now, despite travelling less frequently than before, suggesting that attitudes are changing and it's becoming acceptable.
It beggars belief that cyclists would think this okay, but I see it far too often. In fact, I see it more now, despite travelling less frequently than before, suggesting that attitudes are changing and it's becoming acceptable.
Bantamzen
Established Member
So the issue is that it more convenient for you, as opposed to more convenient for other passengers? To be honest that's really your problem, not that of the TOC or your fellow passengers. For other people on the platform and train it is more likely to be convenient if you fold your bike up as it takes up less room. As someone has said, it's a first world problem.
It is entirely possible that at the station in question that there have been problems with other cyclists, leading to a station policy, or at least one carried out by some staff requiring people to carry their folding bikes as opposed to wheeling them to the platform. As I have said, I have witnessed numerous cyclists paying little or no heed to their fellow passengers when ramming themselves onto trains, leaving unfolded bikes in doorwells whilst they wander about the carriage looking for a seat etc etc. For all you know that station and it's staff may have received complaints which have led to this action.
And another thought occurs to me, perhaps users of fixed frame bikes have complained about not being able to take their bikes onto peak services but have then witnessed folding bike users happily wheeling theirs towards the trains. Perhaps it is just a reaction from staff fed up of getting it in the neck from people? They are after all only human. But the bottom line is, if have to carry it then do so, and if this is an issue then perhaps you need to rethink using them? Personally I'd be grateful that they are still allowed onboard, if TOCs wanted to be really pedantic they could just ban all bikes on peaks regardless of them being foldable or not.
Actually I have a Brompton which I have carried onto trains where there are no restrictions for any bicycles (even non-folding types) as well as on the deep tubes in central London where folded cycles are permitted even in the peak. If the rules insist on it being carried, I do so although mine has additional very small wheels that allow it to be pulled along a smooth surface even when folded.
When I do carry it folded it is wrapped in a nylon cover that makes it just another piece of luggage, so providing that it fits within the dimensions of approved luggage in accordance with the NRCoT, it is allowed on any train that a same sized suitcase etc. is.
Why do so many people assume that rules or requests by staff that they personally don't agree with, shouldn't apply to them, especially when they are getting their road vehicle transported at the expense of other fare-paying passengers?
The way mine folds the chain is on the outside, now I dont like the chain against me, so have it on the otherside. That means it can catch other passengers. If I am carrying it, it is less noticeable, if I am wheeling it other passengers can see it better and keep clear!
Then wrap it in a cover. You haven't said what make/model of bike you have but lightweight covers are available for most of them.
bramling
Veteran Member
The point is that the Brompton is easier is move around when it's unfolded. This means that it's in *everyone*'s interest for this to be the case, as there's less chance of it getting in the way.
As to the point about buying one, the main reason is so that it can be stored in a small space when required - for example on trains, in car, at home, in the office, etc. I'd have thought that's pretty obvious, someone is never going to buy one to carry around with them. Whilst they're not horrendously heavy, they're heavy enough that it's a pain to carry over anything beyond a couple of hundred yards - especially if you have other stuff to carry too (bear in mind the front panniers can carry *very* heavy loads, which is another reason for having the bike).
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If we're going to do that, then let's ban lots of other items which people bring with them which could conceivably get in the way. Suitcases and backpacks for a start, and pushchairs.
How many does one see in a cover? What a pain in the ass that would be.
Doesnt really worry me, if I have to fold it I have to fold it, and I'll carry it. Otherwise I'll push it to the platform and fold it before boarding.
Mind you its a bit irrelevant at the moment as I was driven in to by a car recently and the impact has written the bike off so shanks pony for me until it is replaced.
The bigger issue is probably the number of full sized bikes carried in contravention of TOCs bike policies, and the non-compact folding ones.
fairysdad
Member
Interestingly, I was at Waterloo the other day, going up the escalators from McDonalds to the concourse, at the tail end of the evening rush hour. The person in front of me had a Brompton bike, and with practiced hand swung it folded as he got onto the escalator...
... narrowly missing the person to our left climbing the escalator.
(I try to not bias myself against cyclists, I really do, but when I see this sort of thing happen, or cyclists hitting pedestrians because they've flouted traffic laws like red traffic lights or one-way streets, I do find it hard not to...)
... narrowly missing the person to our left climbing the escalator.
(I try to not bias myself against cyclists, I really do, but when I see this sort of thing happen, or cyclists hitting pedestrians because they've flouted traffic laws like red traffic lights or one-way streets, I do find it hard not to...)
no harm in asking to fold it up at the barrier, its probably a case of someone said they would fold it up before they got on the train and then didn't which consequently ruined it for everyone.
Its not as if you can ride them on the platform anyway
Its not as if you can ride them on the platform anyway
bramling
Veteran Member
... which doesn't avoid the potential problem of someone then deciding to unfold it before boarding the train.
No, but you can walk with it - which, as described elsewhere, it a lot easier - and gets in the way much less particularly if other items are being carried.
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